John DeVore on the Grey Market and OCD Mikey

[Audire]

I’m still wondering why post #106 wasn’t done at the time the original video went up yesterday?

 

[Audire]

one would assume that the OP Lee had not already asked Verastarr (OCD Mike) to comment when he opened the thread and posted the video without any comment other than the thread title. so there was a time lag for Mike to be notified and for him to respond. in the meantime the thread moved forward. not judging the sequence, just how it now appears to have happened. the way of the world wide web and on line forums. stuff gets posted then we meander from there.

You misunderstand. OCD Mikey was already responding to the YT video before Lee posted it on WTB. OCD Mikey had an opportunity to respond hours before Lee posted the video. He didn’t!!! Devore's video was actually on at least two other audio forums before WTB …

OCD Mikey didn't make a defense of his actions when the original video was posted. Only hours later is he mounting a defense in which he still hasn’t answered the main question!!!

 

[PeterA]

Lee said Mike is his friend. Why would he post the video without first discussing it with Mike? I would never do such a thing without talking to my friend first. J D’s account is pretty damaging. I’m curious for Mike’s explanation about the motive behind the video, the posting on this thread for thread , and the answer to the question about whether or not he bought the speakers for the client at an accommodation price. Lots of questions here. And why create the video and following discussion six years after the fact?

 

[oldvinyl]

How many high-end audio designs go through HALT-HASS testing? How many high-end products have been through HALT-HASS chambers? Have any idea what that is? High-end audio designs are not rigorously designed or developed. Not even close. I don’t think audiophiles understand what is involved in the design and development of ultra high reliability and ruggedized products. The building and stuffing of PCB boards in China and installation in fancy aluminum shiny boxes is a walk in the park. Wouldn’t be surprised if the software and firmware are outsourced to India in many of these products. Many of them run of core designs Tom Eastern Europe and then are customized.

Highly accelerated life test.
Highly accelerated stress screening, derived from HALT results. Sometimes referred to as environmental stress screening or ESS.

I want my SET to pass DO-160 environmental qualification test!

 

[Audire]

but we here don't know about all that other forum stuff, and your post did not explain you were referring to other forums, and his lack of response there. we are....here.

just speculating, that the relative decorum of WBF was a less chaotic place to respond for him. not that this forum is not just as interested in the truth and accountability, but that our culture is less chaotic, less a free for all. i guess we wait for him to respond to the clear question presented.

I don‘t work for you. So, you need to do own research!

It’s apparent on the Original YT post which I made comment upon earlier. It’s also visible that Lee didn’t post this until at least 6+ hours later than at least two other forums that were discussing it - AN & AS.

Mikey was already responding to the original YT video. But in his responses he NEVER made a defense of his actions. ... I’m wondering why? He instead simply stated if one doesn't like his actions than they don’t need to purchase from him … Now hours later we are given an excuse, which still hasn’t answered the real question?

 

[rob]

Lee said Mike is his friend. Why would he post the video without first discussing it with Mike? I would never do such a thing without talking to my friend first. J D’s account is pretty damaging. I’m curious for Mike’s explanation about the motive behind the video, the posting on this thread for thread , and the answer to the question about whether or not he bought the speakers for the client at an accommodation price. Lots of questions here. And why create the video and following discussion six years after the fact?

I have to agree with you here Peter. I can't quite understand why Lee would make this post when Mike is his friend?

Maybe he new about this situation well before J.D's video was posted and wanted Mike to respond here for everyone to see, almost making out J.D's video to be not accurate?

Also did Mike purchase speakers at accommodation price for a client?

 

[the sound of Tao]

I have to agree with you here Peter. I can't quite understand why Lee would make this post when Mike is his friend?

Maybe he new about this situation well before J.D's video was posted and wanted Mike to respond here for everyone to see, almost making out J.D's video to be not accurate?

Also did Mike purchase speakers at accommodation price for a client?

It’s odd. If it’s a PR exercise it’s not a good one.

 

[Rt66indierock]

The questions I’d like answered.

• Lee, why did you post this?
• To John DeVore, is the grey market hurting your company so badly you need to defend your dealers from people undercutting them publicly?
• Mike, did you purchase the speakers as an accommodation, or did you purchase them with the intent to resell them?
• Alan, under what circumstances did you addition the speakers and decide to purchase them from Mike?

 

[rob]

It’s odd. If it’s a PR exercise it’s not a good one.

Saving face, damage control ?

 

[Verastarr]

LOL, wow really ? Why are we even having this conversation then ? There would be NO DE VORE VIDEO, now WOULD THERE ??... OK, let me spell it out for the people that cant seem to grasp what happened. My previous company sold a pair of speakers at full price to a customer in a single isolated incident 6 years ago. My company represented no speaker brands at the time and this was a one time sale that I said was for us to use. (the big lie). I decided to stick my neck out and get a product to serve a client. There's never an issue with these sales unless the item shows up on the second hand market before a year. This happened due to the mental breakdown of the client who was too embarrassed to ask me for a refund, which I would have done as he states in the letter above. There was no agreement with Devore either verbally or in writing. I apologized and made it good 6 years ago. There was a full Expose written about it in a Stereophile sub publication 6 years ago and I was named and crucified. This matter was over and done with then. Is this clear enough ?? Get it ??

 

[Verastarr]

You misunderstand. OCD Mikey was already responding to the YT video before Lee posted it on WTB. OCD Mikey had an opportunity to respond hours before Lee posted the video. He didn’t!!! Devore's video was actually on at least two other audio forums before WTB …

OCD Mikey didn't make a defense of his actions when the original video was posted. Only hours later is he mounting a defense in which still hasn’t answered the main question!!!

I was going to ignore this shit. I need to answer to nobody. After Lee called and told me he posted it here and wanted me to post my response, I came here and decided to address this old ass closed thing.. Is this a place where we dig up old crap people have done and drag them through it again ?? Want me to start ?? Ive got PLENTY of dirt from 23 years in the business, but i chose not to engage in this type of crap...

 

[Verastarr]

I don‘t work for you. So, you need to do own research!

It’s apparent on the Original YT post which I made comment upon earlier. It’s also visible that Lee didn’t post this until at least 6+ hours later than at least two other forums that were discussing it - AN & AS.

Mikey was already responding to the original YT video. But in his responses he NEVER made a defense of his actions. ... I’m wondering why? He instead simply stated if one doesn't like his actions than they don’t need to purchase from him … Now hours later we are given an excuse, which still hasn’t answered the real question?

Whats the "excuse" ??? Go ahead ...

 

[djsina2]

Verastarr, just another scammer in the audio industry. Shocking.

 

[Verastarr]

The questions I’d like answered.

• Lee, why did you post this?
• To John DeVore, is the grey market hurting your company so badly you need to defend your dealers from people undercutting them publicly?
• Mike, did you purchase the speakers as an accommodation, or did you purchase them with the intent to resell them?
• Alan, under what circumstances did you addition the speakers and decide to purchase them from Mike?

I purchased with intent to resell..

Lee said Mike is his friend. Why would he post the video without first discussing it with Mike? I would never do such a thing without talking to my friend first. J D’s account is pretty damaging. I’m curious for Mike’s explanation about the motive behind the video, the posting on this thread for thread , and the answer to the question about whether or not he bought the speakers for the client at an accommodation price. Lots of questions here. And why create the video and following discussion six years after the fact?

EXACTLY... why was this posted 6 years after the fact ? its to get you guys riled up and create drama.. In my opinion, it shows how the media is used as a weapon to hurt others. Slander and Libel were even employed in this case

 

[Verastarr]

Verastarr, just another scammer in the audio industry. Shocking.

Exactly.. along with the jerks that think they are qualified enough to judge others without the facts. Only issue here is nobody lost any money nor got ripped off..

 

[Ron Resnick]

I purchased with intent to resell..

Hi Mike!

Thank you for responding to Lee's invitation, and explaining here.

 

[Lee]

A few things to keep in mind:

1. I posted this without comment because I figured we would wait on Mike’s side of the story. I repeatedly said this in subsequent responses.

2. I reached out to Mike earlier today for comment and that led to his reply here. On that call I learned that this was an event from six years ago.

3. Mike and I have talked since and we remain friends and my only goal was to get to the truth.

 

[PeterA]

So OCD Mikey got the speakers at an accommodation price and sold them to a client with presumably a profit. The client gets a good deal, OCD Mikey gets a good deal, and they were caught. OCD Mikey apologizes everyone gets the money back. What they did was wrong. Hopefully everyone learns a lesson. And they move on.

But it is brought up six years later. Why is that? It creates drama as OCD Mikey says. It creates eyeballs and content and activity on an audio forum to push up the numbers to get more ads.

It is also a story about the industry versus the little independent guy who is increasingly in competition with the main stream. The interests of the high-end industry seem to be promoted here and defended.

People who talk about this can be squashed by moderators and people with more influence. Earlier today a former member quit because of censorship. No explanation. Another member was temporarily banned with the explanation sent via the direct message system which he of course cannot access because of the ban.

Things are changing and somehow I feel there is more to the story.

 

[Audire]

Verastarr, just another scammer in the audio industry. Shocking.

Yes, with no other facts I must agree! And the scammer in my mind is …!

The questions I’d like answered.

• Lee, why did you post this?

I don’t know why Lee posted this topic, but it was ALREADY in other audiophile forums with several comments BEFORE he posted it!

• To John DeVore, is the grey market hurting your company so badly you need to defend your dealers from people undercutting them publicly?pp

JD has no obligation to respond to anyone! An injustice is simply an injustice!

• Mike, did you purchase the speakers as an accommodation, or did you purchase them with the intent to resell them?

Yes, we‘d like to know the true answer. A simple YES or NO will do!

• Alan, under what circumstances did you addition the speakers and decide to purchase them from Mike?

Read the entire series carefully, and one will see this was already answered!

 

[Lee]

So OCD Mikey all of the speakers at an accommodation price and sold them to a client and presumably a profit. The client gets a good deal, OCD Mikey gets a good deal, and they were caught. OCD Mikey apologizes everyone gets the money back. Hopefully everyone learns a lesson. And they move on.

But it is brought up six years later. Why is that? It creates drama as OCD Mikey says. It creates eyeballs and content and activity on an audio forum to push up the numbers to get more ads.

It is also a story about the industry versus the little independent guy who is increasingly in competition with the main stream. The interests of the high-end industry seem to be promoted here and defended. John Devores video is about protecting legitimate business practices.

People who talk about this can be squashed by moderators and people with more influence. Earlier today a former member quit because of censorship. No explanation. Another member was temporarily banned with the explanation sent via the direct message system which he of course cannot access because of the ban.

Things are changing and somehow I feel there is more to the story.

Objectively, it seems nobody looks good here. Mike made a big lie to get favorable pricing and he bent the accommodation rules but John is making a video six years later, after a Stereophile expose, but everyone seems to have been made whole.

It bothers me that Mike has to go through this again six years later. I don’t agree with what happened but why dredge it up again?