Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[Al M.]

A definition of a high-end system is that it DOES allow better insight into the music. That's the whole point. It does approach good live sound and provide the emotional impact that live music can deliver.

Yes, well said.

For example you get better dynamics and fine dynamic shadings, which allow you to experience much more emotionality in the voices of an opera -- or any dynamic singing for that matter. There is just more insight into the musical expression. The better presence of the voices and more accurate tonality makes them more real, as if you are there, which also helps with emotional engagement.

Another example would be much better insights into, and engagement with, complex orchestral music, due to the fact that you can hear all musical voices and strands separately and clearly. You just don’t get that experience from mediocre reproduction.

Of course, one could come up with yet other examples.

 

[Rexp]

There is a threshold at which a system can be deemed high-end, when the music is delivered in altogether more convincing manner. It's not necessarily related to cost, I remember listening to the track below on a cassette /boombox via high-end amps/speakers and tearing up, something that doesn't happen on mid-fi systems.

 

[Kingrex]

If I think back, I would say I was more emotionally attached to the music I was listening to when I had a cheap pair of Realistic headphone played through an all in one stereo. The type with the record player you could stack multiple albums on the tall spindle and they would drop down. I don't know you can say emotional attachment is related to quality of playback. Its just something people seem to say often on this forum. I would venture a guess that emotional attachment to music is much more related to hormones and social interactions that get associated with music and the music triggers emotions later on.

 

[Rexp]

If I think back, I would say I was more emotionally attached to the music I was listening to when I had a cheap pair of Realistic headphone played through an all in one stereo. The type with the record player you could stack multiple albums on the tall spindle and they would drop down. I don't know you can say emotional attachment is related to quality of playback. Its just something people seem to say often on this forum. I would venture a guess that emotional attachment to music is much more related to hormones and social interactions that get associated with music and the music triggers emotions later on.

Ok, out of interest, why did you buy a high-end system, what does it do for you?

 

[treitz3]

If I think back, I would say I was more emotionally attached to the music I was listening to when I had a cheap pair of Realistic headphone played through an all in one stereo. The type with the record player you could stack multiple albums on the tall spindle and they would drop down. I don't know you can say emotional attachment is related to quality of playback. Its just something people seem to say often on this forum. I would venture a guess that emotional attachment to music is much more related to hormones and social interactions that get associated with music and the music triggers emotions later on.

Wait....WHAT?

Tom

 

[Kingrex]

Ok, out of interest, why did you buy a high-end system, what does it do for you?

Because I had a high net worth and substantial income. I also bought a Porsche and Mercedes. I bought a fishing boat. I have maybe 50 rods and 20 reels. Most are going to have a name like Lamiglas or GL Loomis. Or I made it myself from custom blanks I procure from select boutique manufacturer. I am a hobbyist that gets into buying fancy stuff. I am a typical American consumer with money in my pocket. We had no kids so I spent the money on myself. We also have over 30 original art pieces from NW artist. We bought 2 more in the last month and have no place to put them or store them.
I always had a stereo as a youngster. When I got older and the money started to flow, I asked my wife if it was ok to spend $10K to get a stereo. She said ok, and so it began. Now she says no more. But that's a different story. We have a house to remodel. And she is not backing down on the appliances and cabinets she wants. They put the expense of my stereo to shame.

 

[Kingrex]

If I think back, I would say I was more emotionally attached to the music I was listening to when I had a cheap pair of Realistic headphone played through an all in one stereo. The type with the record player you could stack multiple albums on the tall spindle and they would drop down. I don't know you can say emotional attachment is related to quality of playback. Its just something people seem to say often on this forum. I would venture a guess that emotional attachment to music is much more related to hormones and social interactions that get associated with music and the music triggers emotions later on.

Wait....WHAT?

Tom

Aren't emotions heavily driven by hormones. They don't seem to be driven by rational, logical thinking. Not unless its crying over your stock portfolio. When your young and into a girl, and a song is on the radio when you sneak a kiss from her, that gets lodged into the memory banks and emotions are going to rise up when you hear the song. Or you're at a party with friend having an amazing time and the music playing is going to tie to the experience. Life is new. Experiences are new. We are in a growth and learning phase of life.

As old turds like we all are, our hormone levels are most likely very low. Most of life is mundane as we ach too much to go and do anything special. Or we fall asleep before the party starts. Work consumes most all our time so we don't have all the new experiences. And how many new experiences can you have. Its like catching fish. At some point it starts to run together. I don't remember many of the individual encounters I have each year. Last year I remember 2 fish. A massive King that was Native and I had to let it go. And a massive Silver. Largest I have every caught. The 30 others???? I just remember I ate salmon every day for about 3 months. Pretty much like every year.

 

[Lagonda]

I must say I can't understand your answer to my post and the reference to measures and objectivity.

Using the same logic I could answer that you want to post on the relation between audiophiles and music lovers based on data about whales singing together ...

BTW, this particular subject (relation between audiophiles and music lovers) was studied with some depth by audio scholars - I could imagine that internet readers in an high-end audio forum would find it interesting.

Or not !

 

[treitz3]

@Kingrex - I guess we are different. I am way more emotionally attached and drawn into the sound now than ever before, even on new songs I have never heard before. I owe this to my system's performance and not a distant or recent memory.

Tom

 

[Kingrex]

I think I am more analytically than emotionally attached. I spend too much time listening to the details and analyzing how it could be better. When I was younger, I could care less about how it sounded. I only cared about the music itself.

It could be interpreted that people who spend time setting up a stereo and getting the pieces that take them closer to the sound of "Real" are listening to the gear. Not the music. You don't need a good stereo to listen to music and cry. You just need music that moves you.

 

[Kingrex]

wherever you go, there you are. our feelings are always part of the picture. losing yourself in the music is never completely logical. there is an element of calm and belief involved. and an element of your personality and ability to control your state of mind. being prepared. having all your personal touchstones in place.

maybe your relationship with music prior to going down the audiophile road morphed into a degree of competition involved in the audiophile thing and got in your head. all of a sudden you are doing something for somewhat different reasons. and so the simple value proposition of musical enjoyment now also had audiophile system development frustrations. some negative feelings and not enough positive feelings. you are trying to find more value with better sound but it's not happening......enough......as you are seeing/hearing it.

we all handle ups and downs of being an audiophile differently. basically we need to really enjoy our listening time to keep the other head trip stuff in context.

step back and only do what feels good. to hell with the other stuff. enjoy.

I would not argue that I have had ups and downs. I have hit levels of frustration that make you want to throw up your hands and quit. Like the time I came home from listening to your tape of Led Z. I put on my record of the same album and turned the stereo off after 15 seconds and wanted nothing to do with it for a long while.
All this talk about tuning and spending months and years to get it right. That means you're playing music for months and years with something telling you, its wrong. Or its not right yet. And it knaws at you enough you go and move the speaker a quarter inch. Maybe some people say that is what brings them enjoyment.

The times I enjoy my stereo the most are when I am not really thinking about how its playing or what it sounds like. When I'm just in the mood to hear something and I forget about the stereo itself and only hear the song. Its not like it magically got better. It's simply a frame of mind that allows me to become emotionally attached.

 

[treitz3]

I think I am more analytically than emotionally attached. I spend too much time listening to the details and analyzing how it could be better. When I was younger, I could care less about how it sounded. I only cared about the music itself.

It could be interpreted that people who spend time setting up a stereo and getting the pieces that take them closer to the sound of "Real" are listening to the gear. Not the music. You don't need a good stereo to listen to music and cry. You just need music that moves you.

Oh, I am no longer analyzing the music. I'll agree with you on your younger assessment but at this point? Oh man, it's all about that sweet music, and how it gets into these ears. Listening to the gear is sad. While it's always been about the music, I have (for a long time) tried to improve upon it. At this point? It's just a bonus because now, it's literally all about the music that seemingly blows my auditory senses every time I listen.

Lose the thought of "real". That will never happen. The best we could ever hope to achieve is "palpable", or the best approximation thereof, to that of live sound. Real sound is my reference but I would be a complete fool if I ever thought my (or any system) could ever get close to the real sound of a lightning strike.

Tom

 

[Rexp]

It could be interpreted that people who spend time setting up a stereo and getting the pieces that take them closer to the sound of "Real" are listening to the gear. Not the music. You don't need a good stereo to listen to music and cry. You just need music that moves you.

If you haven't experienced what I and others are talking about, you really have no clue.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I would not argue that I have had ups and downs. I have hit levels of frustration that make you want to throw up your hands and quit. Like the time I came home from listening to your tape of Led Z. I put on my record of the same album and turned the stereo off after 15 seconds and wanted nothing to do with it for a long while.
All this talk about tuning and spending months and years to get it right. That means you're playing music for months and years with something telling you, its wrong. Or its not right yet. And it knaws at you enough you go and move the speaker a quarter inch. Maybe some people say that is what brings them enjoyment.

try to keep things in perspective. but it can mess with your mind for sure. the biggest gains i've made in my system development were hearing things in other systems i was not quite getting in mine. went back and worked on it.

for sure you have to have a musical enjoyment quotient high enough to keep your passion switched on to full through the system development process. you have to embrace the journey. i loved listening to my reference tracks in my process. i never hurried. it was all good.

it's not for everyone. if your dark side rears it's head too easily then the pursuit might not be worth it.

The times I enjoy my stereo the most are when I am not really thinking about how its playing or what it sounds like. When I'm just in the mood to hear something and I forget about the stereo itself and only hear the song. Its not like it magically got better. It's simply a frame of mind that allows me to become emotionally attached.

find a trigger to get to that mind space and then embrace the journey.

 

[thedudeabides]

The times I enjoy my stereo the most are when I am not really thinking about how its playing or what it sounds like. When I'm just in the mood to hear something and I forget about the stereo itself and only hear the song. Its not like it magically got better. It's simply a frame of mind that allows me to become emotionally atattached.

It's not a trigger. Like snapping your fingers inside your head and you are "there". IMO, it's deeper, more complex. You need to figure out the what and why of that mental state. Good luck.

 

[thedudeabides]

Part of the problem is that the masses don’t know what to expect and have no idea what they’re missing.

Or maybe they are content with what they have and simply enjoy the music on their own "terms". For those folks, they are not missing anything. Why you assume they are is, IMHO, self serving and pretentious.

 

[thedudeabides]

I always find it amusing that having the system "disappear" seems to be a universal goal for audiophiles - it is ironic. I believe that this disappearing act can occur at any price point (so you may as well spend as little as possible!). It's a combination of gear and mindset. The result, when that happens, is exactly the same in terms of "emotional connection".

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[Rexp]

Or maybe they are content with what they have and simply enjoy the music. For those folks, they are not missing anything. Why you assume they are is, IMHO, self serving and pretentious.

Yes not everyone appreciates high--end, even on this forum it seems, I find that odd. It's a bit like joining a fine wine forum and arguing you only need to spend 10 bucks to get a decent bottle.

 

[Iamrael]

Or maybe they are content with what they have and simply enjoy the music. For those folks, they are not missing anything. Why you assume they are is, IMHO, self serving and pretentious.

you are making up a hypothetical situation and creating a negative narrative which I find repulsive and nauseating…and completely unnecessary.

 

[hopkins]

A definition of a high-end system is that it DOES allow better insight into the music.

Do you know many music critics with a high end audio system?

That's the whole point. It does approach good live sound and provide the emotional impact that live music can deliver.

Emotions can be triggered in a variety of situations - witness the millions around the world who shed a tear watching this on their phone or TV:

Audiophiles can be "blocked" in their ability to experience music by what they perceive as bad sound - often only when there is an expectation of good sound.

Unlike you Peter, not everyone on this thread has experienced a well set up high-end system playing the best recordings.

So Peter's emotional response is much greater than others who claim to be emotionally engaged with lesser systems and/or recordings'? Lol.