"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[Lee]

the O96 are much better. XVX are such pointless toys. Devo-id, unlike Devore, of music

So you’re saying the O96 whip it good?

 

[Al M.]

Bass performance, resolution, and phase coherency.

Thank you. What exactly do you mean by resolution? Timbral micro-detail, separation of instruments (for example in complex orchestral music), or both, or something else as well? What do you mean with phase coherency?

 

[Lee]

Thank you. What exactly do you mean by resolution? Timbral micro-detail, separation of instruments (for example in complex orchestral music), or both, or something else as well? What do you mean with phase coherency?

Resolution: I mean the amount of detail I here (without being analytical sounding)

Phase coherency: the group delay accuracy provided by the adaptable drivers (moving forward and back and tilted up or down)

 

[bonzo75]

So you’re saying the O96 whip it good?

i think one is a nice speaker another is a bad one, you can price it whatever and make it as big as one wants, but lipstick on a pig and all that…fundamentals of incoherence between drivers, poor crossovers, bad tone, and boom boom bass do not change unless one is just looking for fake bass and tall height. Actually it gets worse with size

 

[Lee]

i think one is a nice speaker another is a bad one, you can price it whatever and make it as big as one wants, but lipstick on a pig and all that…fundamentals of incoherence between drivers, poor crossovers, bad tone, and boom boom bass do not change unless one is just looking for fake bass and tall height

I don’t mind if people don’t prefer Wilson Audio designs as that can be a personal preference thing. But to call a great achievement like the XVX Chronosonic a bad design is way off base.

It makes me wonder if you heard a properly set up pair. I auditioned a pair with Hugh at Paragon and they sounded spectacularly good to my ears.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I don’t mind if people don’t prefer Wilson Audio designs as that can be a personal preference thing. But to call a great achievement like the XVX Chronosonic a bad design is way off base.

You could argue my observation is useless as i heard them only in show conditions , but based on what i heard in munich 2022 and 23 i tend to agree with Bonzo .
I think the XVX s i heard in munich was the most incoherent wilson design i heard to date .
based on that yes way overpriced

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t mind if people don’t prefer Wilson Audio designs as that can be a personal preference thing. But to call a great achievement like the XVX Chronosonic a bad design is way off base.

It makes me wonder if you heard a properly set up pair. I auditioned a pair with Hugh at Paragon and they sounded spectacularly good to my ears.

I heard 6 Alexandrias too, an Alexia, some Sasha’s. None of these include at shows.

are you saying one has to hear only many XVXs to see Wilson get it right?

 

[bonzo75]

The best were the old grand slam X1

 

[andromedaaudio]

Regarding wilson i think there was absolutely nothing wrong with the titanium (oxide ) inverted dome .
I guess looking back the implementation of that tweeter was actually a strongpoint of the brand

 

[Another Johnson]

It makes me wonder if you heard a properly set up pair. I auditioned a pair with Hugh at Paragon and they sounded spectacularly good to my ears.

The thing that the anti-Wilson guys don’t get is that from the Sasha up, set up is customized for a specific listener. The higher in the line you go, the more likely it is that that listener wasn’t you.

Paragon does a really great job of set up for demos, and personalized tuning for the post purchase installation. You will not be disappointed if you buy your Wilsons from them.

But if you just walk into a room at a show, Wilsons are unlikely to show their best because the set up of each individual box was based on some generic average expected listener that will walk in.

This is why DAW originally insisted on installing his speakers in your room, for you. He knew that by allowing the different boxes to move, that most set up guys would muff it.

 

[Elliot G.]

Yes, these discussions seem circular because people generally don’t change their minds in the course of them. It’s a battle to the death, or withdrawal at worst, but rarely a concession of defeat.

You mention that people want what they want but whether they use them properly is another question. What, in your experience, is the percentage of people who use them properly among your client base, or is this something you can answer?

Matt

Hi Matt,
that’s a good question. I think this always comes down to what the client is prepared to do and what he will let me do.
In family type rooms there are always compromises and we do the best we can to mitigate them and get a good result. In a dedicated room we have much higher desires.
To give you an answer is maybe between half and three quarters.
On another point the XVX in Munich in my opinion should have mr never been played.
This was not a serious representation of that speaker .
i’m not a Wilson guy at any level but doing that i thought was really awful and did nothing positive for the speaker … one man’s opinion

 

[andromedaaudio]

In my view the Rockport LYRA / ORION and the Kharma Exquisite classic are a step above wilson and all other cone speakers for hat matter .
Only one that surpasses them is the top of the line FM acoustics active system but those are way over 200 K FM is music

 

[Lee]

You could argue my observation is useless as i heard them only in show conditions , but based on what i heard in munich 2022 and 23 i tend to agree with Bonzo .
I think the XVX s i heard in munich was the most incoherent wilson design i heard to date .
based on that yes way overpriced

My friends at Munich had very mixed feelings about the Wilson setups. I think you should hear them properly setup at a good dealer before judging them as a "bad design".

 

[Lee]

The thing that the anti-Wilson guys don’t get is that from the Sasha up, set up is customized for a specific listener. The higher in the line you go, the more likely it is that that listener wasn’t you.

Paragon does a really great job of set up for demos, and personalized tuning for the post purchase installation. You will not be disappointed if you buy your Wilsons from them.

But if you just walk into a room at a show, Wilsons are unlikely to show their best because the set up of each individual box was based on some generic average expected listener that will walk in.

This is why DAW originally insisted on installing his speakers in your room, for you. He knew that by allowing the different boxes to move, that most set up guys would muff it.

Correct. The nomograph is set for the listener's ear height and distance from the speaker. Sometimes bass ports can be adjusted too.

 

[Lee]

Regarding wilson i think there was absolutely nothing wrong with the titanium (oxide ) inverted dome .
I guess looking back the implementation of that tweeter was actually a strongpoint of the brand

I politely differ. We played my Texas Guitar Quartet recording on the Sophia III and the tweeter was definitely on the bright side. The newer soft dome carbon-tubed tweeter is a big step up in musicality.

 

[marty]

It makes me wonder if you heard a properly set up pair. I auditioned a pair with Hugh at Paragon and they sounded spectacularly good to my ears.

I've said this so many times it sounds like a broken record, but if Wilson's are not setup precisely for your ear height, they will be less than impressive. Ked is a tall guy. If he is listening to a Wilson set up that was aligned for a guy 5"6" it is no surprise he would be disappointed. He would be listening askew to the intended alignment that delivers a balanced sound since he would be getting a far more sound from the top upper midrange / tweeter compared to the rest of the spectrum. This would result in a bright, unnatural and unpleasant sound. A difference of 1" in ear height is a chasm for the Alexx V and the XVX. It is a known limitation of the design and it is why people who hear them at shows, or private installations that were set up for ear height not appropriate for the listener inevitably come away with very disparate impressions. If you look at the manual, you can see that Wilson labored over precision set-up in a manner that is uncommon for any speaker set-up. Nobody should expect to walk into a demo and expect the same performance if your ear height is significantly different from the ear height of the listener for whom they were set up for properly.

Wilsons are hardly unique in their requirements for proper set-up for the listener. Many electrostats and panels have a dreaded and well-known Venetian blind effect such that the sound you hear is very different if you move 1/2" horizontally off center. Wilson's and other D'Appolito (or pseudo D'appolito) configurations have their own Achilles heel in which a strict vertical alignment to the listener';s position is a prerequisite for proper sound. It just is. With respect to the Alexx V and XVX, when the set-up is right, they're damn good and can easily deliver an extremely favorable sonic experience. I would not be so quick to blame the speaker (any speaker) for being used differently than its designer intended.

 

[morricab]

We had previously reports on Caelin moving from Wilson Sasha to Devore O96, and Howie moving from Divin Noblesse to tannoy Westminster to AN-E.

Now Sujay (he doesn’t last much but can be PMed on the forum) moved from Rockport Avior to Devore orangutans. He still has his Burmester set of electronics with Lampi for digital and AMG as TT.

he reported that he is getting a much better soundstage, bass, and tone. Good time to reiterate that after 18 months or so of audition the late Art Dudley ended up buying the Devore orangutan and said that Bonham was the best he heard on these speakers. Am sure Sujay will get a further uptick when he replaces with low watt amps. Those who own Wilson Alexia, Alexandria and XVXes will get similar benefit if they move to Devores. They can easily afford this test without selling off, just buy an used O96 and sell it back in the used market if you do not like it. You won’t lose much if anything.

Why aren’t you buying a pair and doing the same thing?

 

[Audio_Karma]

https://schetl.com/

 

[sujay]

We had previously reports on Caelin moving from Wilson Sasha to Devore O96, and Howie moving from Divin Noblesse to tannoy Westminster to AN-E.

Now Sujay (he doesn’t last much but can be PMed on the forum) moved from Rockport Avior to Devore orangutans. He still has his Burmester set of electronics with Lampi for digital and AMG as TT.

he reported that he is getting a much better soundstage, bass, and tone. Good time to reiterate that after 18 months or so of audition the late Art Dudley ended up buying the Devore orangutan and said that Bonham was the best he heard on these speakers. Am sure Sujay will get a further uptick when he replaces with low watt amps. Those who own Wilson Alexia, Alexandria and XVXes will get similar benefit if they move to Devores. They can easily afford this test without selling off, just buy a used O96 and sell it back in the used market if you do not like it. You won’t lose much if anything.

yes, I agree the O/96 are real value without a shred of doubt.. frankly, they are meant to be a stop gap before I get my speakers which are on order. I was not expecting the devores to be this good especially with my Burmester monos. What this tells me is to take stereotype statements like “ O/96 don’t play well with SS” with a bag of salt. They are downright fantastic! And yes they are more open sounding than the Aviors and better or equal in almost every aspect except bass extension.

in the coming days I will be trying a first watt and another low power tube amp and let you guys know what I think. In all probability they might sound better……..but one never knows.

i Haven’t heard the Alexia V so can’t comment. And properly set up, I’m sure they might be better than the O/96 In my set up. The question is how much better? The difference in price is staggering…..

for one, I can say with certainty that if I were comparing the Avior and the O/96 today, all things considered, I will take the O/96 without hesitation. Considering that I am pairing them with my Burmester monos may sound like sacrilege to some, but all I can say to them is they probably haven’t heard how good they can sound with quality SS gear……..my Burmester set up is dead quiet I must admit, which helps the cause…..

When all is said and done, all I can say is im learning……and of course, taking my friend Kedar’s counsel a bit more seriously

 

[LL21]

yes, I agree the O/96 are real value without a shred of doubt.. frankly, they are meant to be a stop gap before I get my speakers which are on order. I was not expecting the devores to be this good especially with my Burmester monos. What this tells me is to take stereotype statements like “ O/96 don’t play well with SS” with a bag of salt. They are downright fantastic! And yes they are more open sounding than the Aviors and better or equal in almost every aspect except bass extension.

in the coming days I will be trying a first watt and another low power tube amp and let you guys know what I think. In all probability they might sound better……..but one never knows.

i Haven’t heard the Alexia V so can’t comment. And properly set up, I’m sure they might be better than the O/96 In my set up. The question is how much better? The difference in price is staggering…..

for one, I can say with certainty that if I were comparing the Avior and the O/96 today, all things considered, I will take the O/96 without hesitation. Considering that I am pairing them with my Burmester monos may sound like sacrilege to some, but all I can say to them is they probably haven’t heard how good they can sound with quality SS gear……..my Burmester set up is dead quiet I must admit, which helps the cause…..

When all is said and done, all I can say is im learning……and of course, taking my friend Kedar’s counsel a bit more seriously

Very interesting, Sujay! I know the guys at Absolute Sounds (who also created their artisanal 'Ten' which consists of Devore, Robert Koda and Elysium) really like the Devore.

Intriguing on your new speakers...what speakers do you have on order? Devore Orangutan Reference by any chance? https://devorefidelity.com/oref/