Is it unwise to buy a state of the art CD player at this time?

[NorthStar]

Really sorry to hear about your hearing loss, Russ. You have a huge dilemma, and yes, I also think you will regret your decision to abandon the 4000SV.
Their DAC is not far off, if that helps, and if your hearing condition means this is your last chance to hear the best CD sound, think about your decision again.

I have read very carefully Russ's original first post, plus the long one you responded to.
I'm from your line of thought. Russ listened to it (Spectal SDR-4000SV) and he loved what he heard.
And from his Oppo 103 he can play DSD (SACD) files.

There is only one set of ears that can truly suggest a good direction for his musical enchantment; his.
________

Some of Russ's latest quotes that arrested my attention:

1 - "Central to this is listening to more music and spending less time and energy on what equipment I have and how to tweak out the extra couple percent.

2 - I have always eventually come to the same conclusion, the music is much more important than the system. I have heard a number of very simple inexpensive systems recently that produce almost as much joy for me as my most recent elaborate system.

3 - ...is streaming digital sound "good enough" for my digital listening or do I try to make my current CD library sound as good as possible and continue to buy CD’s instead of shifting to streaming and vinyl.

4 - SACD's are a non-issue for me because I have none and do not plan to buy any even though they can sound incredible ((Many certainly do)). Besides, if I do want some SACD's I can play them on the Oppo BDP 103 connected to an excellent DAC like my Meitner if I buy the Spectral SDR 4000SV, to a tube DAC if do not buy the Spectral.

5 - The Spectral SV circuitry is amazing and I am thrilled to have it in both my Spectral DMC 30SV preamp and the Spectral DMC 300RS power amp, but I love, colored or not, the slight tube/analog influence that I had to sacrifice when I sold my tube preamp because it was not compatible with the Spectral DMC 300RS. While adding the Spectral SDR 4000SV would make a full SV signal path from the CD to speaker that would undoubtedly be incredible with the lowest possible noise floor, I fear that I would miss the slight influence of having some tubes in the digital signal path.

6 - The Spectral SDR 4000SV is an incredible piece, possibly the best CD player on the market. I understand that the purist approach at Spectral and with Keith Johnson in particular necessitated designing only for Red Book and that having digital inputs would take away from the design and performance ((That is also my take)).

7 - ... For this reason and my hearing problems, the Spectral SDR 4000SV is a no go for me, although a part of me will always regret this decision.

8 - I am totally confused about which way to go, but feel a fair amount of internal resistance to going with a Lampizator because I just do not think that the company has found its stride yet and I do not want to deal with tweaking and continually upgrading any more.

9 - Whereas, the only time I have heard an Ayon product, the Spirit III amp I was so impressed that it burned a spot in my mind.

10 - I have once again made the most basic mistake in audio and gotten too into the equipment and technology and drifted away from the music. I think that this mistake and the combination my current hearing problems this is why I have not been listening as much lately. I should probably just buy an Ayon DAC and try to decide if the Stealth DAC is good enough at $8100 or should I spend an extra $1700 and buy the Stratos, which has a few more features, but is mostly a better version with all hand-picked and matched parts.

11 - The other question is should I just keep the Oppo BDP 103 or spend and additional $4700 and buy the tube equipped Ayon CD-T transport? Our should I buy an Ayon CD-3SX (essentially a Stealth DAC and CD-T transport in a player) for $8500, bank the money and be happy with just having "excellent" and not the best?

12 - Probably what I should do is put the Meinter DAC up for sale and see what I get and then decide on the tube CD player, DAC and transport front, although I think that I will probably go with the Ayon Stratos and possibly the $4,500 tubed Ayon CD-T transport because the extra $1700 for their best DAC is not that big a deal and I want to stop buying equipment, listen and focus on increasing my joy from music.

13 - The question now is, will my residual tweaky needs will lead me to buy the better DAC transport, although at this time I do not know how much better. Fortunately, USA Tubes a premier Ayon dealer, has a 30 day money back guarantee on all Ayon products

14 - Once again, I would love and value any suggestions."
______

Wow, if I was the best pro audio dealer of the entire globe (I'm not, and have zero experience with any of the audio products mentioned); I might suggest (#14) what you said in your own words from your own listening experience in quotes #1 and #2 above.

Basically, from all the other quotes it seems to me that there is some great contradiction with your best quotes; #1 and 2.

The other quotes that from my reading seems to coincide with #1 and 2 are: #5, #6 and #12 (the highlights).

The only thing I can do is what I just did. :b ...To the best of my own comprehension.

 

[NorthStar]

... I did not find Spectral fatiguing at all. I know some SS I have found fatiguing, not spectral. Just not enough involvement, decay, and soundstage in an all SS system. As soon as the valves were in it the bloom, decay, soundstage, realism increased. I am wary of getting the wrong valves in which muddy up the resolution (which is what happened with VTL S400 compared to Spectral), but did not in this case.

Btw I started investigating spectral because of Marty's system, and have been only impressed in it so far, and he used VTL pre to drive the power, also has the room to let the dynamics and bass flow through.

This is very interesting to me.

 

[still-one]

Well, it's still an effort and a hassle. You will not convince me otherwise. I know too well from ripping CDs to CD-R for my car some years ago.

Ripping a CD is much easier than duplicating a disc. Normally it is one more button than just playing the disc. To each his own.

 

[FrantzM]

Ripping a CD is much easier than duplicating a disc. Normally it is one more button than just playing the disc. To each his own.

I would say...

There is an ingrained tendency in audiophiles to make things complicated things, we are master of this art...

I believe Russ is somewhat interested I would like to get his take after a trip through Tidal/Roon (both havea free Trial so ...) on this.

on my side I will in a few mins fire Roon and start listening.

 

[NorthStar]

Amir, what do you think about books and all of those lovely private libraries around the world with beautiful, physical books on their shelves? Are physical books a dead format that just doesn't know it yet, too? Serious, not rhetorical, question.

We cannot dismiss history, we cannot dismiss art, but we can dismiss any new technologies that don't fit our best calculated set of values.
Only tomorrow will tell. It's not necessarily the new trends they tried to embark us, it's our own trends of our own soul's roots. ...Live - Die - Repeat.
Nobody is free but us. :b

Sorry Peter, you brought some philosophical thoughts in me.

 

[NorthStar]

Post #113 ? Effort is optional. You can plug and play, but some choose to be computer audiophiles. In this hobby people go through phases...tube rolls, cartridge rolls, cable swaps, software...but some are just plug and play

Post #114 ? I totally agree with post #113.

I cannot disagree with post #114. :b

 

[microstrip]

I would say...

There is an ingrained tendency in audiophiles to make things complicated things, we are master of this art...

I believe Russ is somewhat interested I would like to get his take after a trip through Tidal/Roon (both havea free Trial so ...) on this.

on my side I will in a few mins fire Roon and start listening.

On the contrary, many audiophiles look at stereo questions oversimplifying, looking for general rules and recipes, forgetting what is the audiophile diversity.

BTW, are you able to answer my question concerning Roon and the status of the classical music database?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?21375-Is-it-unwise-to-buy-a-state-of-the-art-CD-player-at-this-time&p=411804&viewfull=1#post411804

 

[amirm]

Amir, what do you think about books and all of those lovely private libraries around the world with beautiful, physical books on their shelves? Are physical books a dead format that just doesn't know it yet, too? Serious, not rhetorical, question.

When we decided to remodel our home a few years ago, we put in these expensive built-ins in the living room. Now I totally wonder why. Almost all of book purchases are electronic. The bookshelves still look "beautiful" but they don't serve any purpose other than furnishing and holding all the books we have that are gathering dust!

Do you all really live so far in the past as to not have felt/adopted these new trends????

So yes, the book is a dead format. A tree is a beautiful thing and needs to be where it is instead of being converted to pulp to create books. For technical and reference stuff, ability to search is essential and electronics gives this to us. And with OLED displays, ability to keep books currents, giving everyone the ability to publish a book without killing one tree, and you have the making of a dead format in books. And being able to download a book immediately, is well, priceless.

 

[amirm]

It may be convenient once you have ripped all your CDs to file. But to get there you have to spend quite some time -- a lot of it. One of the many reasons computer audio does not entice me at this point.

I did all of my ripping while spending time on forums! But today, I would not even bother ripping most of them. Just get Tidal subscription and likely most of your library is there ready to be streamed.

 

[microstrip]

It may be convenient once you have ripped all your CDs to file. But to get there you have to spend quite some time -- a lot of it. One of the many reasons computer audio does not entice me at this point.

Spending time ripping is one the dumbest and more primitive things we can do in our free time. Hundreds of thousands of people repeating the same periodic 5 minute ritual for the same recording. In order to rip my collection I would need around 200 full hours. Many of us have the same recordings and because of legal constraints we can not share the files!

I can get most of my CDs at around 6 euros at Amazon or eBay - the same resolution FLAC file will cost me around 15 euros.

 

[Al M.]

Spending time ripping is one the dumbest and more primitive things we can do in our free time. Hundreds of thousands of people repeating the same periodic 5 minute ritual for the same recording. In order to rip my collection I would need around 200 full hours. Many of us have the same recordings and because of legal constraints we can not share the files!

I can get most of my CDs at around 6 euros at Amazon or eBay - the same resolution FLAC file will cost me around 15 euros.

+ 1

 

[Al M.]

On the contrary, many audiophiles look at stereo questions oversimplifying, looking for general rules and recipes, forgetting what is the audiophile diversity.

Hence the blanket statements on SS vs. tubes, digital vs. analog etc.

Dogmatism is easy, evaluating the actual evidence less so.

 

[microstrip]

When we decided to remodel our home a few years ago, we put in these expensive built-ins in the living room. Now I totally wonder why. Almost all of book purchases are electronic. The bookshelves still look "beautiful" but they don't serve any purpose other than furnishing and holding all the books we have that are gathering dust!

Do you all really live so far in the past as to not have felt/adopted these new trends????

So yes, the book is a dead format. A tree is a beautiful thing and needs to be where it is instead of being converted to pulp to create books. For technical and reference stuff, ability to search is essential and electronics gives this to us. And with OLED displays, ability to keep books currents, giving everyone the ability to publish a book without killing one tree, and you have the making of a dead format in books. And being able to download a book immediately, is well, priceless.

Telling that the book is a dead format when the penetration of e-book is currently less than 6% in Germany, and almost steady during last year, and 1% in China seems somewhat premature ...
Data from the period of October 2013-October2014

 

[FrantzM]

Spending time ripping is one the dumbest and more primitive things we can do in our free time. Hundreds of thousands of people repeating the same periodic 5 minute ritual for the same recording. In order to rip my collection I would need around 200 full hours. Many of us have the same recordings and because of legal constraints we can not share the files!

I can get most of my CDs at around 6 euros at Amazon or eBay - the same resolution FLAC file will cost me around 15 euros.

I pay $20 /month for Tidal and paid $400 or so for a lifetime Roon.. I think I have more CDs that way than anyone on this board not on Tidal at my disposal


perhaps we should see how the OP is open minded on the idea and is most interested in listening to music than splitting hair on the ultimate resolution...

This is courtesy a post by Northstar

Some of Russ's latest quotes that arrested my attention:

1 - "Central to this is listening to more music and spending less time and energy on what equipment I have and how to tweak out the extra couple percent.

2 - I have always eventually come to the same conclusion, the music is much more important than the system. I have heard a number of very simple inexpensive systems recently that produce almost as much joy for me as my most recent elaborate system.

3 - ...is streaming digital sound "good enough" for my digital listening or do I try to make my current CD library sound as good as possible and continue to buy CD’s instead of shifting to streaming and vinyl.

4 - SACD's are a non-issue for me because I have none and do not plan to buy any even though they can sound incredible ((Many certainly do)). Besides, if I do want some SACD's I can play them on the Oppo BDP 103 connected to an excellent DAC like my Meitner if I buy the Spectral SDR 4000SV, to a tube DAC if do not buy the Spectral.

5 - The Spectral SV circuitry is amazing and I am thrilled to have it in both my Spectral DMC 30SV preamp and the Spectral DMC 300RS power amp, but I love, colored or not, the slight tube/analog influence that I had to sacrifice when I sold my tube preamp because it was not compatible with the Spectral DMC 300RS. While adding the Spectral SDR 4000SV would make a full SV signal path from the CD to speaker that would undoubtedly be incredible with the lowest possible noise floor, I fear that I would miss the slight influence of having some tubes in the digital signal path.

6 - The Spectral SDR 4000SV is an incredible piece, possibly the best CD player on the market. I understand that the purist approach at Spectral and with Keith Johnson in particular necessitated designing only for Red Book and that having digital inputs would take away from the design and performance ((That is also my take)).

7 - ... For this reason and my hearing problems, the Spectral SDR 4000SV is a no go for me, although a part of me will always regret this decision.

8 - I am totally confused about which way to go, but feel a fair amount of internal resistance to going with a Lampizator because I just do not think that the company has found its stride yet and I do not want to deal with tweaking and continually upgrading any more.

9 - Whereas, the only time I have heard an Ayon product, the Spirit III amp I was so impressed that it burned a spot in my mind.

10 - I have once again made the most basic mistake in audio and gotten too into the equipment and technology and drifted away from the music. I think that this mistake and the combination my current hearing problems this is why I have not been listening as much lately. I should probably just buy an Ayon DAC and try to decide if the Stealth DAC is good enough at $8100 or should I spend an extra $1700 and buy the Stratos, which has a few more features, but is mostly a better version with all hand-picked and matched parts.

11 - The other question is should I just keep the Oppo BDP 103 or spend and additional $4700 and buy the tube equipped Ayon CD-T transport? Our should I buy an Ayon CD-3SX (essentially a Stealth DAC and CD-T transport in a player) for $8500, bank the money and be happy with just having "excellent" and not the best?

12 - Probably what I should do is put the Meinter DAC up for sale and see what I get and then decide on the tube CD player, DAC and transport front, although I think that I will probably go with the Ayon Stratos and possibly the $4,500 tubed Ayon CD-T transport because the extra $1700 for their best DAC is not that big a deal and I want to stop buying equipment, listen and focus on increasing my joy from music.

13 - The question now is, will my residual tweaky needs will lead me to buy the better DAC transport, although at this time I do not know how much better. Fortunately, USA Tubes a premier Ayon dealer, has a 30 day money back guarantee on all Ayon products

14 - Once again, I would love and value any suggestions."

Seems the best for Russ would be to stream .. There are services to which you send you CD and they come back on a HDD with Metadata and everything ... Or onecould hire a student or a family member pay him or her 50 c per CD and be done without doing anything dumb with one's free time
______

 

[amirm]

Telling that the book is a dead format when the penetration of e-book is currently less than 6% in Germany, and almost steady during last year, and 1% in China seems somewhat premature ...
Data from the period of October 2013-October2014

Have you bought an e-book and compared it to print? If you have you know that the e-book version costs less. As such, revenues for e-book are lower for the same number of copies purchased. So you can't look at revenues for trends.

And even there, you need to look under the cover. Here is a Fortune article on that: http://fortune.com/2015/12/22/print-book-sales/

"Cheers could be heard coming from the “print isn’t dead” section of the book-publishing industry on Monday, thanks to some numbers from Nielsen that showed sales of printed books rose this year by about 2%. In the book business, that qualifies as a blockbuster year. But if you look beneath the numbers, it becomes less obvious that this is cause for celebration.

[...]

So what was the biggest factor in sending print numbers higher? Booming sales of adult coloring books, and books published by YouTube stars such as PewDiePie, the Swedish-born celebrity who makes about $12 million a year playing video games for a living.

[...]

If it wasn’t for coloring books, in fact, the printed-book business would likely look substantially weaker than it does. According to a recent ranking at Amazon AMZN -1.36% , five out of the top 10 best-selling books in the United States were adult coloring books."

And here is a bit on Germany: http://publishingperspectives.com/2016/06/ebook-sales-germany-revenue/#.V9ifJJgrJhE

"The number of ebook buyers reportedly stayed constant (2.2 million people, or 3.3 percent of the population). And although demand for ebooks has risen by a steady 6.3 percent compared to last year—meaning that ebook users bought and read more books than before—revenue is still down for the first quarter of 2016.

Why? Lower ebook prices. Ebooks now cost 5.9 percent less on average than in 2015, with the average ebook selling for €6.60 (US$7.48) instead of €7.01 (US$7.95)."

Regardless, the question was put to me and I provided my opinion. Future trend here is clear. New generation is not going to be buying books like we used to. And us older folks who adopt technology quickly have already joined the younger crowd.

There will always be defenders of old even past something completely dying. But the trend here is clear. We won't need to drive our own cars. We don't need to spin CDs. And we don't need century old techniques for passing written text and pictures to consumers. You can keep looking backward if you like. Just make sure there is no bus coming to hit you while you do that.

 

[NorthStar]

Russ is going to sell all his audio gear and start streaming eBooks. ...For free: https://store.kobobooks.com/en-ca/p/free-ebooks

 

[still-one]

Spending time ripping is one the dumbest and more primitive things we can do in our free time. Hundreds of thousands of people repeating the same periodic 5 minute ritual for the same recording. In order to rip my collection I would need around 200 full hours. Many of us have the same recordings and because of legal constraints we can not share the files!

I can get most of my CDs at around 6 euros at Amazon or eBay - the same resolution FLAC file will cost me around 15 euros.

d

Most of us are ripping while we are listening. So listening to our systems is a waste of time.

 

[Al M.]

d

Most of us are ripping while we are listening.

Then you're not really listening

 

[still-one]

Then you're not really listening

How do you figure that? Inserting a disc every 15 minutes takes less concentration than skipping skipping the filler tracks on every album I listen to. Life's to short to listen to crap. :-}

 

[Al M.]

How do you figure that? Inserting a disc every 15 minutes takes less concentration than skipping skipping the filler tracks on every album I listen to. Life's to short to listen to crap. :-}

That's still a distraction which I wouldn't want to afford with almost all music that I listen to.