Japanese SET amp compete with other high end brands

[bonzo75]

Good to hear your experience on this. My point is that I have found Japanese designs including SETs to be wholly balanced, particularly Zanden...such that even if their technical merits in one category or another may not match other designs...the overall balance is done very well so that once one stops the shoot-out comparisons, the Japanese designs present such a balanced musical whole, one stops caring. I find Zanden, Shindo, Robert Koda and from my limited experience Kondo to fall squarely into this category.

I find all quite different. Shindo is quite coloured. RK is SS, Kondo when well done is emotional and balanced, and Zanden is quite hifi in a negative sense.,

 

[DasguteOhr]

I find all quite different. Shindo is quite coloured. RK is SS, Kondo when well done is emotional and balanced, and Zanden is quite hifi in a negative sense.,

Shindo used to use unpainted carbon resistors. When the humidity in the room changed, the resistors had different values. A friend once had a preamp and power amplifier. When things weren't going so well, you had a different sound every day. But it can also be exciting and varied.

 

[LL21]

I find all quite different. Shindo is quite coloured. RK is SS, Kondo when well done is emotional and balanced, and Zanden is quite hifi in a negative sense.,

Yes, technically they are...but I also find each one extremely well balanced in whole presentation of music whereas there are many other designs in which I do not find this to be the case. That is a unique character I respect about Shindo, Kondo, RK and Zanden.

For example, listening to Clapton on Shindo, I knew that his voice seemed artificially overemphasized relative to other preamps...but listening to Clapton alone with nothing other to compare it to, the Unplugged album just sounded great. And whether it was a touch of color or not, I found the overall presentation great. Did I prefer CJ? Yes, and that is why I did not go Shindo, but if all I had was Shindo, over time, I could easily have gotten along well with it for years.

 

[andromedaaudio]

6moons.com - industry features: A special Zanden Audio event In Hong Kong

 

[LL21]

6moons.com - industry features: A special Zanden Audio event In Hong Kong

Thank you! Great article and have read that before...in fact, i was just texting Chris and spoke with one of his colleagues as well about the latest Zanden digital...the Seikoh which is due out in 2025. Apparently, Yamada San's final say on the digital realm. I was told the transport is Redbook only...but the DAC enables hi-res inputs separately.

 

[Tam Lin]

Shindo used to use unpainted carbon resistors. When the humidity in the room changed, the resistors had different values.

Similar to using cotton wire insulation and cotton cores to wind coils.

 

[Rensselaer]

Lamm Industries make incredible stuff that explains the incredible price. Audio Note UK, in my humble opinion, charges an incredible price to convince folks they make incredible stuff (and some of it most certainly is). I’ve heard upper end Shindo and was blown away. Too bad the materials used inside prevent sales (in the UK anyway). I have never heard Yamamoto but I believe Kedar said they sound good. I bought (unheard) a Kondo Audio Note Ongaku copy, that uses Tango transformers but copper wire, from Ken Uesugi of Otomon Labs (Sound Gate) in Japan. Some distortion heard if volume up too much, but at normal listening levels it is the best-sounding amplifier I ever owned. Cost £5500 shipped, without valves, a darn bit less than a real Ongaku. Just saying.

My System

Actually, I got that wrong, Kedar isn't a big fan of Yamamoto, Yamamura speakers, however, is a different story/

 

[Tonari]

Leben has a huge fan club. I remember when I sold my Leben RS-28CX preamp I delivered it to the buyer, his living room was already full of Leben equipments including 2 same RS-28CX preamps !

Leben Hi-Fi Archives - Jeff's Place

jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com

Sadly (and strangely) they don't make any SET amplfiers.

 

[Rensselaer]

Leben has a huge fan club. I remember when I sold my Leben RS-28CX preamp I delivered it to the buyer, his living room was already full of Leben equipments including 2 same RS-28CX preamps !

Leben Hi-Fi Archives - Jeff's Place

jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com

Sadly (and strangely) they don't make any SET amplfiers.

My Leben CS300Xs, after I rolled the tubes to NOS Amperex, sounded great despite not being SET.

It is not “What’s Best”, however it is a bit magical (especially when partnered with the RS-30EQ Phono stage) and if partnered with a nice MM (like Nagaoka MP-500) and decent speakers or headphones (has a jack) should keep the most jaded audiophile quite satisfied for the rest of their listening times.

 

[gian60]

I always loved Japan SET and was in my systems since 1989.

In 1978 i had a preamp Hal amp with ARC D 90 B

Then from 1989 i had a Yamamura pre and amp,all mono with external power supply for total 8 pieces and 300 kg weight with all trans in superpermalloy and pushpull of 211.More than amazing.

Then all the top line,old 8601 preamp and 8502 PP 300 B WE mono from Audiotekne and the new line 9501 pre and Yamato mono amp with PP of 211,FAL integrated with pp 2A3.

ANJ pre M7 and M 10 and amp and Neiro,Neiro Silver,Shinri, Baransu ,Kageki,Gakuon and Ongaku and Kondo M7 ksl,Ongaku KSL,Neiro KSL,GE10,G 70,new Ongaku,Souga,IOM,IOXP,SFX.
Tried at home also 2 weeks Melius.

Sakuma was in Milan around 1994 and i stay 3 days with him and brought some amp to Milan to listen and to sell,my friend bought,i was no interest because preamp and phono was only mono,the sound and dynamic was amazing but not natural like ANJ and Audiotekne

Mactone M8V,otl 100 watt mono,very good but not natural like the previous.

I had also Uesugi pre,phono and amp,Shindo pre Petrus and Catherine with amp Pavillon Rouge,Shinonia and WE 300B Limited
Good for the price second hand but far from others

Listened Sun Audio and Air Tight 211 and 300B ,not expensive but not very good

A good choice today Otomon,good quality and good price.

 

[Rensselaer]

I always loved Japan SET and was in my systems since 1989.

In 1978 i had a preamp Hal amp with ARC D 90 B

Then from 1989 i had a Yamamura pre and amp,all mono with external power supply for total 8 pieces and 300 kg weight with all trans in superpermalloy and pushpull of 211.More than amazing.

Then all the top line,old 8601 preamp and 8502 PP 300 B WE mono from Audiotekne and the new line 9501 pre and Yamato mono amp with PP of 211,FAL integrated with pp 2A3.

ANJ pre M7 and M 10 and amp and Neiro,Neiro Silver,Shinri, Baransu ,Kageki,Gakuon and Ongaku and Kondo M7 ksl,Ongaku KSL,Neiro KSL,GE10,G 70,new Ongaku,Souga,IOM,IOXP,SFX.
Tried at home also 2 weeks Melius.

Sakuma was in Milan around 1994 and i stay 3 days with him and brought some amp to Milan to listen and to sell,my friend bought,i was no interest because preamp and phono was only mono,the sound and dynamic was amazing but not natural like ANJ and Audiotekne

Mactone M8V,otl 100 watt mono,very good but not natural like the previous.

I had also Uesugi pre,phono and amp,Shindo pre Petrus and Catherine with amp Pavillon Rouge,Shinonia and WE 300B Limited
Good for the price second hand but far from others

Listened Sun Audio and Air Tight 211 and 300B ,not expensive but not very good

A good choice today Otomon,good quality and good price.

Please clarify, when you say Uesugi pre, are you saying Ken Uesugi of Otomon?

It is just that you followed “Uesugi” with saying “good for the price but far from the others” … and then you say, “A good choice today Otomon, good quality and good price”.

Good choice, but “far from” Yamamura, Audiotekne, Yamato, Kondo, Melus, Mactone?

 

[gian60]

15/20 years ago i had pre Uesugi U Bros 18,you can see in the photo,and the phono U Bros 20,that was the original Uesugi

Now Otomon there are some in South of Italy and i never seen but some told have good quality and reasonable price

 

[Rensselaer]

15/20 years ago i had pre Uesugi U Bros 18,you can see in the photo,and the phono U Bros 20,that was the original Uesugi

Now Otomon there are some in South of Italy and i never seen but some told have good quality and reasonable price

View attachment 142684

I have a Ken Uesugi Otomon/Soundgate Ongaku copy (coper, not silver with Tango iron) which sounds pretty good (though I would guess just a shadow of the original Kondo Ongaku), for £5500.00 new and shipped to me in the UK for £500.00. I had to supply the valves.

In my opinion, a very good price considering you get a hand-built Ongaku (in copper) with Tango transformers for 20% of the cost of a Kondo. And, like the Kondo, I don’t need a separate pre-amplifier.

 

[Agrail]

My personal favourite integrated amp.

That HSFA 0-1 is probably the best bargain sound for £ I've heard in a long time.

 

[pr1nce]

Can these amps compete with higher-priced brands like Lamm Industries or Audio Note? Why are they significantly less expensive? I understand that incorporating silver parts tends to drive costs sky-high, but not all models rely on silver components.

I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

I never had Lamm amplifier but overall I've owned more than 30x different tube amplifiers, mainly small and medium power amps starting with 2W 45 type tube monoblocks, up to ~22W with 845 SE or 211 SET.
In my opinion Japanese manufacturers are working on much smaller margins, often focusing on domestic market. They source most of the parts locally in Japan and are purchasing them for with good discounts. Often they are one man show or very small family and friends kind of company (Sun Audio, shindo, Kondo, Reimyo) . They dont live to make a big business, its a different mentality than in EU or US. Also please remember that Japanese respect their local market much more than any market outside. I imported tons of stuff from Japan (CEC, Acrolink, Esoteric, Accuphase, Kryna, Acoustic Revive) due to the price difference. All Japanese products locally in Japan have MSRP maximum 50% of what they are in EU or US. OK. but I am moving aside from the topic.

Good sounding tube amp requires: knowledge, experience and good parts and this can be found in various parts of the world. I owned amorphous, Permalloy and regular iron from Tamura (F5000, F7000 and F2000 series) - they are good sounding, but Lundahl is not so far behind and if we speak about amorphous transformers - locally in Poland there is a guy who years ago was making much better sounding transformers than Tamura F5000 series, and they were cheaper too.
I remember when I ordered from him a pair of 40W output transformers. Single primary winding and single secondary, over 45H inductance! (Tamura had less than half) and this parameter is critical for energy storage and therefore bass response. I could talk for hours about this topic.

Your question is very open and if you want YES or NO response - then YES, Japanese amps can easily compete with any other made in US or EU. On the other hand Japanese amps dont have to be better than the ones made in EU. But its true that in Japan the culture of building tube amps is much bigger than anywhere else and this result it higher experience and often - better results.

I hope you are aware of what you really want and seek for. This is the difficult part - to really be aware what are you searching for.

I had the most fun with Sun Audio SV-2A3 amplifier. I had three units during the years and first one was simply out of this world. I purchased it locally in Poland for 1300 USD 14y ago. It had Black Gate WKZ main filter cap, special combination of BG N, BG STD and VK inside, Allen Bradley carbon resistors and Jensen Copper caps. With Destination Audio horn speakers I had that time it sounded great! Loved that amplifier.

Later I had many amps and biggest dissapointment was Air Tight ATM-211 monoblocks. Lack of body, drive, power, thin sounding and non involving. Chinese Line Magnetic on 845 tubes was to my taste much more fun to listen to.

Out of the Kondo range I was highly impressed with Kondo Souga on RCA set of tubes. It had sparkle, liquidy and smoothnes like nothing else I heard. Ongaku was boring for me, noninvolving. For music recorded till the end of 70s I would say that a smartly restored Scott 299A with EL84 tubes can sound outstanding well. Ask if you have any questions.

 

[mtemur]

I never had Lamm amplifier but overall I've owned more than 30x different tube amplifiers, mainly small and medium power amps starting with 2W 45 type tube monoblocks, up to ~22W with 845 SE or 211 SET.
In my opinion Japanese manufacturers are working on much smaller margins, often focusing on domestic market. They source most of the parts locally in Japan and are purchasing them for with good discounts. Often they are one man show or very small family and friends kind of company (Sun Audio, shindo, Kondo, Reimyo) . They dont live to make a big business, its a different mentality than in EU or US. Also please remember that Japanese respect their local market much more than any market outside. I imported tons of stuff from Japan (CEC, Acrolink, Esoteric, Accuphase, Kryna, Acoustic Revive) due to the price difference. All Japanese products locally in Japan have MSRP maximum 50% of what they are in EU or US. OK. but I am moving aside from the topic.

The problem with amplifiers bought from Japan is the 100VAC requirement. You are actually listening the step down transformer (230V to 100V) not the amp. This also applies to other audio equipment. There is no way to overcome this situation.

 

[Rensselaer]

The problem with amplifiers bought from Japan is the 100VAC requirement. You are actually listening the step down transformer (230V to 100V) not the amp. This also applies to other audio equipment. There is no way to overcome this situation.

Unless the “Japanese” amp is built to order for the customer’s voltage from the get go (like my Ongaku copy from Ken Uesugi of OTOMON (Soundgate) in Japan.

 

[mtemur]

Unless the “Japanese” amp is built to order for the customer’s voltage from the get go (like my Ongaku copy from Ken Uesugi of OTOMON (Soundgate) in Japan.

Of course. in that case it won't be a Japanese version anymore but a US version or EU version. More importantly it won't be %50 of the retail in US which was stated in the OP.

All Japanese products locally in Japan have MSRP maximum 50% of what they are in EU or US.

 

[djsina2]

The problem with amplifiers bought from Japan is the 100VAC requirement. You are actually listening the step down transformer (230V to 100V) not the amp. This also applies to other audio equipment. There is no way to overcome this situation.

Depends. I have Audio Tekne 100v amp and pre but I also have an Audio Tekne step down. Imai says there’s no sound quality difference.

 

[Rensselaer]

Of course. in that case it won't be a Japanese version anymore but a US version or EU version. More importantly it won't be %50 of the retail in US which was stated in the OP.

Actually, I think I still got it for a very good price. Not an original Ongaku, nor of silver, but a custom built Ongaku copy with Tango transformers £5500 delivered to the UK (minus valves) is pretty good.