"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[JackD201]

All that matters is that you are happy where you are now Peter. There was that long stretch where you weren't quite happy.

 

[PYP]

View attachment 115118

You are mistaken. These are the people who hide their identity, can’t get invited to Cedar City, Utah, and despite their best efforts, can’t understand or achieve natural sound. They now roam WBF searching, always searching. The guy kneeling in the lower left worships the HIEND.

Maybe not. It seems to me these are the folks headed to their computers to post their gear on Audiogon. Not only are they paying the high fees, they are getting 50% of their investment because they just followed the advice of some review or guy on YouTube.

 

[rando]

A new batch of Natural Sound initiates recently returned from Cedar City, Utah ?

Not quite the shot this place needed. WBF used to be a source of surgically precise kicking a man while he's down that were actually funny. So accept thanks for inspiring me to watch Fantozzi instead of engaging with the dark ages of audiophilia last night.

(Overnight the Cedar in Cedar City has taken on slightly more humor.)

 

[morricab]

This is funny. I started collecting records at the age of 10. I have always considered myself a record collector first audiophile second. There was even the intermediary DJ phase. That was where the funniness started. We would conceal the labels so other "crews" wouldn't know what we had. Ah the days before Shazam and Sound Hound. LOL

Every day that passes out of print record numbers decrease in quality (from wear) and quantity. Collectors will rarely share their sources and sellers will always give priority to serious customers that appreciate the LPs and will care for them. There are some speculators out there, I've met a couple, but in the scheme of things I would think they are rarer than the records they sell. Again, it's a demographic thing. Nobody can beat father time.

Sadly these days, estate sales will give you the best chance to acquire good records in any large quantity. It's just the nature of collecting "antiques" in general. I've been able to get NM/NMs, sometimes sealed copies, owned be people who were simply music lovers with modest mass market gear.

I told my kids that if they don't have any interest in my collection going forward to seek the advice of three people who will advise them properly on the value but it is my wish that the collection go in bulk or separately to people that will try to keep them for the future. I said the same for my wine collection but it looks like the trend of my drinking them faster than I can age them won't be changing any time soon LOL At this stage I have slowed down on software purchases quite a bit as I play catch up.

Starting out, I asked my collecting mentor (he went CD) why he had sooooooo many CDs. He said "Son, what is the point of having a library where you've read all the books?". That made me laugh really hard. He had a point! Well, I decided to start reading more and buying less and going for only shall we say better vintages. Now if you expect me to say on a public forum what LPs I'm looking out for, you are out of your minds. I am not alerting any sharks! LOL

Would you actually have time to listen to 10s of thousands of LPs? I know I don't have that kind of time.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You either listen to digital and poor recordings expecting woofer colour to add to your bass, and speaker height to add you scale.

Or you find good recordings, which have better scale than any speaker can deliver, and let the recording be reproduced to get great scale and realism.

for me the second is the better strategy, the first is insert euphemism

Kind of a bad mix and match of assertions, you absolutely need the recordings for sure but no way you are gonna get proper scale from small speakers ..!

 

[Argonaut]

View attachment 115118

You are mistaken. These are the people who hide their identity, can’t get invited to Cedar City, Utah, and despite their best efforts, can’t understand or achieve natural sound. They now roam WBF searching, always searching. The guy kneeling in the lower left worships the HIEND.

Ahhhhh Now I see … Following on from @the sound of Tao ’s drone footage from downtown Ceder City… I finally made the connection with the planks of wood strewn arbitrarily around your “ Natural Sound “ space … They are in case of a Compulsive *Head To Plank Flagellation* spasm , Most excellent !

 

[Ron Resnick]

Problem is everyone upgrades gear first and then gets into recordings, by that time they are auditioning the recordings on the gear they have bought using bad records, while ideally they would pick out good recordings and then use them to audition gear

Are you saying that if people auditioned with different (i.e., "good") records they might have chosen different loudspeakers?

 

[bonzo75]

Are you saying that if people auditioned with different (i.e., "good") records they might have chosen different loudspeakers?

yes with some over lap. All gear not only speakers. Just like with different music or with digital Vs vinyl audition

 

[Lagonda]

Are you saying that if people auditioned with different (i.e., "good") records they might have chosen different loudspeakers?

Very likely, i consider auditioning systems with only good recordings going to far towards a perfect sound ideal. I like and listen to too much badly recorded music, when only the best recordings sound good you just loose to much wonderful music. Of course i would not want a system that makes modern pop or rap music sound good, that would be taking it to far !

 

[Ron Resnick]

yes with some over lap. All gear not only speakers.

I thought you meant that. This just does not make sense to me.

It does not make sense to me that the quality of the performance, or the quality of the recording, or a combination of both, would drive loudspeaker preference.

 

[bonzo75]

I thought you meant that. This just does not make sense to me.

It does not make sense to me that the quality of the performance, or the quality of the recording, or a combination of both, would drive loudspeaker preference.

i know it doesn’t make sense to you.

Don’t think of just swapping speakers at the end of the amp. You would prefer different speakers due to different signal path.

but sometimes, like Sujay said, even with same records and signal path the smaller Devore is giving him better and bigger stage than the Avior.

 

[JackD201]

Would you actually have time to listen to 10s of thousands of LPs? I know I don't have that kind of time.

Neither do I

 

[Al M.]

I thought you meant that. This just does not make sense to me.

It does not make sense to me that the quality of the performance, or the quality of the recording, or a combination of both, would drive loudspeaker preference.

I only audition with good recordings, but never "audiophile" ones.

 

[bonzo75]

I only audition with good recordings, but never "audiophile" ones.

you audition with digital recordings

 

[microstrip]

I only audition with good recordings, but never "audiophile" ones.

Well, it depends on the "audiophile recording" definition. WBF is an extremely dynamic forum - we are permanently referring to "audiophile recordings" and "good recordings", but people have very different views on real recordings of each class.

About 5% of my collection are "audiophile recordings" - for me this means belonging to known lists of audio magazines or know audio sites or simply bought at audio shows or high-end shops. I use them occasionally to evaluate gear or simply for enjoyment.

BTW, as my system evolved along the years my "good recordings" ratio increased a lot.

 

[Al M.]

BTW, as my system evolved along the years my "good recordings" ratio increased a lot.

Same here.

 

[morricab]

you audition with digital recordings

I seem to recall someone toting their Lampizator GG DAC all over for auditions not too long ago…any ideas who that might have been?

 

[bonzo75]

I seem to recall someone toting their Lampizator GG DAC all over for auditions not too long ago…any ideas who that might have been?

yes and that is to compare digital. I learned that to evaluate systems I need high quality LPs. I learn. You don’t. That’s the difference. You can evaluate a system through digital signal path, sure, and sometimes end up with an overlap. I am now into records first. That’s where the high quality sound with performance is to recreate realism.

Also, in hifi when you learn one thing and settle with it, you move on to another. Lampi closed my digital choice, nothing more to investigate there.

i want to close my SETs choice now and continue with records. Said that many times

 

[morricab]

yes and that is to compare digital. I learned that to evaluate systems I need high quality LPs. I learn. You don’t. That’s the difference. You can evaluate a system through digital signal path, sure, and sometimes end up with an overlap. I am now into records first. That’s where the high quality sound with performance is to recreate realism.

Also, in hifi when you learn one thing and settle with it, you move on to another. Lampi closed my digital choice, nothing more to investigate there.

i want to close my SETs choice now and continue with records. Said that many times

I’ve learned that you dropping an “n” from your moniker would make it more appropriate.
I’ve had high quality analog for over 20 years, I don’t need your lectures to know it is better than digital but only with really great recordings. Otherwise, it is more different than better.
Also, it is total nonsense to say that one can’t make accurate appraisal of a system with a good digital source and high quality recordings. It is quite possible they won’t be the same recordings. Good speakers, amps, cables etc. Should reveal strengths or weaknesses regardless.
It also makes your claims about what can be learned from videos very contradictory…as those are not only digital…they are lossy digital. You claim some amazing feats from those and have been criticised by some on this forum for it…so much for your consistency of thought.

 

[bonzo75]

I’ve learned that you dropping an “n” from your moniker would make it more appropriate.
I’ve had high quality analog for over 20 years, I don’t need your lectures to know it is better than digital but only with really great recordings. Otherwise, it is more different than better.
Also, it is total nonsense to say that one can’t make accurate appraisal of a system with a good digital source and high quality recordings. It is quite possible they won’t be the same recordings. Good speakers, amps, cables etc. Should reveal strengths or weaknesses regardless.
It also makes your claims about what can be learned from videos very contradictory…as those are not only digital…they are lossy digital. You claim some amazing feats from those and have been criticised by some on this forum for it…so much for your consistency of thought.

You should use that moniker given after so many years of analog gear you are not into recordings. We already discussed why yesterday. Try to go and learn instead of debating with me