"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[morricab]

I am with you on this one…… the O/96 does scale and space that completely belies its size. I am playing them in a living room that is almost 600 SQ feet and it fills every inch of that better than my previous speaker.

Hi Sujay, so the Devores are just a stopgap to Marten speakers? Why Marten speakers?

 

[Lagonda]

For some reason I assume that multi-driver, complex crossover designs make it difficult, if not impossible, to maintain phase coherence.

Not really, the crossovers are there to exact some kind of coherence in phase and tonality, not always successfully ! They do make the speakers harder to drive though.

 

[morricab]

Not really, the crossovers are there to exact some kind of coherence in phase and tonality, not always successfully ! They do make the speakers harder to drive though.

Well one thing is clear, the more drivers and more complexity you add to a speaker the more likely it is that the blend is unsuccessful...and likely never to be as good as a simpler two-way or less design.

 

[Lagonda]

Well one thing is clear, the more drivers and more complexity you add to a speaker the more likely it is that the blend is unsuccessful...and likely never to be as good as a simpler two-way or less design.

And a two way design has most likely less impact in the deep bass region, making it much easier to integrate into even small rooms

 

[bonzo75]

And a two way design has most likely less impact in the deep bass region, making it much easier to integrate into even small rooms

depends, a 2-way like Altec 817 with two 15 inch woofers horn loaded over 105 db and their associated ports has more.

it is very easy to get higher impact by enclosing a woofer in a cabinet and letting it boom away with no coordination to the drivers above.

quality bass, Vs higher decibel bass, deeper bass, bass on recording, there are various types of bass. There is no denying that Wilson will have louder, deeper bass than an O96

 

[Lagonda]

depends, a 2-way like Altec 817 with two 15 inch woofers horn loaded over 105 db has more.

it is very easy to get higher impact by enclosing a woofer in a cabinet and letting it boom away with no coordination to the drivers above.

quality bass, Vs higher decibel bass, deeper bass, bass on recording, there are various types of bass. There is no denying that Wilson will have louder, deeper bass than an O96

I have personally never heard a Wilson speaker i liked, even among the smaller models, i have not gone out of my way to listen to them all though. I have not liked many ported speakers in general, the ports in MBL 101's are not typical ports

 

[bonzo75]

I have personally never heard a Wilson speaker i liked,

there aren’t any good ones. Just another problem with the hifi industry and the hobby how it became so popular at the cost of better speakers. In cones Avalon, Stenheim, and Zellaton are far superior, with Stenheim also having the bass impact plus bass quality. these also have a price tag to retain bragging rights, if someone wants to Pooh Pooh Devore and audionec on size, or Devore on price

 

[abeidrov]

We had previously reports on Caelin moving from Wilson Sasha to Devore O96, and Howie moving from Divin Noblesse to tannoy Westminster to AN-E.

Now Sujay (he doesn’t last much but can be PMed on the forum) moved from Rockport Avior to Devore orangutans. He still has his Burmester set of electronics with Lampi for digital and AMG as TT.

he reported that he is getting a much better soundstage, bass, and tone. Good time to reiterate that after 18 months or so of audition the late Art Dudley ended up buying the Devore orangutan and said that Bonham was the best he heard on these speakers. Am sure Sujay will get a further uptick when he replaces with low watt amps. Those who own Wilson Alexia, Alexandria and XVXes will get similar benefit if they move to Devores. They can easily afford this test without selling off, just buy a used O96 and sell it back in the used market if you do not like it. You won’t lose much if anything.

I am sure that O/96 are great speakers, but you mentioned several times, that they need a substantial space to breathe. Not everyone has it. My Sashas are placed in the living room and quite close to the rear wall on one side, maybe less than half a meter. They are the only speakers among the ones I’ve tried in my room (Montana, VSA, Kharma), that did not have a boomy bass.

 

[bonzo75]

I am sure that O/96 are great speakers, but you mentioned several times, that they need a substantial space to breathe. Not everyone has it. My Sashas are placed in the living room and quite close to the rear wall on one side, maybe less than half a meter. They are the only speakers among the ones I’ve tried in my room (Montana, VSA, Kharma), that did not have a boomy bass.

don’t you have CH precision now? CH with Stenheim do very well in small rooms. There is a very good such system in London

 

[Lagonda]

there aren’t any good ones. Just another problem with the hifi industry and the hobby how it became so popular at the cost of better speakers. In cones Avalon, Stenheim, and Zellaton are far superior, with Stenheim also having the bass impact plus bass quality. these also have a price tag to retain bragging rights, if someone wants to Pooh Pooh Devore and audionec on size, or Devore on price

I have never even heard a Devore speaker or had the chance to Pooh Pooh on one !

 

[Johan K]

I have never even heard a Devore speaker or had the chance to Pooh Pooh on one !

Me neither - poo poo on any speaker for that matter?!!

 

[bonzo75]

I am sure that O/96 are great speakers, but you mentioned several times, that they need a substantial space to breathe. Not everyone has it. My Sashas are placed in the living room and quite close to the rear wall on one side, maybe less than half a meter. They are the only speakers among the ones I’ve tried in my room (Montana, VSA, Kharma), that did not have a boomy bass.

the question is why, after being in Russia did you chase these speakers?

 

[abeidrov]

don’t you have CH precision now? CH with Stenheim do very well in small rooms. There is a very good such system in London

It is not a question of amplification and I do not have CH as an amp. My exact system is listed in the signature. This is not my point. Not everyone is blessed with a dedicated listening space. In my view WA speakers are one of the few speakers that are well integrated in a typical living space. Are you sure that Stenheim can be placed close to rear walls? Should I spend $30 to 50K blindly without any assurance that the speakers would work in my room?

 

[bonzo75]

I am sure that O/96 are great speakers, but you mentioned several times, that they need a substantial space to breathe. Not everyone has it. My Sashas are placed in the living room and quite close to the rear wall on one side, maybe less than half a meter. They are the only speakers among the ones I’ve tried in my room (Montana, VSA, Kharma), that did not have a boomy bass.

this is actually quite fair and how most people buy audio. I have nothing against this and appreciate what you say. My issue is when someone like Lee tries to put in talking points that obviously it is a Wilson and Alexx is 70k, XVX rocket price, how can it not be better, it is the cutting edge of Elon musk’s and Bezos’ rocket science

 

[abeidrov]

the question is why, after being in Russia did you chase these speakers?

Not sure I understand the question. I’ve auditioned several speakers (those few that were available for audition) and chose the best sounding to my ears. By the way, the complex Sashas were the closest sounding to my Coincident Total Victory V speakers, which are high sensitive, simple crossover design.

 

[bonzo75]

Not sure I understand the question. I’ve auditioned several speakers (those few that were available for audition) and chose the best sounding to my ears. By the way, the complex Sashas were the closest sounding to my Coincident Total Victory V speakers, which are by the way high sensitive, simple crossover design.

there are many poor efficient speakers too. I don’t know how the coincident is so can’t comment

my point was that Russia has some really good set ups and knowledgable audiophiles, you don’t need to look that far west. Just that they won’t be on American forums which has exciting drama

 

[microstrip]

I don’t mind if people don’t prefer Wilson Audio designs as that can be a personal preference thing. But to call a great achievement like the XVX Chronosonic a bad design is way off base.

It makes me wonder if you heard a properly set up pair. I auditioned a pair with Hugh at Paragon and they sounded spectacularly good to my ears.

Lee,

IMO regular Wilson Audio bashing is a great calming sport. It helps some people in WBF to keep their blood pressure low.

We should be happy that they come to life from time to time - it just shows that this an hobby ruled by preference and sometimes jealousy of success.

The UK and my country are privileged spaces - the Wilson's and the Devore are handled by the same distributor, who has large, medium and small sized listening rooms and we can listen to them easily.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Lee,

IMO regular Wilson Audio bashing is a great calming sport. It helps some people in WBF to keep their blood pressure low.

We should be happy that they come to life from time to time - it just shows that this an hobby ruled by preference and sometimes jealousy of success.

The UK and my country are privileged spaces - the Wilson's and the Devore are handled by the same distributor, who has large, medium and small sized listening rooms and we can listen to them easily.

So we just have to swallow the certain magazine propaganda that Wilson XVXs / Nagra was best of show lol .
Let them promote other brands well , so its a fair playing field

Magazine is my master

 

[Ron Resnick]

Spoken like a guy who has not really heard the Devore enough, maybe once. It needs a big room, not small. You need space from the front wall and sides. You react visually, i.e. Because the speaker is small, it needs a small room.

The things "that are not important or you". It does size and scale better than most tall speakers. In your mind a 7 foot speaker does a large scale because it starts at 7 foot. That is just visual based and works with poor recordings, which do not scale. If the recording is good, the scale of the recording is projected upwards and outwards from the speakers, and the scale changes with the rise and fall of the orchestra. Devores are better than foo-fi speakers at doing this. The scale also needs to be projected with coherence and proportionality, rather than sounding like 3 different speakers joined together to give the impression of extension. Not saying a tall speaker like Martin Logans or good restored apogees cannot do this, but just height cannot achieve that. Unless you are listening to poor quality LPs, which do not have scale on them to be projected.

I did not intend to induce you to re-litigate this point yet again for like the fourth time. I am allowed to not agree with you completely.

I understand the sonic up-scaling of small speakers via ambient information embedded in the recording. You don't have to keep repeating it. I have explained this point to several people, and I give you credit for this point each time.

Even with the ambient up-scaling I do not break free of of the sense that I am listening to anything but small box speakers. We can disagree on this; it's okay. This is my personal, subjective, experience-based opinion.

Maybe it has to do with the speaker height; maybe it has to do with the nature of the projection of sound from a driver that's two feet off the floor.

Of course speakers -- even small box speakers -- need space from the side walls and from the front wall. By "small room" I did not mean a closet. But, no, I would not put this small box speaker or any small box speaker and a 20 foot wide and 30 foot long room.

There is a reason we don't all have small box speakers. There is a reason that not all box speakers are small.

 

[bonzo75]

I did not intend to induce you to re-litigate this point yet again for like the fourth time. I am allowed to not agree with you completely.

I understand the sonic up-scaling of small speakers via ambient information embedded in the recording. You don't have to keep repeating it. I have explained this point to several people, and I give you credit for this point each time.

Even with the ambient up-scaling I do not break free of of the sense that I am listening to anything but small box speakers. We can disagree on this; it's okay. This is my personal, subjective, experience-based opinion.

Maybe it has to do with the speaker height; maybe it has to do with the nature of the projection of sound from a driver that's two feet off the floor.

Of course speakers -- even small box speakers -- need space from the side walls and from the front wall. By "small room" I did not mean a closet. But, no, I would not put this small box speaker or any small box speaker and a 20 foot wide and 30 foot long room.

There is a reason we don't all have small box speakers. There is a reason that not all box speakers are small.

one is you haven’t heard Devores, outside a show, or with proper amps

two that people don’t have small box speakers because most box speakers are poor, small or big, and with people like you not even trying to appreciate at your current stage what smaller speakers like Devore can do. Which audiophile here looking for a pricey upgrade went out to audition Devores? You continue to pass your judgement without due diligence.