Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

Tom, I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised by the 725! More control along with "refinement"...

I've already tried the 725, and while I was initially considering getting the 760+725+711 set, I found that the 725 doesn't really add much value, on the contrary...

Since the 760 was designed after the 725, it seems to incorporate a lot of what the 725 offers. For instance, like the 725, the 760 also has over 500,000 µFarads of storage capacitance.

The 760 was designed to drive the 711 or the 701 mono blocks.

What will be more interesting to compare is the DAC performance.

Olympus -> 725 preamp -> 711 amp
vs
760 -> 725 preamp -> 711 amp

 

I've already tried the 725, and while I was initially considering getting the 760+725+711 set, I found that the 725 doesn't really add much value, on the contrary...

Since the 760 was designed after the 725, it seems to incorporate a lot of what the 725 offers. For instance, like the 725, the 760 also has over 500,000 µFarads of storage capacitance.

The 760 was designed to drive the 711 or the 701 mono blocks.

What will be more interesting to compare is the DAC performance.

Olympus -> 725 preamp -> 711 amp
vs
760 -> 725 preamp -> 711 amp

Interesting, or go 727 with the 717's...Perhaps the 727 won't add much either...I would have thought the 725 (even though older than the 760) would have still enhanced further. Really good input, thanks...

 

Interesting, or go 727 with the 717's...

The 727 is quiet a different beast!
As for the 717, who knows... ;-)

 

The 727 is quiet a different beast!
As for the 717, who knows... ;-)

You are correct, and I agree 717's????

 

Olympus XDMI and Sennheiser HE-1

As I mentioned earlier, I lent my Olympus XDMI to @onlychild for several days while I took a short trip to the Smoky Mountains (where, by the way, a black bear decided to join us on the cabin porch for dinner one night). You may be wondering why there hasn’t been any feedback on the Olympis XDMI yet. Let me explain.

@onlychild has the best headphone system I’ve ever seen or heard - Taiko Extreme with a dedicated router and switch, Sennheiser HE-1, all powered off-grid by a Stromtank S-5000, grounded by a Tripoint grounding system, HRS rack, Shunyata Omega cables, and more. It’s an incredibly resolving system.

As I was driving to Tennessee, I expected a call or text raving about the Olympus. But... nothing. No feedback on the first day, and none on the second day either. Strange! On the third day, I finally received a long message explaining that, while the Olympus was maybe 5-10% better than the Extreme, it wasn’t enough to justify the upgrade cost.

We had a long conversation discussing what he might have been hearing and why. One of the theories was that, since his entire system was already powered by the Stromtank and off-grid, he might not be experiencing the full benefits of the Olympus. But I didn’t buy that. The Stromtank’s batteries don’t sound as good as the Olympus’s. The Olympus BMS and GaN regulation are state-of-the-art, while the Stromtank uses an inverter to step up low-voltage battery output to 120V, only for components to step it down again later. So, technically, the Stromtank + Taiko Extreme combo has several disadvantages compared to the Olympus.

During our conversation, @onlychild mentioned something that piqued my interest: he thought the Olympus USB was more dynamic than the Olympus XDMI analog, which he described as softer. Bingo! That was the key. XDMI has extreme dynamics, crazy transients, and everything you’d want from your digital source. The only way to kill that is through additional digital conversion. I was now certain that the Sennheiser HE-1 was applying some kind of digital manipulation. A quick search revealed that the HE-1’s analog inputs are indeed converted to digital to apply DSP. Well, that explained a lot.

So, here’s what’s happening:

1. Taiko Extreme USB → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog;
2. Taiko Olympus USB → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog;
3. Taiko Olympus XDMI → analog input on the Sennheiser HE-1→ analog converted to digital → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog.

In comparison, #2 is clearly better than #1, but not by much. However, #3 sounded softer and less dynamic, which makes sense since the digital conversion inside the HE-1 was negating the benefits of the XDMI.

To clarify what's going on: XDMI is engineered to minimize digital conversions, eliminate USB, and offer extremely low latency. Meanwhile, the DSP inside the HE-1 is doing the opposite - converting the analog back to digital, applying DSP, and then converting it back to analog. So, the final DAC isn’t the XDMI analog - it’s the DAC inside the HE-1. Not only does this add more digital conversions, but it also introduces a significant amount of latency (though this is probably moot since we’re dealing with another DAC anyway).

In short, if you own a Sennheiser HE-1, you’re probably better off avoiding the XDMI analog. Look for the best digital source. Olympus USB will be an upgrade over Taiko Extreme USB, but you’re entering the realm of diminishing returns.

EDIT: For some reason, I cannot locate the source I had that confirmed that the HE-1 uses DSP. Planning to reach out to Sennheiser to confirm directly with the manufacturer when I have a chance. Until then I am not sure if everything above is entirely correct.
If you have more info on the HE-1 please let me know...

The text below was one of the references during my research, but I just can't find it anymore:
"The on-board DAC handles conversion of digital inputs and processes both analog and digital signals at 32-bit/384 kHz using Sennheiser’s internal DSP, optimizing the sound across all input sources before it reaches the amplification stage."

 

Olympus XDMI analog vs. MSB Select 2 DAC (with MSB Digital Director)

I brought my Olympus XDMI to a state-of-the-art system to compare it with the MSB Select 2 DAC + MSB Digital Director. Three of us took part in the comparison: the host, guest #1 (me), and guest #2. The host and I met around 10:30 am, guest #2 joined a little later, and we finished close to 6 pm. We got so carried away that we even forgot to take a lunch break!

I won’t go into detail about the system, but it was phenomenal, with top-tier components and meticulous attention to every detail - exceptional power configuration, a custom built room within a room, excellent room treatment, reference-level speakers, amplifiers, cables, racks, and more. It was truly a dream setup.

The digital source was a Taiko Extreme USB (with the Taiko USB card) connected to the MSB Digital Director via MSB’s ProISL interface, which then fed the MSB Select 2 DAC. The Select 2 DAC was connected to a fully balanced preamp with top-quality XLR cables. As far as I understand, this fully balanced reference level preamp really shines with balanced connections, so the Olympus XDMI’s analog output, being RCA, might have been at a slight disadvantage from the start. Additionally, the MSB components were placed on HRS platforms, while the Olympus was not.

We started by warming up with the Extreme + MSB combo. It sounded pretty good. Then we switched to the Olympus XDMI analog. Hmm, it sounded different but not necessarily better to me. I felt the bass was better, but we seemed to lose some magic with the Olympus XDMI analog. Something wasn’t right. Then I remembered - I had left the XDMI battery power supply in "charging" mode. I quickly opened the BPS app and switched it from "charging" mode to "auto". Wow, what a difference! Much better.

Now, here are my thoughts - just my subjective opinion, of course. YMMV.

For me, it was hard to go back to the Extreme - MSB after hearing the Olympus XDMI analog in that system.

The first thing that stood out was how much better the bass was with the Olympus XDMI analog. All three of us agreed on that. There was noticeably more air around the instruments with XDMI, and again, all three of us concurred. The decay of each instrument was more pronounced with XDMI - fast, precise, and specific to each instrument, making you feel as you were right in the room with the musicians.

We noticed a bit of shimmer in the highs from the MSB. To me, it sounded brighter, though I didn't feel this was due to extra detail retrieval. In my opinion, it was brighter and leaner, with some veiling in the bass and mid-bass regions. Some people may actually prefer that sound - it’s more of the typical "HiFi" presentation that you often hear at shows and stores.

Next to the Olympus XDMI, the Extreme + MSB combo sounded lean. Interestingly, when we connected the Olympus via USB to the MSB, that lean sound disappeared for me, but I could still detect digital artifacts - the kind that make people gravitate toward analog sources.

One of the tracks we played was "Louis Armstrong - Duke’s Place (1990 Remaster)" (Qobuz streaming). I can vividly recall the difference between the MSB and XDMI analog on this track. To my ears, the double bass with the MSB sounded veiled and boomy. With XDMI analog, it was lively/playful/toe-tapping. That double bass is the foundation of the track, and when the system plays it right, you stop analyzing and simply enjoy the music. What I heard from XDMI was engaging and immersive music. In contrast, the MSB sounded slightly more digital to me and felt more analytical in presentation.

Here’s how each of us personally ranked the three presentations:

Host:

1. Olympus XDMI analog - best
2. Olympus USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - second best
3. Taiko Extreme USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - his third preference
   (By the way, he mentioned his MSB Select 2 and Digital Director are now for sale)

Guest #1 (me):
(Same as the host)

1. Olympus XDMI analog - best
2. Olympus USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - second best
3. Taiko Extreme USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - my third preference

Guest #2:

1. Olympus USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - best
2. Olympus XDMI analog - second best
3. Taiko Extreme USB —(MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC - his third preference

Our main takeaway? Subjectively, all three of us preferred the Olympus XDMI analog over the Taiko Extreme + MSB Digital Director + MSB Select 2 in this particular setup. And that's without the Olympus I/O. I am excited to see/hear what the I/O will add when I receive mine.

Our biggest surprise? How much of an improvement we felt the Olympus USB was on the MSB Select 2 in this system, even with the MSB Digital Director.

The good news - I am told the XDMI MSB ProISL daughter card is nearly ready (I have one on order with my next Olympus). I wish we had a chance to try that as well. Next time, I guess? It will be extremely interesting to see how much of an improvement XDMI ProISL would be over USB and whether that will significantly change our rankings listed above.

Lastly, I am very interested in making such comparisons with other reference level DACs. Please reach out if you have any ideas on how to make this happen.


Disclaimer: The experiences and views shared above are purely my own from this particular listening session. As audio perception is highly individual, others may have different impressions or preferences. This review is shared for informational purposes only and is not intended to criticize or harm any products or brands.

 

These detailed comparison are invaluable.

 

Does Olympus XDMI analog imply the DAC is housed within the Olympus? There’s technical reasons why internal DACs might work better due to timing issues than external DACs that are not synchronized by an external clock.

 

The one thing that surprises me is that there was such a short time.

Things with connections (some obvious and instantaneous) are observed but some things take time to properly situate themself.

That said, wonderful observations and thank you very much!

Tom

 

Correction....not "surprises me"....but one must put this into the perspective of observations. 4 hours isn't necessarily long term.

Again, great write up on the observations.

Tom

 

Olympus XDMI and Sennheiser HE-1

As I mentioned earlier, I lent my Olympus XDMI to @onlychild for several days while I took a short trip to the Smoky Mountains (where, by the way, a black bear decided to join us on the cabin porch for dinner one night). You may be wondering why there hasn’t been any feedback on the Olympis XDMI yet. Let me explain.

@onlychild has the best headphone system I’ve ever seen or heard - Taiko Extreme with a dedicated router and switch, Sennheiser HE-1, all powered off-grid by a Stromtank S-5000, grounded by a Tripoint grounding system, HRS rack, Shunyata Omega cables, and more. It’s an incredibly resolving system.

As I was driving to Tennessee, I expected a call or text raving about the Olympus. But... nothing. No feedback on the first day, and none on the second day either. Strange! On the third day, I finally received a long message explaining that, while the Olympus was maybe 5-10% better than the Extreme, it wasn’t enough to justify the upgrade cost.

We had a long conversation discussing what he might have been hearing and why. One of the theories was that, since his entire system was already powered by the Stromtank and off-grid, he might not be experiencing the full benefits of the Olympus. But I didn’t buy that. The Stromtank’s batteries don’t sound as good as the Olympus’s. The Olympus BMS and GaN regulation are state-of-the-art, while the Stromtank uses an inverter to step up low-voltage battery output to 120V, only for components to step it down again later. So, technically, the Stromtank + Taiko Extreme combo has several disadvantages compared to the Olympus.

During our conversation, @onlychild mentioned something that piqued my interest: he thought the Olympus USB was more dynamic than the Olympus XDMI analog, which he described as softer. Bingo! That was the key. XDMI has extreme dynamics, crazy transients, and everything you’d want from your digital source. The only way to kill that is through additional digital conversion. I was now certain that the Sennheiser HE-1 was applying some kind of digital manipulation. A quick search revealed that the HE-1’s analog inputs are indeed converted to digital to apply DSP. Well, that explained a lot.

So, here’s what’s happening:

1. Taiko Extreme USB → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog;
2. Taiko Olympus USB → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog;
3. Taiko Olympus XDMI → analog input on the Sennheiser HE-1→ analog converted to digital → DSP → Sennheiser HE-1’s built-in DAC → analog.

In comparison, #2 is clearly better than #1, but not by much. However, #3 sounded softer and less dynamic, which makes sense since the digital conversion inside the HE-1 was negating the benefits of the XDMI.

To clarify what's going on: XDMI is engineered to minimize digital conversions, eliminate USB, and offer extremely low latency. Meanwhile, the DSP inside the HE-1 is doing the opposite - converting the analog back to digital, applying DSP, and then converting it back to analog. So, the final DAC isn’t the XDMI analog - it’s the DAC inside the HE-1. Not only does this add more digital conversions, but it also introduces a significant amount of latency (though this is probably moot since we’re dealing with another DAC anyway).

In short, if you own a Sennheiser HE-1, you’re probably better off avoiding the XDMI analog. Look for the best digital source. Olympus USB will be an upgrade over Taiko Extreme USB, but you’re entering the realm of diminishing returns.

I also have the HE1 (I prefer the Stax 007mk1 on a DIY T2 amp to the HE1 by a quite big margin though) and would strongly recommend to keep the HE1 and the Olympus off the Stromtank.

I have had a S5000HP and tried various configurations with it and in the end left it out of the chain altogether.

It might not be an issue with the HE1 or its DSP.

 

FWIW pleaase stay tuned to an announcement coming in the next few days but Ihave finally sealed a weekend date for an open house here in Southern California. On display for all to peruse will be the new Horizon 360 along with the Olympus/IO and the Taiko XDMI digital card

my house willl be open to all wishing to hear the digital card with a world class DAC and a premium XDMI cable

Presently I can say that Lukasz and Fred will be here and the hope that Emile will be as well. Emile however being the mensch that he is and finally back to all hands on deck he won't commit to coming until he feels that he has raised production to such levels that he feels comfortable leaving for a long weekend. The date is definite but I will be posting the announcement early this week. It is my hope as well that Emile will be bringing with an IO loaded with the analogue card for direct A-B comparisons.

Should Emile not be able to attend this weekend I will soon announce I do plan on therefore having a second weekend at a date TBD solely by Emile so rest assured this is happening. I have waited over 2 years to be able to finally announce this weekend and in the interim it only got better with the just released Horizon 360. From what I have heard with both Horizons each via USB as well as XDMI I think everyone will be in for a treat.In fact I have kept the recent Horizon with the XDMI port here for comparisons should people wish to A-B the Horizon vs the Horizon 360.

I will be posting this announcement with time and date in several subforms through out WBF this week so that everyone who is interested can RSVP, I live in a guarded gate community so I will need all those planning to attend to RSVP along with any guests you might be bringing for the garte pass as well as to try and stagger times. I did this last in Feb 2022 with the release of the Taiko Horizon when Lukasz and Fred were here. There were about 45 attendees that weekend

I need a head count also to plan on refreshments and snacks

This will be a weekend not to be missed

For those coming form out of town I will give names of some very nice hotels within a 10 minute drive to my house

 

amazing and thank you @nenon
u might have saved more than a few folks $100k

Put another way, short of having msb XDMI interface, u pay ~$75 - 80k for the Olympus (forget the I/O for the moment) and it sounds better than the $35k extreme coupled w the msb select 2 w director (~140k)?
better sound for $100,000 less…. if remotely the case, that is audioland earth shattering

sorry. still digesting this and imagining emile’s smile

sounds like DAC manufacturers maybe huddling this week to chart a future path w XDMI (hopefully)

 

Does Olympus XDMI analog imply the DAC is housed within the Olympus? There’s technical reasons why internal DACs might work better due to timing issues than external DACs that are not synchronized by an external clock.

Yes

 

amazing and thank you @nenon
u might have saved more than a few folks $100k

Put another way, short of having msb XDMI interface, u pay ~$75 - 80k for the Olympus (forget the I/O for the moment) and it sounds better than the $35k extreme coupled w the msb select 2 w director (~140k)?
better sound for $100,000 less…. if remotely the case, that is audioland earth shattering

sorry. still digesting this and imagining emile’s smile

sounds like DAC manufacturers maybe huddling this week to chart a future path w XDMI (hopefully)

Can't wait to hear back from nenon on the upcoming comparison between the Olympus XDMI (MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC versus the Olympus XDMI analog. That will answer a lot of questions.for high end DAC owners.

 

That will answer a lot of questions.for high end DAC owners.

well it will answer questions as I think I read it for MSB DAC owners. Come to the open house at my house to hear yet another iteration and hopefully Emile will be bringing an IO with analogue board for quick comparisons . Announcement coming this week

 

well it will answer questions as I think I read it for MSB DAC owners. Come to the open house at my house to hear yet another iteration and hopefully Emile will be bringing an IO with analogue board for quick comparisons . Announcement coming this week

Yes you are correct Steve. It will “begin” to answer questions for high end DAC owners.

And thank you for the kind invitation and graciously hosting what will be a great listening experience.

 

Aries Cerat is developing its Xdmi interface, but haven’t heard any progress reports.

 

Can't wait to hear back from nenon on the upcoming comparison between the Olympus XDMI (MSB ProISL)—> MSB Digital Director -> MSB Select 2 DAC versus the Olympus XDMI analog. That will answer a lot of questions.for high end DAC owners.

Indeed!

@nenon 's initial feedback has been truly insightful.

We're comparing a reference DAC with the XDMI DAC daughterboard, and despite the massive price difference (around a factor of 150) the XDMI module seems to hold against one of the top DACs on the market.

Now, imagine an even more advanced XDMI DAC daughterboard featuring fully balanced output...

I'm very eager to see what Nenon discovers next!

I could be mistaken, but if the feedback continues to be this positive, @Taiko Audio may no longer need DAC manufacturers to adopt the XDMI interface.

With the Olympus XDMI, Taiko Audio could naturally position itself as a strong alternative to even the best reference DACs.

Interesting times to come

Cheers,

Thomas

 

announcement will be posted later today with time and dates

I hope hope tp see everyone here. Getting here through John Wayne airport is the best option however for this coming from afar, LAX and San Diego are the best options.