Intrigued by JBL M2 speaker system .... Opinions please ...

[amirm]

Thanks for the feedback. You sum up the benefits well .

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am now officially intrigued. Frankly I never cared about JBL anything until that day in NYC which, I remind you,my biases quickly buried deep in my subconscious . I am on a search for a speaker-based system and this is getting more interesting by the day.

I checked out the price of the M2 package with the Crown ( warning NOT audiophile-rated ) amplifiers and it less than $20,000, complete 2 speakers, 2 amps... !! What gives? I sincerely would like to compare these in the same room with some audiophile speakers I like. I will set aside a budget to travel and listen to some horn-based systems both audiophile-approved and professional before pulling the trigger. I have the feeling that I will end up saving a substantial amount in this process. One of my first stop will be @Dallasjustice for sure...
Questions to those who know: Does the price include EQ in the package ? I suppose the amp have their own EQ features but what about the service? Who perform the EQ and how? If I were to go that route I will certainly use multiple subs as I am convinced it is the best way to obtain correct bass in most rooms thus would the EQ feature of the Crown amp needed. Can I use my favorite (audiophile-rated ) amplifiers in this case? One more question: I do find the rated sensitivyt quite modest 91 dB is nothing to write home about in my book? Was expecting more in that regard.

 

[dallasjustice]

Efficiency is rated very conservative.

You are welcome over at my house anytime. I live very close to DFW airport.

Hi

I am now officially intrigued. Frankly I never cared about JBL anything until that day in NYC which, I remind you,my biases quickly buried deep in my subconscious . I am on a search for a speaker-based system and this is getting more interesting by the day.

I checked out the price of the M2 package with the Crown ( warning NOT audiophile-rated ) amplifiers and it less than $20,000, complete 2 speakers, 2 amps... !! What gives? I sincerely would like to compare these in the same room with some audiophile speakers I like. I will set aside a budget to travel and listen to some horn-based systems both audiophile-approved and professional before pulling the trigger. I have the feeling that I will end up saving a substantial amount in this process. One of my first stop will be @Dallasjustice for sure...
Questions to those who know: Does the price include EQ in the package ? I suppose the amp have their own EQ features but what about the service? Who perform the EQ and how? If I were to go that route I will certainly use multiple subs as I am convinced it is the best way to obtain correct bass in most rooms thus would the EQ feature of the Crown amp needed. Can I use my favorite (audiophile-rated ) amplifiers in this case? One more question: I do find the rated sensitivyt quite modest 91 dB is nothing to write home about in my book? Was expecting more in that regard.

 

[joeinid]

Frantz,

I would love your opinion on either the JBL M2 or 4367's. I am going to order a pair of the 4367 later this year if I can move some other gear, so my interest is piqued as well. I was initially all over the M2's but got scared away with all the setup options and realizing a dealer might have to be involved in a more extensive setup.

 

[amirm]

Hi

I am now officially intrigued. Frankly I never cared about JBL anything until that day in NYC which, I remind you,my biases quickly buried deep in my subconscious . I am on a search for a speaker-based system and this is getting more interesting by the day.

I checked out the price of the M2 package with the Crown ( warning NOT audiophile-rated ) amplifiers and it less than $20,000, complete 2 speakers, 2 amps... !! What gives? I sincerely would like to compare these in the same room with some audiophile speakers I like. I will set aside a budget to travel and listen to some horn-based systems both audiophile-approved and professional before pulling the trigger. I have the feeling that I will end up saving a substantial amount in this process. One of my first stop will be @Dallasjustice for sure...
Questions to those who know: Does the price include EQ in the package ? I suppose the amp have their own EQ features but what about the service? Who perform the EQ and how? If I were to go that route I will certainly use multiple subs as I am convinced it is the best way to obtain correct bass in most rooms thus would the EQ feature of the Crown amp needed. Can I use my favorite (audiophile-rated ) amplifiers in this case? One more question: I do find the rated sensitivyt quite modest 91 dB is nothing to write home about in my book? Was expecting more in that regard.

The EQ in the Crown package is the one inside of the amps so yes, that come with it. If you get the luxury version, you get amps without it and then a discrete EQ box (SDEC).

Using your own amp is an exception that must be approved by Harman. The concern is that you can easily blow up the amp or the speaker if you/your dealer don't know what you are doing.

Note that the speaker's nominal impedance is around 16 ohms. So you better have amps with lots of wattage to be able to reach high SPLs. The amps Harman specs are that way although our experience is that it does fine with lower power.

As to sensitivity numbers, I tend to ignore all of that. It is at a single frequency and not really representative of what the speaker does across the full bandwidth of audio.

Let me say that in the setup with had with Mark Levinson amps (Model 53 at 500 watts/channel), it would peel the skin of your face.

 

[Mctwins]

Just installed the M2/Crown system in my living room. Had to upgrade the electrical circuit to true 20 amp to feed the Crowns, and had to remotely install the amps due to the fan noise. This effort was well worth it since the sound is sublime. Competitive with the most expensive Wilsons, Magicos, Rockports, MBLs, Focals, etc., in my opinion, and at a fraction of the cost. Just good science (Dr. Floyd Toole), years of experience (JBL), and deep pockets (Harman) geared toward industry professionals rather than wealthy audiophiles. Will keep using the Crowns since not sure the extra 30 to 40 thousand dollars for processor/Mark Levinson would result in significantly better sound.

You chose the right gear

 

[Mctwins]

When it comes to the M2. I think it is best to use the Crown's because it has the proper DSP setting to drive the M2. Or, use BSS DSP. The VTX line of JBL pro speakers and the VTX F15 uses the same transducer D2430K D2 and the recommended power is between 540-800Watts into 20 ohms. The benefit with the Crown I-tech HD is that one can set the Level Maxlimiters perfectly right among other things like x-over, delay's, shelf's, Pre and Post PEQ and so on..... but, this has allready been done properly.

Remember, the M2 is a true Bi-amp system.

I think it will be very hard to come close to the settings with the recommended DSP for the M2 with other options.

Just my opinion

http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/JBL_VTX_F15.v9.pdf

 

[amirm]

Indeed the DIY route is fraught with difficulty with M2. You should not get it outside of a system and without expert acoustic calibration.

 

[bromide]

Is there anything special about the SDEC-4500P where I need the S4500XLRIC cable interconnect? Is it some sort of break out cable, or does the SDEC uses non-standard pin out? I will have the 4500P one rack space down from the SSP, so I would rather not spend $1,500 on the XLR cables to connect them. I know it's peanuts vs the cost of the system, but these things have a way of adding up.

Also wanted to confirm I don't actually need the SDEC-4500X if I am using Blulink out to the SDA amps for all speakers except my 4 subs, correct?

 

[amirm]

No, there is nothing special although it is not an ordinary interconnect. At one end you have phoenix connectors and at the other, balanced. You can make your own. The cables they supply though is high-quality and if you are not good with wiring, it is a decent buy.

Don't hold me to this , but I believe you are right with not needing the 4500X. That box's job is to give you more analog I/O which you don't need.

 

[iansr]

Today I auditioned the Revel Studio 2s, the JBL 4367s and the Giya 2s. The Revels and the Giyas are great speakers, but the JBLs are something else. So now I'm thinking, should I jump all the way in and get the M2s? However, I'd want to use my own amps, so I need to work out what DSP system I would use.

 

[gandy]

Others on the forum can probably advise you on the best DSP to use with the M2, but JBL does support a particular DSP which they combine with Mark Levinson/M2 systems. A few months ago I considered the 4367s wanting to keep my existing Classe Monoblocks, but I decided to go with the M2/Crown system because the M2 had a superior wave guide, had an active crossover, and had the enormous power of the Crown amps. The synthesis of these characteristics provides a truly great sounding system that is beyond description. I schedule a 2 or 3 hour listening session practically every day and keep purchasing classical box sets, which is something I never did before. The only downside is that I did have to remotely locate the Crowns because of fan noise. Incidentally, you will need 4 channels of amplification with the M2s/DSP.

 

[iansr]

I already have suitable amps and using the Crowns is not an option for me. I need to look into the SDEC processor.

 

[Mitchco]

@iansr - if you are using computer audio, then perhaps consider Acourate software DSP. Here I used it to develop a 3-way linear phase XO, linearized and time aligned the drivers: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/c...e-alignment-driver-linearization-walkthrough/

If you like what you read and looking for more, I wrote an eBook that contains considerably more detail: https://www.amazon.com/Accurate-Sound-Reproduction-Using-DSP-ebook/dp/B01FURPS40/

Another DIY approach using MiniDSP and OpenDRC with the M2 presets can be found here: https://www.minidsp.com/forum/opendrc-projects/10584-jbl-m2-crossover-with-the-opendrc

Plus you will find many M2 DIY threads at the Lansing Heritage site like this one: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?37659-Project-M2-DIY-Thread

Using any one of these DSP products (I am biased towards Acourate) should achieve as good, if not better in some cases, as the JBL DSP.

Hope that helps.

Mitch

 

[iansr]

Mitch
Many thanks for that. I actually already own a minidsp 4x10 HD. I'll check out those links. Been looking at some YouTube videos and I think I actually prefer the proportions of the M2s to the 4367s

 

[tc4542]

Hi Amir,

Have you heard, or what do you think about the new SCL 3's and 4's being used with the M2's?

 

[iansr]

Hi Ron. Good to hear from you. My impressions remain like my initial exposure: explosive dynamics and delicate highs. My high-dynamic range drum tracks play with insane fidelity. Yet the high-hats are that smooth Revel like sound. And I love the programmable sound. Makes it easy to dial out room resonances. It is really what would happen if you joined the best of JBL Pro and Revel line.

And this is in our reference theater that is pretty well treated. Most high-end speakers don't do well there. The M2s just don't care about that space. They produce superb sound regardless.

I hear a lot of expensive speakers at shows and such and while many sound different, this is the first time I hear a speaker advance what I consider to be great. It is not overdoing anything. Just bringing more performance in dynamic range while not losing excellent resolution.

Everytime I look at them I want to spend the money and upgrade my own theater's front Revel channels to them. I am of course full of bias here . But I hope see through that and realize that this is a speaker that has impressed me so much that I can't stop respecting what it does.

I should share that my anecdotal experience from the audio society was that a number of people didn't like it. Gary played a track and said the sax (?) didn't sound like a sax for example. It sounded like a sax to me . Others hated the notion of the horns anything. So perhaps I look for something else in speakers than others.

It is massive amount of work for us to retrofit the M2s into our theater but if all goes well, we will be doing it. It takes 6 people just to move the acoustically transparent speaker away from the front wall! And we have to take chainsaw to the structure in the front to cut an opening for them! But my designer and I are so blown over the performance of the speaker that we will likely perform the major surgery to make it happen. While we are at it, we will be using large array speakers for sides and surrounds (the sound drop off is less than traditional speakers making them ideal for side and surrounds).

Amir
How much space behind them do you need?

 

[amirm]

Amir
How much space behind them do you need?

In our case they are flush mounted in a false wall. In a room, from speaking to Harman, the more space behind them the better.

 

[amirm]

Hi Amir,

Have you heard, or what do you think about the new SCL 3's and 4's being used with the M2's?

Hi there. I am sorry I have not heard them. I am asking around to see if anyone in the office has.

 

[iansr]

MItcho
Had a read of your article. Sounds like a powerful solution. Sometime in the next 6 months or so I will be getting a new DAC that is being developed by John Westlake that will have onboard a AM335x 1GHz ARM® Cortex-A8 with Linux Lite OS. Would that be capable of running the Accurate software?

Edit. Having done a bit more digging it seems it only runs on Windows. Shame. I'm not interested in any system that requires you to boot up a computer in order to play music.