"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[Ron Resnick]

one is you haven’t heard Devores, outside a show.

Not true; I heard them at Russ Stratton's friend's house who is a serious audiophile with a fairly large dedicated space and multi-chair listening section. If I remember correctly he had multiple turntables.

He had a full suite of EAR electronics, as well as alternative amplifiers.

It is from this session that I fully appreciated the natural tone and musical rightness of the O96.

Even when I agree with you in theory, as I do here, I don't necessarily agree with you subjectively in implementation. Recall that I have my thing about driver surface area as an independent variable, irrespective of anything else about a loudspeaker.

Squirting most of an entire symphony orchestra out of one small-ish driver just doesn't really work for me.

 

[bonzo75]

Not true; I heard them at Russ Stratton's friend's house who is a serious audiophile with a fairly large dedicated space and multi-chair listening section. If I remember correctly he had multiple turntables.

He had a full suite of EAR electronics, as well as alternative amplifiers.

It is from this session that I fully appreciated the natural tone and musical rightness of the O96.

Even when I agree with you in theory, as I do here, I don't necessarily agree with you subjectively in implementation. Recall that I have my thing about driver surface area as an independent variable, irrespective of anything else about a loudspeaker.

Squirting most of an entire symphony orchestra out one small driver just doesn't really work for me.

so why do you think Ear is an appropriate amp?

 

[Ron Resnick]

so why do you think Ear is an appropriate amp?

I think it is electrically appropriate in sensitivity and power wise. I think I generally have liked Ear electronics in every system I've heard them in. I like tube amplifiers. I think Ear + Devore is a known and well-vetted match. I thought the system sounded great.

 

[bonzo75]

I think it is electrically appropriate in sensitivity and power wise. I think I generally have liked Ear electronics in every system I've heard them in. I like tube amplifiers. I think Ear + Devore is a known and well-vetted match. I thought the system sounded great.

Is this the 100w EAR? I have heard it with Zus, Tannoy Reds, and a lower model hORNS speaker (mummies), and don't think it is appropriate for Devores, which I have heard with Jadis 100w integrated, Riviera 50w hybrid, Silvercore 833c 20 watts, another 300b 20 watts, Mastersound 845, Airtight EL34, Kondo Overture EL34 (both EL34 around 30 watts), NAF 2a3, and Airtight 300b. I would only take them with the last two, and with the Mastersound if someone wanted a lower value.

 

[bonzo75]

Also, I assume you used Russ' orchestral recordings to demo? Does he buy quality recordings? You cannot audition for scale for the recording without having good quality recordings. The whole purpose of using Devore for scale is to play quality recordings through a simple signal path.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is this the 100w EAR? I have heard it with Zus, Tannoy Reds, and a lower model hORNS speaker (mummies), and don't think it is appropriate for Devores, which I have heard with Jadis 100w integrated, Riviera 50w hybrid, Silvercore 833c 20 watts, another 300b 20 watts, Mastersound 845, Airtight EL34, Kondo Overture EL34 (both EL34 around 30 watts), NAF 2a3, and Airtight 300b. I would only take them with the last two, and with the Mastersound if someone wanted a lower value.

I think it was lower power than 100 watts. As I have suggested many times you are much more particular than I am.

I am sure I would like the sound of the O96 with most, if not all, of the amplifiers on that list unless 20 watts or less were under-powered for it.

Why do you think 100 watt Ear amp is not appropriate for O96?

How could those 30 watt EL34 amps not sound at least good on O96?

 

[bonzo75]

How could those 30 watt EL34 amps not sound at least good on O96?

They kept out a lot of the musical information, did not let the recordings scale, and sounded like small (or is it big) regular boring speakers. The Devore is brilliant for re-learning some of our misguided notions in hifi, as it shows how important recordings and simplicity of the signal path are, and was quite an about turn in me looking for just what you have been saying is important to you. I actually changed a lot of my perceptions because of it.

 

[Lee]

No, they are not that either...sorry.

They most certainly are.

 

[Lee]

this is actually quite fair and how most people buy audio. I have nothing against this and appreciate what you say. My issue is when someone like Lee tries to put in talking points that obviously it is a Wilson and Alexx is 70k, XVX rocket price, how can it not be better, it is the cutting edge of Elon musk’s and Bezos’ rocket science

They are not talking points. They are my viewpoints and opinions based on my own experience.

Also, the Alexia V is around $70K, the Alexx V is substantially more.

I was fortunate enough to hear a demo on his personal WAMMs by Dave Wilson on what moving driver in millimeter increments does to the sound of different amplifiers. That and my own experience with Alexias is what convinced me of the value of the approach. Once everything is locked in for your distance to the speaker and your ear height, and the speaker placement is precise to less than quarter inch, then real magic can happen. Visitors of experienced audiophiles and recording engineers tell my system is one of the very best they have heard.

 

[morricab]

Is this the 100w EAR? I have heard it with Zus, Tannoy Reds, and a lower model hORNS speaker (mummies), and don't think it is appropriate for Devores, which I have heard with Jadis 100w integrated, Riviera 50w hybrid, Silvercore 833c 20 watts, another 300b 20 watts, Mastersound 845, Airtight EL34, Kondo Overture EL34 (both EL34 around 30 watts), NAF 2a3, and Airtight 300b. I would only take them with the last two, and with the Mastersound if someone wanted a lower value.

The best EAR amp I have heard is the 861, which is a 30 PP triode design... this sounds quite good. The 912 preamp is also quite good.

 

[morricab]

They most certainly are.

No, look at the data...they are certainly not. Ad claims can't hide the data.

A non-phase coherent speaker CANNOT be time coherent...period. The only exception is if DSP is used to digitally time align the outputs.

 

[Elliot G.]

I've said this so many times it sounds like a broken record, but if Wilson's are not setup precisely for your ear height, they will be less than impressive. Ked is a tall guy. If he is listening to a Wilson set up that was aligned for a guy 5"6" it is no surprise he would be disappointed. He would be listening askew to the intended alignment that delivers a balanced sound since he would be getting a far more sound from the top upper midrange / tweeter compared to the rest of the spectrum. This would result in a bright, unnatural and unpleasant sound. A difference of 1" in ear height is a chasm for the Alexx V and the XVX. It is a known limitation of the design and it is why people who hear them at shows, or private installations that were set up for ear height not appropriate for the listener inevitably come away with very disparate impressions. If you look at the manual, you can see that Wilson labored over precision set-up in a manner that is uncommon for any speaker set-up. Nobody should expect to walk into a demo and expect the same performance if your ear height is significantly different from the ear height of the listener for whom they were set up for properly.

Wilsons are hardly unique in their requirements for proper set-up for the listener. Many electrostats and panels have a dreaded and well-known Venetian blind effect such that the sound you hear is very different if you move 1/2" horizontally off center. Wilson's and other D'Appolito (or pseudo D'appolito) configurations have their own Achilles heel in which a strict vertical alignment to the listener';s position is a prerequisite for proper sound. It just is. With respect to the Alexx V and XVX, when the set-up is right, they're damn good and can easily deliver an extremely favorable sonic experience. I would not be so quick to blame the speaker (any speaker) for being used differently than its designer intended.

Although I wont disagree with your statement and findings I can tell you that what they did at Munich this year, particularly the XVX was much more than the wrong tweeter height. I can believe that the wrong height would adversl;y effect the total balance but I am experienced enough to tell you the issues were far beyond that. I have heard the speakers in a few places including Robert Harleys and what they had at Munich was a joke.

You do realize also that what you are describing is a very very very finicky product. THis may be a reason that they are polarizing.

 

[morricab]

Although I wont disagree with your statement and findings I can tell you that what they did at Munich this year, particularly the XVX was much more than the wrong tweeter height. I can believe that the wrong height would adversl;y effect the total balance but I am experienced enough to tell you the issues were far beyond that. I have heard the speakers in a few places including Robert Harleys and what they had at Munich was a joke.

You do realize also that what you are describing is a very very very finicky product. THis may be a reason that they are polarizing.

Is a finicky product still a good product?

 

[Elliot G.]

Is a finicky product still a good product?

that is a good thread all on its own no?
I believe all great speakers take time to maximize however some are far more complex than others to get there.

 

[morricab]

that is a good thread all on its own no?

Indeed. If only 10% of owners can extract the full potential then most will never know if it is a good product and assume it's not.

 

[Lagonda]

Is a finicky product still a good product?

Yes, but not for the lazy not willing to spend a lot of time and experimentation to get it right !

 

[Elliot G.]

Indeed. If only 10% of owners can extract the full potential then most will never know if it is a good product and assume it's not.

IMO what happens most is the almost never ending changing of cables and equipment attempting to fix a problem that is self inflicted.

 

[microstrip]

Although I wont disagree with your statement and findings I can tell you that what they did at Munich this year, particularly the XVX was much more than the wrong tweeter height. I can believe that the wrong height would adversl;y effect the total balance but I am experienced enough to tell you the issues were far beyond that. I have heard the speakers in a few places including Robert Harleys and what they had at Munich was a joke.

You do realize also that what you are describing is a very very very finicky product. THis may be a reason that they are polarizing.

As long as people center their opinions on shows and shop demos we will have long useless exchanges of arguments ...

 

[joaovieira]

In the last 6-7 years I’ve been moving and trying to get the best from my speakers. I use my living room with lot of glasses laterally. I was never satisfied. Tried many absorbers empirically.
Then I decided two things: sell the speakers and build a new listening room with top acoustician designer.
First thing he said: you never listened to what your speaker can do. Keep them until you have your listening room.
so I did.
many comments and conclusions we read here maybe are useless until the listening room is really good.

 

[andromedaaudio]

As long as people center their opinions on shows and shop demos we will have long useless exchanges of arguments ...

What about system videos ?