More than the tweeter (by far), I really remember the cohesiveness and low noise floor the big XLF. It seemed like any loosesness, buzz, rattle, noise that one might have heard in miniscule amounts in any prior Wilson had been eliminated by a solid chunk of speaker that was entirely solid, immoveable, as force of sound as one...both effortless and complete in its depth of detail, range and nuance. It seemed differently voiced but in truth, i never really was struck by that, as much by the sheer solidity and wholeness of the sound as one.
In search of the next speaker
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More than the tweeter (by far), I really remember the cohesiveness and low noise floor the big XLF. It seemed like any loosesness, buzz, rattle, noise that one might have heard in miniscule amounts in any prior Wilson had been eliminated by a solid chunk of speaker that was entirely solid, immoveable, as force of sound as one...both effortless and complete in its depth of detail, range and nuance. It seemed differently voiced but in truth, i never really was struck by that, as much by the sheer solidity and wholeness of the sound as one.
Your Colosseum must be idling as the X1 is even more efficient than the XLF - 95 dB/W . Did you ever try low power tubes (perhaps SET's) with them?
Hi Microstrip...interesting that you should say that:
1. As you may know, Gryphon allows you to run full Class A ("High Bias), Class A up to a point ("Medium Bias") and Class A up to a lower point ("Low Bias"). For some crazy reason, at Low Bias, the sound is just not the same...but i cannot imagine i am pushing out of Class A at Low Bias with a 95db speaker. At medium it is difficult to tell sometimes, but eventually, the sound is not 'special' and then you flip it to High, and everything is back.
2. I play Action movies almost exclusively and therefore the volume control goes way up...and so do the explosions...so i probably am pushing the speaker a bit then.
3. I was "this close" to going Lamm ML2s...but in the end, i never wanted to worry about power, and i also wanted greater long-term optionality to go with speakers that might require the Gryphon's 'endless reserves' of power.
Speaking of endless reserves...if you think my X1s are idling with a Gryphon...no doubt you have seen 'Chuck' from San Diego who also owns XLFs uses the Boulder 3060 amp!!! I believe among the X2 owners i know of, i can think of the following higher powered amplification: Boulder 2060, Krell Evo Ones, D'Agostino Monos, Berning Quad Zs, and no doubt a few others.
What SET tubes would you recommend for the X1s if cost were no object? Lamm ML3? Aries Cerat?
1. Just for curiosity - what are the typical levels (read from the CAT display) you are using most of the time? As I am using a CAT now and you are a digital only user I can get you a rough estimation of peak power.
2. I was mainly addressing music, not movies!
3. I would love to try Lamm's, but three drawbacks - they come from the other side of the Atlantic, they have no local distribution and support and no remote for the preamplifier ... Although I could live without a remote, it can be a nightmare if you later want to sell it.
I had to own powerful tube amplifiers for the SoundLabs. The Audio Research REF750 were impressive, but for most of my music (ancient music, chamber and jazz) there were things that a REF150 could do better. The LP275M's (300W tube) are still here and will go next in the XLF's, but it is time to think about trying the other side. Would love to get my hands on a pair of Atmasphere's again - unfortunately the M100's being offered at a ridiculous price sometime ago are not available anymore! But all this only after set-up and my accommodation, that should take a few weeks minimum.
4. My experience with SET is very little - Cary 805, Pathos and Pass. But I am prepared to learn. If I had the time I would love to go DIY - I love the idea of a box filed with many transformers, chokes and bizarre capacitors!
1. Just for curiosity - what are the typical levels (read from the CAT display) you are using most of the time? As I am using a CAT now and you are a digital only user I can get you a rough estimation of peak power.
2. I was mainly addressing music, not movies!
3. I would love to try Lamm's, but three drawbacks - they come from the other side of the Atlantic, they have no local distribution and support and no remote for the preamplifier ... Although I could live without a remote, it can be a nightmare if you later want to sell it.
I had to own powerful tube amplifiers for the SoundLabs. The Audio Research REF750 were impressive, but for most of my music (ancient music, chamber and jazz) there were things that a REF150 could do better. The LP275M's (300W tube) are still here and will go next in the XLF's, but it is time to think about trying the other side. Would love to get my hands on a pair of Atmasphere's again - unfortunately the M100's being offered at a ridiculous price sometime ago are not available anymore! But all this only after set-up and my accommodation, that should take a few weeks minimum.
4. My experience with SET is very little - Cary 805, Pathos and Pass. But I am prepared to learn. If I had the time I would love to go DIY - I love the idea of a box filed with many transformers, chokes and bizarre capacitors!
Hi Micro...my most common GAT volume level is 22. 1-8 late in the evenings (after 2am). 12 in the morning. We are listening at 32 now on Sat nite. All movies are played at 52-55...but that is only because i notice that movie volumes from Oppo to Zanden are MUCH softer.
I would appreciate any guidance as to how much energy you think i am using! I listen to classical (solo or large-scale orchestral), Hans Zimmer soundtracks, deep house/electronic, blues, jazz, hip hop/rap, as well as loads of 'other things' that fall into various categories.
As for Lamm, lack of availability is an issue.
I look forward to hearing what you think about CJ GAT/LP275 with the XLFs!!!
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I disagree
First off very few ever sell their Lamm gear and secondly anyone who wants Lamm knows Vladimir will never use a remote
The GAT gain at position 22 is x.028 (-31 dB) - it seems you are using very little amplifier power - my guess is around 1W or even less,
I have to check more carefully. Was your DAC modified to have an higher output? I got the values from the Stereophile review and it refers 1.6V with 3kohm output impedance - a very low voltage level that will be a little attenuated by the preamplifier load. Position 32 is x.061 (-24dB). You have to go near 70's to have unity gain (0dB) . Each step is around .6dB.
The cj LP275m's are warming up!
The GAT gain at position 22 is x.028 (-31 dB) - it seems you are using very little amplifier power - my guess is around 1W or even less,
Position 32 is x.061 (-24dB). You have to go near 70's to have unity gain (0dB) . Each step is around .6dB.
The cj LP275m's are warming up!
Would the SQ quality improve depending on the DB?
The GAT gain at position 22 is x.028 (-31 dB) - it seems you are using very little amplifier power - my guess is around 1W or even less,
Position 32 is x.061 (-24dB). You have to go near 70's to have unity gain (0dB) . Each step is around .6dB.
The cj LP275m's are warming up!
Thanks, Micro! All the more reason that SETs are interesting to me as something to learn about. Perfectly happy but its always good to learn, particularly when its about something that really is relevant. As for CJ LP275s...look forward to your thoughts on GAT-LP275 and the XLFs!
I was a bit disappointed with the cj system in the XLFs. Soundlabs have 86 dB/W and the system was completely silent with them, using the XLF's (around 94dB/W) brings me some tube noise - the LP275m has 36 dB gain. Not exactly noticeable at listening position, but enough to worry me. Also it seems the 275W of the cj's are being used in their non optimum zone - I had the idea they sounded more dynamic in the SoundLabs. But I have had this feeling before several times - if we listen to tube rush in a system it kills the dynamics. As expected the old MV125, with lower gain, is noise free.
Just for fun, I connected an old Jadis DA7 directly to the Vivaldi - great sound, beautiful strings and presence. Never before I listened to the Strauss and Reger Sonates por violoncelle et piano with such enjoyment.
most interesting...i considered CJ GAT/CJ ART when we first got the X1/Grand Slamms...I thought the synergy/same designer would make magic. I still think it would...but yes, with gain and tube noise in the amp, that is [at minimum] an ongoing maintenance issue not only in terms of regular tube changes, but also tube noise on a more regular basis.
That reminds me that the GAT tubes are now showing more hiss on turn on (ie no music playing) after a year or so in the GAT. Minor...but there. Perhaps i should pull out the new pair of tubes this weekend...
We are always learning - just looked at the ART specifications and found that they have much less gain that the LP275m. The ART has 28 dB (x26) gain and the LP275m has 39.5dB (x94 ). Considering the tube noise comes from the GAT, this it the source of my problem. Using the ART should result in a noise free system for you and me. In principle it should be very simple to modify the LP275m to lower gain - just changing a few resistors. All I need is an ART schematic ...
You should try the Philips PCC88s in your GAT - I am very pleased with them.
Hi Micro,
Big congrats on the new speakers. I'm sure they sound excellent.
Can you elaborate on your impressions of how the XLF sounds in comparison to your previous X2,2's?
Big congrats on the new speakers. I'm sure they sound excellent.
Can you elaborate on your impressions of how the XLF sounds in comparison to your previous X2,2's?
great to know, and yes i forgot to add i was wondering about gain. As you know, the Colosseum gain is around 31db...but being SS if the CJ is on mute, i hear absolutely nothing ear to the tweeters.
I am sure CJ would walk you through it or send diagram? They certainly did so for our audio tech to move taps to change voltage.
39.5 dB gain is unheard of, wow. I have a 250W SS amp here with 33 dB and thought that was excessive, and it is.
My SET is 26-28 dB using 6SL7 > 6SN7 > EL34, and it's fed by a preamp that uses 6SN7 buffers. You can stick your head inside my ~105 dB sensitive midrange horn and hear absolutely nothing. My pre and driver do have a mechanism that cancels PS noise though...
They have been very friendly with schematics of old equipment I own and I would love to get the schematic of the current ART, but I doubt that they will send it to non-owners!
