Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

Like I said, spin however you want. You’re a big boy. We all make our own decisions. I said very simply “ could there be a three fold improvement”. It’s tough for me to say that as I’m sure you’ll say that’s my spin but what I heard listening to native XDMI with the O/IO combo was for my ears a true audio epiphany that sounded like Extreme with USB on steroids. Spending the rest of the day listening to O/IO with USB was hugely netter than the same with the Extreme. One would never go wrong if they follow this path but once again you can’t uniting a bell and for me again I’ll say it was a true epiphany. Beyond that there’s nothing more I feel needs comment until this settles in and burning more

C'mon. You know we were talking about entirely different things. I never doubt your own experience or feedback. To say again, one cannot get 25% simply from Emile's numbers (BTW, because the baseline is 100%, it should be 2x or twofold rather than 3x fold better... 300% over 100%; the increase is 200% or 2x). We all know numbers are often stupid and subjective, but they worked exceedingly well as marketing strategy.

 

Steve, on that gain situation; Would you consider playing around with some different tubes? I know you like the combo you have been using...Double Triodes...

I did think of that John but frankly i enjoy the tube kit i use now and i find dialing back the gain is a cheaper means to that end

 

Among the various experiments I plan to perform when my Olympus XDMI arrives, I'd like to revisit Roon PCM to DSD transcoding.
With the Extreme, the highest settings (DSD512, 7th order modulator) stutter.
@Taiko Audio, can the Olympus hardware handle those?

 

Among the various experiments I plan to perform when my Olympus XDMI arrives, I'd like to revisit Roon PCM to DSD transcoding.
With the Extreme, the highest settings (DSD512, 7th order modulator) stutter.
@Taiko Audio, can the Olympus hardware handle those?

Officially we don’t support realtime upsampling.

Unofficially it will work, but it will negate most, if not all, of the benefits XDMI has to offer. You may aswell just use USB again then.

The CPU performance we’d need to get XDMI performance from a scenario like that requires an amount of processing power which currently does not exist. This is hard to understand and even harder to explain, but it has something to do with the amount of packets which need to be processed. There’s a limit to amount of packets (interrupts) a CPU can process before delays start to occur, which we found to be very detrimental to SQ (and a mayor limitation of USB audio).

On top of that XDMI will show you, or rather let you hear, imho quite obviously, what the types of electrical noise created by the components processing these high sample rates do to your sound. We’ve opted to not squeeze the life out of XDMI performance by means of excessive filtering.

To be absolutely clear, upsampling is just not the direction we strive for to improve. The design parameters for an upsampling server are very different from those of a bit-perfect server. The very first commercially sold music server we were involved in was the Sound Galleries SGM2015, this was a server specifically designed for upsampling to DSD512, it’s a completely different design then the Extreme, and the Olympus moves even further away from this.

 

Officially we don’t support realtime upsampling.

Unofficially it will work, but it will negate most, if not all, of the benefits XDMI has to offer. You may aswell just use USB again then.

The CPU performance we’d need to get XDMI performance from a scenario like that requires an amount of processing power which currently does not exist. This is hard to understand and even harder to explain, but it has something to do with the amount of packets which need to be processed. There’s a limit to amount of packets (interrupts) a CPU can process before delays start to occur, which we found to be very detrimental to SQ (and a mayor limitation of USB audio).

On top of that XDMI will show you, or rather let you hear, imho quite obviously, what the types of electrical noise created by the components processing these high sample rates do to your sound. We’ve opted to not squeeze the life out of XDMI performance by means of excessive filtering.

To be absolutely clear, upsampling is just not the direction we strive for to improve. The design parameters for an upsampling server are very different from those of a bit-perfect server. The very first commercially sold music server we were involved in was the Sound Galleries SGM2015, this was a server specifically designed for upsampling to DSD512, it’s a completely different design then the Extreme, and the Olympus moves even further away from this.

Just being curious.
How do you like TODAY the upsampling servers / players such as SGM2015 or DCS Vivaldi upsampler
in comparison to Extreme or Olympus.
Sometimes those upsampling devices can produce quite impressive results in some systems

 

The CPU performance we’d need to get XDMI performance from a scenario like that requires an amount of processing power which currently does not exist. This is hard to understand and even harder to explain, but it has something to do with the amount of packets which need to be processed. There’s a limit to amount of packets (interrupts) a CPU can process before delays start to occur, which we found to be very detrimental to SQ (and a mayor limitation of USB audio).

Hi Emile,

What you're describing here is pretty interesting.

It would be interesting to know what led you to this.

I imagine Taiko Audio has lots of projects in the pipeline.

But what I'm most curious about is whether you're going to continue looking/searching in the current direction?

In other words, do you already have in mind what the Olympus mkII could be, in an uncertain future?

Cheers,

Thomas

 

To be absolutely clear, upsampling is just not the direction we strive for to improve. The design parameters for an upsampling server are very different from those of a bit-perfect server. The very first commercially sold music server we were involved in was the Sound Galleries SGM2015, this was a server specifically designed for upsampling to DSD512, it’s a completely different design then the Extreme, and the Olympus moves even further away from this.

@Taiko Audio does this deletrious "packet processing" impact also apply to feeding the Olympus highly upsampled files, or only to real-time processing loads as done by the server itself? And perhaps by extension: Is there a "sweet-spot" file "rate" for the Olympus?

 

To be absolutely clear, upsampling is just not the direction we strive for to improve.

Does the Olympus I/O XDMI DAC module contain a Delta Sigma chip?

 

Just being curious.
How do you like TODAY the upsampling servers / players such as SGM2015 or DCS Vivaldi upsampler
in comparison to Extreme or Olympus.
Sometimes those upsampling devices can produce quite impressive results in some systems

I have no specific opinion about upsampling DACs, so I have no opinion on the DCS upsamplers which I consider to be part of the DAC design.

I do have an opinion on how I would design an upsampling or a bit-perfect server, the SGM2015 falls in the first camp, the Extreme and Olympus in the second, which is indeed my preference.

 

Hi Emile,

What you're describing here is pretty interesting.

It would be interesting to know what led you to this.

I imagine Taiko Audio has lots of projects in the pipeline.

But what I'm most curious about is whether you're going to continue looking/searching in the current direction?

In other words, do you already have in mind what the Olympus mkII could be, in an uncertain future?

Cheers,

Thomas

I’m not thinking of a mk2 Olympus, depending on feedback the bulk of our future development will be in XDMI options / modules and software.

 

Does the Olympus I/O XDMI DAC module contain a Delta Sigma chip?

Answering the question behind the question: I don’t care if the DAC chip is Delta Sigma or not, I only care how it sounds, which btw is largely dominated by power supplies and I/V in my experience so far.

 

@Taiko Audio does this deletrious "packet processing" impact also apply to feeding the Olympus highly upsampled files, or only to real-time processing loads as done by the server itself? And perhaps by extension: Is there a "sweet-spot" file "rate" for the Olympus?

There’s a lot to that which is worthy of spending more time on writing about than what’s currently available to me.

But my current opinion is I cannot see any benefit to anything over say 24/96, and I actually don’t even feel 16/44.1 is a mayor limitation.

P.S. I’m sorry but I’m not going to debate the cons and pros of upsampling for DAC designs.

 

I did think of that John but frankly i enjoy the tube kit i use now and i find dialing back the gain is a cheaper means to that end

I would be very curious if just for experimental purposes if you inserted 6SN7GT or some other highly regarded triode as to what occurs with the gain situation and if you can bump the H back to 63...

 

I have to tell you that it has, as you know, always been my desire to pass the full signal and let my preamp do the rest but the sound even dialed back to 52-55 and my preamp gain down a notch or two is simply remarkable. FWIW I still have a set of 6SN7GT so maybe. The sound right now is amazing. BTW when I switch to USB I can easily keep the gain at 63 on the Horizon and the settings on my Lamm preamp unchanged .

 

I have to tell you that it has, as you know, always been my desire to pass the full signal and let my preamp do the rest but the sound even dialed back to 52-55 and my preamp gain down a notch or two is simply remarkable. FWIW I still have a set of 6SN7GT so maybe. The sound right now is amazing. BTW when I switch to USB I can easily keep the gain at 63 on the Horizon and the settings on my Lamm preamp unchanged .

what I forgot to add is that in my discussions with Emile on the apparent gain with XDMI and Olympus, he commented to me that the sound gain on the Olympus is identical to that of the Extreme and as I said listening to the O/IO was like listening to the Extreme on steroids at the same gain setting on preamp and Horizon. It 's like nothing I have ever heard before

 

I have to tell you that it has, as you know, always been my desire to pass the full signal and let my preamp do the rest but the sound even dialed back to 52-55 and my preamp gain down a notch or two is simply remarkable. FWIW I still have a set of 6SN7GT so maybe. The sound right now is amazing. BTW when I switch to USB I can easily keep the gain at 63 on the Horizon and the settings on my Lamm preamp unchanged .

I thought you still had a pair of them. I think I bought 2 pair off of you in which I will never part with. You will get and provide some valuable information if that does allow you to pass full signal...I also understand your apprehension...

 

Very interesting fact; USB full strength/XDMI dialed back...

 

Im not a rocket scientist here as to why that is the case as XDMI is a new entity unknown to all of us and from Emile's postings it is an interface that apparently dwarfs all present day interfaces. Hearing what I do gives me no reason to think that at some point XDMI could very well become the industry standard

 

In my room Olympus+USB >> Extreme+USB (the USB on Olympus is quite something...very impressive).

No XDMI in the USB path, so more directly hearing the combination of BPS+system configurations+motherboard/cpu (vs Extreme)

XDMI takes it up from there, eliminating USB and full control for drivers, etc (and is also BPS powered)

 

But my current opinion is I cannot see any benefit to anything over say 24/96, and I actually don’t even feel 16/44.1 is a mayor limitation

Agree 100%. I sign every time I see files in excess of 24.96 or DSD2x or more peddled by the recording companies. I listen much to colossal orchestral & choral music (the most difficult kind of music to reproduce) and have not heard any album in the aforementioned file-size excess that is better than some of the most treasured red book recordings. The huge size is pure marketing gimmicks to brainwash listeners that the bigger is the better or lure people to buy again and again the same classic recordings made in the late 1950s to late 1970s (e.g., Karajan's Beethoven symphonies, first Red Book, then "Karajan Gold," and then 24/96 and finally 24/192 files, etc. which I never loved in their various incarnations in terms of performance or SQ (SQ is mostly bad from the leaden Berlin Philharmonie acoustics or Karajan's wrong-headed control of recording process); I can foresee future DXD releases). I hope recording industry retire DSD (major labels have abandoned DSD) and limit file size to 24/44.1 or 24/48. I believe that big-size files, even if not upsampled, tend to degrade SQ for consuming excessive CPU and DAC chip processing. Perhaps that explains why I have never been smitten by those hi-res releases, including new recordings (e.g., Bruckner symphonies performed by Nelsons/Gewanhausorchester released in 24/192). Ultimately, it is the recording method and quality that matters the most - recording companies often apply compression excessively resulting in albums that sound muffled and suffocated.