Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?

[caesar]

Caesar

I must admit that I agree with Ron here. Spectral with Wilson sounds superb

In fact at the recent Cali Audio Show my vote for best room was MAXX llls with Spectral

Steve, I have no doubt they do. And I am sure that there are many other combinations to make the speakers sound great. But it just doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective. The purpose of marketing or any business, for that matter, is to create a customer. Customers are confused by the many products that are out there in our hobby, and companies do not have enough resources to target every single customer. As a result, the most successful companies choose a position in the market place that will make them the most profit. The market position is a perception. But if it can be backed up, it has more power. Through the years, Wilson has staked out a position as a speaker that sounds "real". Wilson gets this across using big VTL or ARC amps, and now with D'Agostino amps. Magico, on the other hand, has staked out a position as a speaker that best brings out what is on the recording. Magico usually shows with Soulution or with Spectral for this reason.

The bottom line is that if a company is clear about who they are, who their customer is/ what the customer is looking for, and the unique benefits the company can offer the customer (especially compared to the competitor), the company can be much more successful. Wilson seems to have lost (or is possibly unclear) about their positioning.

 

[caesar]

I highly doubt that most folks who state claims about "closer to the master tape" have ever heard said master on the recording studio's reference system. Subtle differences in audio are usually expressed as preferences, not absolutes.

Lee

I agree. There probably not a lot and this phrase is used colloquially, kind of like a reference to an "electrostatic midrange" in just about every review. But at the same time, there are some that do. Isn't one of the Spectral guys a recording artist?

 

[caesar]

The big question is what means exactly "to be true to the recording". Duplicate the sound in the control room? Recreate the life experiment that generated the recording? Neither of the preceding?

That's a great question, Microstrip. The guys I have talked to always refer to duplicating the sound of the studio.

 

[caesar]

Mostly his ubiquitous presence and self promotion. The legend is definitely greater than the collective body of work IMO.

Gregadd, I agree with the self-promotion bit. But Dave Wilson ushered in the high-priced, high end speaker industry with fancy car paints, etc. I haven't seen the numbers (these are privately owned companies), but I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson were the most successful audio company in the world. Magico, on the other hand is fairly new. The have been getting a lot of buzz the last few years, but most of it has been during the Great Recession. I have no doubt they are doing very well, but they would be doing much better if they had gotten this publicity during better economic times. However, Magico has also been making a lot of mistakes in their marketing and partner relations. It's getting pretty late, and I will start a new thread on their marketing and business gaffes and screw-ups tomorrow.

 

[Gregadd]

Like I said it's my opinion.

 

[Ron Party]

That's a great question, Microstrip. The guys I have talked to always refer to duplicating the sound of the studio.

Caesar, thanks for answering Micro's question. May I ask a follow up question in light of the above-quoted reference? Do you have any understanding as to what is meant by "the sound of the studio"?

 

[mauidan]

To answer to the OP's question: Is Wilson losing their marketing edge? IMO, no. DW has established a brand name and a reputation for performance, quality and service that is second to none.

 

[JackD201]

Hmmmm. Lemme see.

I used to imagine Spectral gear was all speed and no torque. This was a result of their own marketing efforts some time back. I said "used to" because when I finally did hear a bunch of different Spectral equipment my imagined personification of a lab tech on crystal meth flew out the window, did a triple sommersault with a twist and landed on its head.

After hearing Spectral gear I can't imagine why going to show with them would be a bad thing at all. They've got the body and resolution that can and does bring out emotions in the musical content.

If anything, this pairing with Wilson which may seem odd because Spectral is usually associated with Avalon (again because of that team-up including ASC and MIT) has gotten people talking. This thread is proof of that. The reactions are also in defense of the match up. That's some positive word of mouth. If this was intentional, I give Wilson some more marketing points not less.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hmmmm. Lemme see.

I used to imagine Spectral gear was all speed and no torque. This was a result of their own marketing efforts some time back. I said "used to" because when I finally did hear a bunch of different Spectral equipment my imagined personification of a lab tech on crystal meth flew out the window, did a triple sommersault with a twist and landed on its head.

After hearing Spectral gear I can't imagine why going to show with them would be a bad thing at all. They've got the body and resolution that can and does bring out emotions in the musical content.

If anything, this pairing with Wilson which may seem odd because Spectral is usually associated with Avalon (again because of that team-up including ASC and MIT) has gotten people talking. This thread is proof of that. The reactions are also in defense of the match up. That's some positive word of mouth. If this was intentional, I give Wilson some more marketing points not less.

Actually Wilson and Spectral have shown together numerous times at many shows over the years. One of Wilson's biggest dealers in the East, Overture, has always used
Spectral electronics with the big Wilsons in their store.

 

[microstrip]

Well, I first would answer your question with a question: why ask me? Why didn't you ask Caesar, the OP, who first used that exact language as part of what I then called a false dichotomy and as such this was the ground for my appearing in this thread? Did you understand the term when he used it but then get confused when I repeated it?

Now as to your question, I am unclear on your terminology. What is the "sound in the control room"? What is "life experiment that generated the recording"?

As Caesar was expressing preferences about a particular system I never listened to there was no reason to address the issue any more - neither the "dichotomy" or "straw man" debate.

But your simple, strong and general statement seemed interesting enough to call my attention, as I have been reading about it in Toole book "Sound Reproduction". I will come back later on it.

 

[es347]

No way do I want to accurately reproduce the live concert sound in my room. I'm basing that on most of the concerts I've attended recently.... high levels of distortion, kick drums that cause arrhythmia, undecipherable vocals. The best an a'phile can hope for is something close to what was heard in the studio.

 

[fas42]

No way do I want to accurately reproduce the live concert sound in my room. I'm basing that on most of the concerts I've attended recently.... high levels of distortion, kick drums that cause arrhythmia, undecipherable vocals. The best an a'phile can hope for is something close to what was heard in the studio.

Which, again, is why good audio can be "better" that the real thing, in many cases by a huge margin ...

Frank

 

[vinylphilemag]

No way do I want to accurately reproduce the live concert sound in my room. I'm basing that on most of the concerts I've attended recently.... high levels of distortion, kick drums that cause arrhythmia, undecipherable vocals. The best an a'phile can hope for is something close to what was heard in the studio.

I think those that talk of reproducing live concert sounds in their room are referring to unamplified orchestral concerts, rather than a stadium rock concert.

 

[Bruce B]

I can't think of a single recording/mastering studio that has Magico. I can name several with Wilson though.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

As Caesar was expressing preferences about a particular system I never listened to there was no reason to address the issue any more - neither the "dichotomy" or "straw man" debate.

But your simple, strong and general statement seemed interesting enough to call my attention, as I have been reading about it in Toole book "Sound Reproduction". I will come back later on it.

Do Wilsons have a bass hump? Really? I understand that speakers are the weakest link in the chain and their designers are almost always choosing their compromises, but a glaring, engineered distortion like a bass hump would seem pretty absurd in a speaker like a Wilson at the price point of a Wilson. And to be honest, the last time I heard a pair, very well set-up in a small showroom dedicated to one 2-channel system (with Spectral electronics, by the way), I heard no bass hump to speak of. They were just a tiny bit on the warm side overall, but still among the clearest, most precise big passive speakers I've heard. But nothing I'd call a bass hump. Perhaps it is set-up dependent. Big passive floor standers typically have a foundation that amounts to a big passive sub. Not the best driver control in the world and no ability to place that bass unit, or individually adjust it for its best response in-room.

As far as the rest of this thread is concerned, it's the same old argument wrapped in a couple of brand flags. And you all know my position.

Tim

 

[mauidan]

As far as the rest of this thread is concerned, it's the same old argument wrapped in a couple of brand flags. And you all know my position. Tim

I don’t know your position. Are you standing, sitting or laying down?

 

[microstrip]

I think those that talk of reproducing live concert sounds in their room are referring to unamplified orchestral concerts, rather than a stadium rock concert.

I do not speak for others, but +1.

 

[microstrip]

I can't think of a single recording/mastering studio that has Magico. I can name several with Wilson though.

Until he got the JMLab Grande Utopia EM, Paul Stubblebine had the Maggico Reference active 4 way active system at his mastering studio. One of the few dream systems using tubes that could have the blessing of our super moderator Phelonious Ponk, as "Directly connecting the power amplifier to the drivers’ voice coils, with no intervening capacitors and inductors, confers a huge advantage in sound quality." (quoted from the avguide review of the Maggico Ultimate)

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

"Directly connecting the power amplifier to the drivers’ voice coils, with no intervening capacitors and inductors, confers a huge advantage in sound quality."

You betcher bippy.

Tim

 

[Bruce B]

Until he got the JMLab Grande Utopia EM, Paul Stubblebine had the Maggico Reference active 4 way active system at his mastering studio. One of the few dream systems using tubes that could have the blessing of our super moderator Phelonious Ponk, as "Directly connecting the power amplifier to the drivers’ voice coils, with no intervening capacitors and inductors, confers a huge advantage in sound quality." (quoted from the avguide review of the Maggico Ultimate)

Makes you wonder why he got rid of them. I can't seem to recall when he had them in there. Must have been only for a short time.

Here's a pic of the speakers I thought that Alon had built him before the Focals.