Is Pass Labs/Martin Logan a good match?

[Big Dog RJ]

Getting back to the main topic on Pass Labs gear...

Forgot to mention my experiences with the XA160.8 monoblocks. Dating back to the mid 90's, I used a radical version of these from Nelson Pass, the Threshold Statis 12/e. These were initially driving my previous Apogee Diva's, handled those with ease, no issues. However, musicality wasn't too flash, such that it had all the drive, control factor and dynamics but there seemed to be listener fatigue setting in within a few hours. Managed to sell these off to another dealer in Spore and that's about when we started ordering the Conrad Johnson Premier series tube gear. Starting with the Premier 11A (70w stereo), Premier 12 (140w monoblocks) and the glorious Premier 8A's (275w tube monoblocks). Now those drove the Apogee's extremely well, with all the virtues of control and drive factor, nothing lack and the level of musicality was superb! That's about the time after a few more years, I just stuck with CJ in our personal systems. Many other types / brands of gear were sold through our network but CJ remained constant with most of our primary dealers. Their service was also top notch back then.

Fast fwd that era to now, and about early Feb last year, I had the chance to audition the Pass Labs XA160.8 and XA200.8 being the most powerful Class A monoblocks Pass Labs currently makes. Although the XA200.8 was mighty mighty impressive, sort of like a Formula 1 race car running around the block... the XA160.8's had a slightly warmer touch to it and something I found that I could listen to for endless hours without that SS fatigue. So that's a definite yes, not all Pass Labs are of equal standing. Speakers used at the time were the ML Neolith's and the Ren15A's. Both set-ups were located in big rooms, so I guess this was a very positive factor in launching the dipole affect properly, without any smearing of those wave patterns. As I've stated before numerous times, get that room sorted out, then comes the speakers, not the other way round...
It's far more difficult to sort out the room, once its done, changing speakers is more manageable. From a personal perspective, I also preferred the overall esthetics of the Ren15A's compared to the Neoliths, man are those huge!

My quest in finding a suitable SS amp as an alternative to my current CJ monoblocks, continues! I've gone through 19 different SS amps now and still looking. So far, the Pass Labs gear sits on top of my short list. Topping three critical criteria that's very important to me: Overall performance, VFM & build quality, and a high Class A bias operation. Obviously these three areas are very important in driving full range Stats, so with CLX's, it's a match made in heaven! Will see how it goes, will most probably make a decision by March next year.

NOTE: This is just my personal experience and opinion on Pass Labs gear and matching them with ML Stats. Others will have different views, their experiences vary with Pass Labs gear. Hence, in order to determine which gear is right for you and most suits your system and your room, well that can only be determined by YOU!

Cheers, and do enjoy those finest tunes.
WOOF! RJ

 

[Tascam]

G'day mate, from down unda;

Depends on which Martin Logan you're referring to? or planning to demo/evaluate or probably buy?...

One of the best ML systems I have heard to date is the CLX partnered with Pass Labs XA30.8. I have made a comprehensive post on this, referring to the CLX Art, you will see it under this section and the various posts that have followed. I have also listened extensively to other ML systems, specifically the new Ren15A and the previous Summit and Montis driven with either Audio Research tube amps or Conrad Johnson- all of these sounded superb and very musical.

Also, at the dealers place where I purchased my pair of ML Ethos speakers, prior to making that decision, I also got the chance to try out various amplifiers over a few days, evaluating and comparing notes on sonic performance. These amps were: Devialet, Accuphase, Luxman, Mark Levinson, Jeff Rowland, Ayon, CJ and the Pass Labs N150 (integrated).
All of these amps had a totally different character and tone, the ones that I personally preferred were tube amps with the Ethos.

At the end of the day, it is definitely upto you. What are you after? What type of music do you listen to and how loud? At what level do you want to recreate recorded music? Are you a specialist audiophile / music fanatic that only goes for "audiophile" recordings or other types of high quality recordings, such as MoFi Labels on LP etc...

Why I ask these questions is because ML electrostats are highly intriguing panel & hybrid speakers. You can actually "tailor make" the sound you're after. Many speakers don't allow you to do this and would sound best only with a handful of electronics upstream or top end brands at top end prices...

With ML's the choice is yours!
1. If you're after a nice relaxing and very lively and highly musical sound- ARC and CJ have been my preference, and personally I'm using CJ with the Ethos, just marvelous!
2. If you're after a superb rendition of dynamics and full realism of a powerful presentation with all the force and great impact- Pass Labs is the way to go.
3. If you want the absolute best of both worlds, which is fantastic solid state drive with full control & effortless loudness, plus a smooth drive on the front end with a tube preamp, would be another superb combination. Another amp that is solid state which also has a tight grip on the bass and can handle the impedence curve of ML's is Plinius from New Zealand. Partner this beauty with a decent tube pre, and you will be amazed at the level of detail, transparency and speed that the ML's can deliver. With the tube pre added into the chain, this not only delivers a special kind of musicality but also great depth into the soundstage.
4. Overall- for me, since I mostly listen during late night sessions, and don't want to rock the house, it is rather the way I listen to music and not the way I play back music at whatever levels... Conrad Johnson is just marvelous on ML's and basically any sort of electrostats for that matter. CJ uses very wide bandwidth transformers and with the choice of certain tubes, the musicality factor is very high, involving and totally engaging. For me it is highly addictive and once you settle into that sort of presentation, you can listen for endless hours with zero fatigue... unlike other combinations that offer a full blast only enjoyable for a short period.

Apart from my good mate, Mr. K who also has the CLX Art driven with the Pass Labs XA30.8 (rated at just 32w pure class A) we also have Roberto based in Costa Rica who happens to have the CLX's as well, driven with all tube amplification from CJ, and is absolutely loving it! I can just imagine...
Check out his posts under Roberto and you will get what I'm talking about- the musicality!

Enough said, and as I said it all depends on what sort of sound you're after. Don't forget one thing, although ML's were fairly notorious to drive in the past, and due to their varied impedence loads, many top quality amps found them rather difficult to drive to their full potential. Hence, the reason only a handful of well known amps could handle electrostats.
However, with the advancement of DSP, re-engineered panel design and other electronic enhancements to control ML speakers, their newer panels & hybrids are far more efficient and fairly easier to drive but this does not mean "any amp" will drive them. Of course nearly any amp will drive them, no doubt but to what extent and how well is critical.

Based on your budgets, musical tastes and listening level preferences, you should get an idea of what you want out of your intended ML speakers... and try to match all these parameters with your room. Afterall, you may have the best electronics that money could buy but if you don't have the right room or mis-judged the room's dimensions/characteristics then I'm afraid such basic elements need to be addressed first, rather than focus on electronics... get my point?

All the best mate and have a good one! Let us know how it all goes, always nice to hear from someone with new experiences.
Cheers, RJ

I have a pair of Martin Logans. Great clarity and big soundstage, but horrible for dynamics. I moved them into my home gym and replaced them with this

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I have a pair of Martin Logans. Great clarity and big soundstage, but horrible for dynamics. I moved them into my home gym and replaced them with this

Ah! Nice one matey, the big Mac's.

A good mate over here, lives closeby, is a big Mac fan. Full array of several stereo amps, partnered with the C53, driving triple stacked Klipsch horns (Lascalla's). Also has various other Klipsch horns in the same room, so very passionate about Klipsch.... I would think?
Those things can reproduce something like 110dB with half a watt! So triple stacked... talk about dynamics! Blows the roof off! Including the neighbours roof!

So your ML's didn't have much dynamics and now they're placed in a home gym? Wow! What a luxurious gym! Keep those workouts pumping maaate!

BTW which Focals are those? Looks like the Sopra's...? Maybe not.

Note: there are a number of ML stats that are very dynamic and capable of high performance without flinching one bit. Such as:
Neolith, Ren15, 13A, 11A and Summit-X. Also the CLX's. There are many ML owners who have modded their stats, either into stacked versions, with modded subs or have incorporated multiple panels that are extremely dynamic. Just hop onto MLO (martin logan owners) forum and you'll come across some fantastic set-ups. A great deal to learn from that group, and they've been with ML's for decades. Oh! I forgot to mention the legendary ML Statements Evo-II's, plenty plenty of dynamics. So again, not all ML's, definitely not.

BTW, which ML's do you have that are lousy in dynamics? Also depends significantly on the amplifiers driving them. Some owners don't want heavy hitting dynamics, they're more into musicality with finesse, that's why I prefer the CLX's with tube amps. No other speaker I'd rather own, regardless of price. Although the Zellaton's are truly tops! Not yet a millionaire, maybe another lifetime.

Some have big Pass Labs amps, Dan D's Momentums and the Relentless monoblocks, plus the Progression amps, and Dartzeel monoblocks driving ML's, they are marvellous! On a totally different dimension! Clearly goes to show the significance of amplification.

Anyway, each person will have their preferences and varied musical tastes plus listening habits, so there's no one size fits all. As my very good mate, Robbo says, happy listening!

Cheers, and do enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Bruce B]

FWIW..... I paired my XA-100.5 amps with my wife's Maggie 1.7i speakers and found it was a perfect match. She was using a Parasound Halo Integrated and now wants a pair of Pass amps!!

 

[Tascam]

Ah! Nice one matey, the big Mac's.

A good mate over here, lives closeby, is a big Mac fan. Full array of several stereo amps, partnered with the C53, driving triple stacked Klipsch horns (Lascalla's). Also has various other Klipsch horns in the same room, so very passionate about Klipsch.... I would think?
Those things can reproduce something like 110dB with half a watt! So triple stacked... talk about dynamics! Blows the roof off! Including the neighbours roof!

So your ML's didn't have much dynamics and now they're placed in a home gym? Wow! What a luxurious gym! Keep those workouts pumping maaate!

BTW which Focals are those? Looks like the Sopra's...? Maybe not.

Note: there are a number of ML stats that are very dynamic and capable of high performance without flinching one bit. Such as:
Neolith, Ren15, 13A, 11A and Summit-X. Also the CLX's. There are many ML owners who have modded their stats, either into stacked versions, with modded subs or have incorporated multiple panels that are extremely dynamic. Just hop onto MLO (martin logan owners) forum and you'll come across some fantastic set-ups. A great deal to learn from that group, and they've been with ML's for decades. Oh! I forgot to mention the legendary ML Statements Evo-II's, plenty plenty of dynamics. So again, not all ML's, definitely not.

BTW, which ML's do you have that are lousy in dynamics? Also depends significantly on the amplifiers driving them. Some owners don't want heavy hitting dynamics, they're more into musicality with finesse, that's why I prefer the CLX's with tube amps. No other speaker I'd rather own, regardless of price. Although the Zellaton's are truly tops! Not yet a millionaire, maybe another lifetime.

Some have big Pass Labs amps, Dan D's Momentums and the Relentless monoblocks, plus the Progression amps, and Dartzeel monoblocks driving ML's, they are marvellous! On a totally different dimension! Clearly goes to show the significance of amplification.

Anyway, each person will have their preferences and varied musical tastes plus listening habits, so there's no one size fits all. As my very good mate, Robbo says, happy listening!

Cheers, and do enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

These new speakers are Focal Utopia Maestros. The old Martin Logans like all electrostatic units are limited in dynamics due to the design. A panel is not capable of moving enough air for great dynamics unless it’s a huge panel. I also thought they sounded a bit sterile and at high volumes, the sound stage falls apart. On the other hand, they have excellent transparency, a huge sound stage, and I could really hear the acoustics of the environment in which a recording was produced. The Focals are light years better in all other areas. BTW, I listened to the Sopras and the sound is very mediocre compared to the Utopias.

 

[Hear Here]

Some have big Pass Labs amps, Dan D's Momentums and the Relentless monoblocks, plus the Progression amps, and Dartzeel monoblocks driving ML's, they are marvellous! On a totally different dimension! Clearly goes to show the significance of amplification.

Lots of MLO people use Sanders Magtech to power their MLs. I'd not heard of this brand until I get involved with MLs myself, but you get a lot of power that's designed specifically for electrostatics. .

 

[Big Dog RJ]

FWIW..... I paired my XA-100.5 amps with my wife's Maggie 1.7i speakers and found it was a perfect match. She was using a Parasound Halo Integrated and now wants a pair of Pass amps!!

Outstanding mate!
What's even more Outstanding... your wifey!

Mine (bless her soul) after I'm going deaf or totally gone, she'd pile up all the gear and probably burn it! Of course she'll try to sell it off first but wouldn't be bothered by any sensible terms of pricing... afterall it's total madness this highend stuff (according to her) anyway but that's just her. Usually end up in the dog house after any justifiable upgrade/s. Then again, so far so good, last upgrade was last year. As for now, just enjoying those finest tunes.

Now that deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Lots of MLO people use Sanders Magtech to power their MLs. I'd not heard of this brand until I get involved with MLs myself, but you get a lot of power that's designed specifically for electrostatics. .

Yes, quite a number of stat owners use the Sanders amps. They've been around for quite a while and Roger S stands by his products. Also, his customer service & tech support is tops! Really looks after his customers, I would say overall, REAL VFM. And that maybe one of the reasons stat owners opt for his gear.

Many years ago, I helped a chap set up his Sanders Magtech in monoblock version, to drive his Stats that were in fact, Rogers own stat designed, called the Sanders stats. Even going back further, around the mid 90's Sanders stats were under a different name, called Inner Sound. That's also about the time I first heard the CLS and few years after, the ML Statements- Evolution. From that point onwards, I knew where I was heading.

The Sanders stats and his Magtech amplifiers are a very good combination, I would say a fantastic match up. It ticks all the boxes and the pricing is not exorbitant. Goes to show that you really don't need to sell your house to gain access to top quality amplifiers to drive the notorious impedence swing of stats.

Dan D's Momentums and Relentless amps, the Dartzeel monoblocks and Aries Cerat gear are the ones I've had awe-inspiring experiences with. Then comes their price tag...uh? And then comes Sanders Magtech, drives stats beautifully and life goes on!

Definitely highly recommended, top gear.

Cheers mate, enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

These new speakers are Focal Utopia Maestros. The old Martin Logans like all electrostatic units are limited in dynamics due to the design. A panel is not capable of moving enough air for great dynamics unless it’s a huge panel. I also thought they sounded a bit sterile and at high volumes, the sound stage falls apart. On the other hand, they have excellent transparency, a huge sound stage, and I could really hear the acoustics of the environment in which a recording was produced. The Focals are light years better in all other areas. BTW, I listened to the Sopras and the sound is very mediocre compared to the Utopias.

Points noted... but, you didn't mention which ML speaker you own...???

So, it seems like your experience with stats and panel type speakers is limited from just One pair of very OLD ML's!

This would omit any latest stat series from ML's, including Neoliths, CLX's and others, such as Alsyvox, Clarisys and Diptyque panels. Oh dear me, that's a huge presumption! I think the fuse at the Junction just blew.

Obviously Focals & other dynamic driver type speakers are years ahead of any "vintage design panels...." uh?

Anyway, happy to hear that you're enjoying the music, that's all that matters.
I'll leave it at that because I'd rather respect the OP's main topic, makes for more meaningful discussion.

All the best, RJ

 

[Tascam]

Ah! Nice one matey, the big Mac's.

A good mate over here, lives closeby, is a big Mac fan. Full array of several stereo amps, partnered with the C53, driving triple stacked Klipsch horns (Lascalla's). Also has various other Klipsch horns in the same room, so very passionate about Klipsch.... I would think?
Those things can reproduce something like 110dB with half a watt! So triple stacked... talk about dynamics! Blows the roof off! Including the neighbours roof!

So your ML's didn't have much dynamics and now they're placed in a home gym? Wow! What a luxurious gym! Keep those workouts pumping maaate!

BTW which Focals are those? Looks like the Sopra's...? Maybe not.

Note: there are a number of ML stats that are very dynamic and capable of high performance without flinching one bit. Such as:
Neolith, Ren15, 13A, 11A and Summit-X. Also the CLX's. There are many ML owners who have modded their stats, either into stacked versions, with modded subs or have incorporated multiple panels that are extremely dynamic. Just hop onto MLO (martin logan owners) forum and you'll come across some fantastic set-ups. A great deal to learn from that group, and they've been with ML's for decades. Oh! I forgot to mention the legendary ML Statements Evo-II's, plenty plenty of dynamics. So again, not all ML's, definitely not.

BTW, which ML's do you have that are lousy in dynamics? Also depends significantly on the amplifiers driving them. Some owners don't want heavy hitting dynamics, they're more into musicality with finesse, that's why I prefer the CLX's with tube amps. No other speaker I'd rather own, regardless of price. Although the Zellaton's are truly tops! Not yet a millionaire, maybe another lifetime.

Some have big Pass Labs amps, Dan D's Momentums and the Relentless monoblocks, plus the Progression amps, and Dartzeel monoblocks driving ML's, they are marvellous! On a totally different dimension! Clearly goes to show the significance of amplification.

Anyway, each person will have their preferences and varied musical tastes plus listening habits, so there's no one size fits all. As my very good mate, Robbo says, happy listening!

Cheers, and do enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

ML moved into

Points noted... but, you didn't mention which ML speaker you own...???

So, it seems like your experience with stats and panel type speakers is limited from just One pair of very OLD ML's!

This would omit any latest stat series from ML's, including Neoliths, CLX's and others, such as Alsyvox, Clarisys and Diptyque panels. Oh dear me, that's a huge presumption! I think the fuse at the Junction just blew.

Obviously Focals & other dynamic driver type speakers are years ahead of any "vintage design panels...." uh?

Anyway, happy to hear that you're enjoying the music, that's all that matters.
I'll leave it at that because I'd rather respect the OP's main topic, makes for more meaningful discussion.

All the best, RJ

SL3, but I have auditioned several others. Only the Neolith sounds good to me. Even the 15a doesn’t have the dynamics I’m looking for. The SL3 is now in my gym.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

ML moved into

SL3, but I have auditioned several others. Only the Neolith sounds good to me. Even the 15a doesn’t have the dynamics I’m looking for. The SL3 is now in my gym.

Ah! Yes the SL3 nice one mate.
Those were my very first ML stats, back in 93 when I was finishing up my undergrad in Chicago. There was a store located in Naperville, called Sound Lab. Bought my very first ML's with a Krell 150w integrated and Krell CD player, fab! Obviously decades have passed since including tech & build. The ML's of present are faaar from that era. Nonetheless, great stats indeed! The hallmark of ML's, apart from the older CLSIIz's.

Speaking of Focals and the French design tech, I also found the Diptyque ribbon panels to be really tops! Apart from the lofty pricing on Alsyvox and Clarisys for example, the Diptyque offer something quite special. Pricing is not too shabby either, fairly manageable I would say, nothing to sell the family car for...

My last trip to Spore, passing through the Adelphi show, they had the Diptyque driven by big Jadis monoblocks, really really tops! Superb! Something I'd seriously consider if my CLX's were no longer in operation. Anyway, that's another opportunity I think, have to see.
For now, just enjoy those finest tunes!

Thanks for your response & clarifications.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Henry B from Oregon]

Attn: HH

Ah! The infamous Quads! What other Stats gain so much recognition for their rich history, and yet absolutely shabby quality control in their later models coming out of the "certified" Chinese factory, absolute disaster!

During Peter Walker's time, those were my favourite ESL's of all time! After he passed away, that legendary vision of fine Electrostats was long gone, and the moment they were bought over by IAG and production commenced in China, all that Quad legacy was gone in a poof! I can write a Novel or even make a movie on Quad, based on my successes and sheer disasters with them but what's the point? I've already stated all my experiences with Quad on numerous occasions on other threads... so I'm tired of re-telling. So let's not go there.

Apart from that, yes! I'm not surprised at all on your findings in regards to better performance in your oval shaped room. In fact, that's the beauty of Peter Walker's design, he was a genius and absolute legend! PW's designs in Electrostats date way back early 50's. He had developed many prototypes and kept perfecting them even after the original ESL 57's. Those 57's would Arc often if over-driven and didn't sound too flash if under-driven. There were no protection circuits for over-load and pretty much quite a simple Electrostat in design. After about a decade, PW developed several new technologies and enhanced its design from top to bottom, such as:
1. Concentric ring anodes
2. Delay coils
3. Protection circuits
4. Added fuses
5. New HT tranny (High Tension) transformers made in England! Not China...

With these types of installations, PW's new stat design took full flight and the E Quad ESL 63's were the hallmark of Quad. The rest is history, and which way it went after his passing is a crying shame. Only those who are very passionate about Quads and ESL's in general, will know exactly what I'm referring to, and there's a handful of Stat experts who can refurb Quads to glorious levels, including the original 57's and 63's. However, this is a rare breed and most probably will be extinct, since it requires a very high skill. The time and effort it takes to refurb full range stats is a labour of love, it's no ordinary job and I've seen it done in my previous home during my ownership of the 989, 2905 and 2912's. Everything was basically changed internally except for the external structure, that's the only good thing from their new production facility. The outside looks tops! The inside... hell no!.

With these added techs built into all the Quads in production after the ESL 63's, enhanced their performance without a doubt, however it was reliability and durability amongst the biggest factors of multiple failures. That's something no one could fix, other than of course that passionate group of ESL techies.

Quads have a very unique dispersion pattern, incorporating the concentric ring anodes and delay coils, it allows the rear wave energy to virtually float in space, recreating a remarkable level of soundstage depth and perception. The further the Quads are away from the back/front wall, the depth in soundstage has a limitless expansion. They can virtually make the walls disappear! Also, with their delay coils, the signals are purposely delayed... this technology adds further depth and creates a presence of a full 3D holographic affect, where you can reach out and touch the musicians. It's marvellous!

So, in your particular room with virtually no walls in proxy... the Quads worked quite well since they don't heavily rely on walls to reinforce their performance. They're quite happy playing fine tunes regardless of critical positioning, and they'll continue to reproduce fine tunes with limited resources to ideal room settings. Way back In the 50's, when people owned ESL 57's, the majority of installation was just one Electrostat speaker! It was only after several iterations took place, that Quad started introducing two as in pairs for proper stereo setup. Even the 57's could play quite nicely, placed well away from walls.

The other thing with Quads and especially the newer production from IAG, is that now those Quads have four layers of protection on top of internal protection circuitry to protect from panel arcing.
1. There's one layer of fabric material.
2. Then the metal frames
3. A very thin transparent film of cling wrap on both front and back of each stat panels.
4. And finally the actual Stat panels (4 in the smaller ones (988, 2805 & 2812's) and 6 panels in the larger ones (989, 2905 & 2912's)

These layers also form a sort of reinforce stat cabinet type of enclosure so to speak. Therefore, there's some sort of structure either braced and glued, before the actual signal leaves the stat panels, passes through the transparent films of cling wrap, plus through all those layers of dust protection, plus the delay coils and ring anodes, thatcause a ripple effect, like a point source, and finally launches into the room. Walls... ? well not very critical, other than perhaps to reinforce a bit more LF.

Now, let's consider ML stats: there are no layers of dust protection whatsoever! No fabric, no metal guards, no damn cling wrap, and you can see right through the bloody panels!!!
These are the most transparent Electrostats on earth! They don't have delay coils nor concentric ring anodes whatsoever, and they're true dipoles that radiate equal energy front & back, and yes they require some sort of walls or structure to perform optimally because they're completely and utterly box-less, and totally free from any cabinet resonances or colorations. You can see right through the panels 100%, and their latest Clear Spars and Micro-perf stators made of X-stat and blade tech, comprising of several types of alloys, allows for even further levels of transparency!

Very similar to Maggie's, Alsyvox, Diptyque and Apogee's, true dipoles all require proper wall structures to perform optimally. Otherwise, they'll sound hollow! Like a woodpecker pecking away in a hollow tree.

Now, which type of Electrostats are better? I can't determine that, simply because everyone will have their personal preferences and varied listening tastes, listening habits, different gear and most of all completely different rooms! So the choice is yours. And... moving forwards, you now have AG Horns! Nice one matey.

Cheers, RJ

Again, as a newbee I don't know if this is the right place for the discussion, but RJ's Quad saga reminds me that part of my definition of a 'good match' in amplification for my ML CLX Arts and iDescent (which has its own power amp) has to start with musicality, first and foremost, but include reliability and service-ability, as well.

My first experience with the 'high end' started in 1977 (yes, I'm old) with GAS electronics paired with Dahlquist DQ-10's and their matching crossover+subwoofer. [By the way, the other speaker contender for me at the time was a Koss Electrostat hybrid! I guess I've always loved the transparency and midrange detail of stats...] Anyway, loved the sound but GAS folded pretty quickly and, after many trips to get Ampzilla repaired, I finally threw up my hands and grabbed a mid-fi SAE amp so I could at least enjoy some music until I had the time, energy, and funds to make my next major upgrade, which was around the year 2000.

The Classe/Martin Logan combinations (ReQuest follwed by current CLX Arts) have been wonderfully musical and pleasantly durable, although it's now time to upgrade my 25 year old amplification. But, in the interim, the theater side of the house has seen a series of finicky pre/pros, including two Classes, leading me to, again, I throw up my arms and decide a reliable Anthem mid-fi pre/pro and 3 channel amp was preferable to lots of downtime and frustrating repeat visits to repair shops.

So, in starting my due diligence on modern amplification, thanks to RJ's suggestions, I coincidentally ran across an article in the new Stereophile (at least the newest one to arrive in SW Oregon) which had a couple of pages on the Soap Opera that Classe has been involved with for the past decade. Most recently the entire R&D/engineering organization in Montreal has been terminated and all that's left are the brand and three existing products (two Delta amps and one pre-amp) made in their Japanese factory. I gather their sales outlets hope for continued sales/service from Marantz, which was part of the consortium (that also including B&W). All had changed hands a few times before landing with Masimo in 2022. Masimo stock has dropped by 2/3, activist investors are buying board seats, and the CEO is letting the blood fly freely, starting with Classe. I'm sure there's more than the elimination of development and engineering at Classe to come.

Anyway, I don't think I'll be auditioning Classes now! On to Pass Labs. But I'm interested how much reliability means to the rest of you!

Cheers,
Henry

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: Henry B

Ah... another blissful owner of CLX Art's! Life is wonderful after all... or at least we do try to make the best out of it.

Oh, now I understand the episode of Classe' gear. In fact, I was wondering what ever did happen to the extensive range they used to have. I first heard of Classe' back in that same store in Naperville IL, where I first purchased those ML SL3's and the Krell gear. That store also had Classe' on offer, apart from ML of course, they also had NHT speakers, and PSB I think it was. Apart from Krell & Classe', they also had tube gear, and one of those was C-J! Which I exclusively use to this very day. Talk about history in the making... wow, and this is going back to the early 90's. Anyway, as stated by Henry, things have changed... times have changed, the whole world has changed! Whether this is for better or for worse, I really don't know. There are far too many unwanted dramas going on, unnecessary corporate shenanigans... and on top of that, absolutely meaningless wars, and things are escalating rather than deescalating, honestly mate, this is getting out of hand.

On a much brighter note: All I can say is, do enjoy those fine tunes! After all, music is good for the soul and it has healing powers, especially when it fully immerses your senses and you're totally engaged with the presentation. Now this maybe in various shapes & forms... from SS gear to tube gear, ribbon & stat panels, to dynamic driver types & horns... whatever gives you the highest level of satisfaction from your favorite recordings, at the highest level of fidelity that you can afford. After that, there's nothing more to it!

The reliability factor, in terms of customer service and tech support is becoming very rare these days, such that I have come across inconsistencies over the decades. Even taking into account some of the more well known makes, their tech support is slipping. The cracks are starting to show, and I tend to stay away from such brands, regardless of their performance. OTOH, I've always found it most useful to have access to highly skilled techies, which is also rare these days. John Hall, our very own Quad whisperer is no more in contact, I was very very fortunate to get all my pairs of Quads fixed and promptly sold.

My long term trusted C-J techie is getting tired now. He's inundated with fixing very highend gear, and simply doesn't have the time to turn things around as quickly as compared to in the past. Parts are getting scarce, and according to him, it seems that the bigger well known gear, don't repair or fix anymore, they just replace the entire unit. Seems to be easier rather than ship parts, fit & fix... this process takes too long. As far as he can provide the required tech support that I need on my C-J tube gear, I will continue using CJ. The moment he tells me to call it a day, and he's gone fishing, that's when SS alternatives will be considered.

We also have Graz up north in QLD (Queensland) who refurbs / rebuilds Apogee's, and he's still going strong but not too sure if anyone has shown keen interest to carry on Graz's legacy in true Apogee restoration. So, now we have various models of that original Apogee design... Clarisys is one and it costs a fortune! Either way, Apogee original or Clarisys or Alsyvox... I truly do hope they can all sustain in the long run. Graz has had a very good business model here and he's probably the only one who's true to the actual repair and rebuild of Apogee ribbon speakers. Like I said, this trade is getting rarer by the year. In time to come, they'll be long gone.

So, until such time, do enjoy those fine tunes! Tread cautiously and make wise decisions. Don't get carried away by the hype, it only lasts until the candle is out.
WOOF! RJ

** Keep us posted on your amp quest Henry, I'm sure you'll find the right one soon**