Sorry Aziz, I have not demo'd VSA speakers. Traditionally, ceramic drivers have not been my favorite material but I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I think the DAW is probably Wilson's best loudspeaker for sane money. The measurements in Stereophile confirm some significant design changes have occurred for a much more coherent speaker with accurate bass.
KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search
- Thread starter KeithR
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Sorry Aziz, I have not demo'd VSA speakers. Traditionally, ceramic drivers have not been my favorite material but I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I think the DAW is probably Wilson's best loudspeaker for sane money. The measurements in Stereophile confirm some significant design changes have occurred for a much more coherent speaker with accurate bass.
Since Zu Definition and Dominance have come up in this thread, and Keith has been a Zu owner in the past and has expressed interest in hearing next versions, I am posting an update here.
Zu Definition 6 was to have been introduced at RMAF in Denver, in September. In a late-breaking development, that did not happen and it turns out there were some good reasons for the delay. The small, practical consideration was difficulty getting the Hypex sub amp working hum-free, worldwide. This was particularly troublesome in Singapore and the UK, but also sporadically in the US, without much rhyme nor reason. So, some more time had to be spent resolving the power amp choice for the sub. That was the minor reason for missing RMAF. The major reason was convergence of design thinking pertaining to a new Dominance as well as Definition 6. In a spasm of activity late summer, Sean crystallized his thinking about a new Dominance and built a pair for the owner of the original Dom.
The original Dominance from a decade ago was an imposing, 360 lbs. speaker with a vast, aluminum monocoque, faceted baffle. The speaker used three Zu FRDs with two Radian compression supertweeters, and IIRC two 15" sub drivers. The faceted baffle gave Dominance the combined focus and tonal purity of a Druid, with the scale (well, even more) and dynamic bloom of Definition (again, even more so). And deep bass performance beyond both. It was the best speaker I ever heard. At the time, it sold for $60,000 / pair.
As the audio business made its slow recovery from the Crash, an updated Dominance took a back seat to designs for two new Druids (5 & 6), along with steady improvements to the bread-and-butter lines. And a successor to Definition 4 was inadvertently put on a meandering design and delivery path. Now both are nearing resolution.
First, the common theme: Both Dominance II and Definition 6 will be missing the Radian 850 supertweeter. Instead, both speakers will use the latest Zu FRD with a new supertweeter in coax configuration, ala the diminutive Zu Cube, but with a much better supertweeter. This has sonic and packaging advantages, and requires a new level of custom assembly of the combined coax FRD. Sonically, combing in the existing Definition dual FRD design and larger original Dominance, is reduced, and the new supertweeter is flat out to 30kHz, whereas the smooth Radian's rolloff begins below 20kHz. Sean believes the new supertweeter is smoother still. The coax drivers can also be spaced more closely than in the past.
I think this is highly encouraging. If you've never heard nor seen the Zu Cube it is a 10"x10"x10" sealed box speaker with a basic Zu FRD stuffed with a coax supertweeter. It is a distinctly higher resolution speaker than the more popular Omen and Dirty Weekend speakers in its price realm, but one thing that cuts into its popularity compared to the others is that its resolving power demands a better amplifier than the more forgiving, easygoing Omen. The Cube also shows rapid falloff in low end response, below 60 Hz. But when you strap Cubes to, say, a Druid 6-worthy amp, they sing. This new coax Zu is crafting is far beyond Cube's.
Dominance II dispenses with the faceted baffle in favor of a flat front, to eliminate the original Dominance's too-tight sweet spot. The coax drivers and spacing achieve the Druid-like focus without faceting the baffle or fixing the sweet spot too narrowly. Dominance II retains the three-front-facing FRDs of the original, which means now three supertweeters. Powered sub duties are now split. 60Hz - 20Hz range is handled by four 10" drivers, side-mounted, two per side. Range below 20Hz is by two 12" drivers, side mounted, one per side. The 10" sub array will be on a low pass filter as in the past. Then the 12" array below 20 Hz will simply have an acoustic roll-off on its top end, to match the low end of the 10" array. So, 12 drivers per speaker, still sans crossovers. The Zu FRD shoulders the ~40Hz - 12kHz zone. Dominance II is about 13" wide in front, with the sides splayed 15° out from the front panel. Depth is 26 inches. The canted sides make the sub arrays visible from the face-on-view. I don't have a final height yet but it will be taller than Definition's 49" and somewhat shorter than original Dominance. The new speaker weighs 110-120 lbs. less than the original for around 240 lbs net. This will be a six figures speaker. Some final cosmetics are still being noodled, particularly wrt how the side mounted drivers are presented or masked, but the first pair have been built and are installed and in use in a home listening setting. That owner reports (as does Sean) the new Dominance is a serious leap forward from the original, which I would expect given what's happened to Druid now twice in the intervening decade. I am sure same will apply to Definition 6.
Definition 6 will keep its form factor, in the interest of keeping its product-brand proposition of "most performance possible in one-square foot of floorspace." It will gain all the cabinet construction advances in Druid 6, and the various noise and gain problems that cropped up in the powered sub module in Definition 4 are now eliminated in 6. Drivers will be the same 10" coax as in the new Dominance, so two supertweeters per speaker now instead of one with main drivers mounted more closely together. In another change, the high pass filter for the supertweeters will use a Jupiter oil capacitor instead of the long-standard Clarity cap. Definition may creep up in price a bit, but will remain under $20,000.
You can expect both of these speakers to gain (well, exceed) the advances in transparency, dynamic punch, speed and vividity evident in Druid 6 over Druid 5. The new extended-range supertweeter will also bring some of the benefits of true ultrasonic supertweeters. Dominance will likely have default wiring for 16 ohms impedance, as this will expand the population of amps that will sound good with it, compared to the alternative 4 ohms load. Sean is considering offering switchable impedance if he can find an appropriate rotary switch that isn't degrading to sound.
First availability of both speakers in final form is expected for April/May of this year, which I am reasonably confident of given that all the design and execution issues have been resolved, and an initial pair of Dominance II have already been built. I will be hosting a Zu listening event for both to be heard in a home environment in Los Angeles, around that time. All for now. More to come.
Phil
Zu Definition 6 was to have been introduced at RMAF in Denver, in September. In a late-breaking development, that did not happen and it turns out there were some good reasons for the delay. The small, practical consideration was difficulty getting the Hypex sub amp working hum-free, worldwide. This was particularly troublesome in Singapore and the UK, but also sporadically in the US, without much rhyme nor reason. So, some more time had to be spent resolving the power amp choice for the sub. That was the minor reason for missing RMAF. The major reason was convergence of design thinking pertaining to a new Dominance as well as Definition 6. In a spasm of activity late summer, Sean crystallized his thinking about a new Dominance and built a pair for the owner of the original Dom.
The original Dominance from a decade ago was an imposing, 360 lbs. speaker with a vast, aluminum monocoque, faceted baffle. The speaker used three Zu FRDs with two Radian compression supertweeters, and IIRC two 15" sub drivers. The faceted baffle gave Dominance the combined focus and tonal purity of a Druid, with the scale (well, even more) and dynamic bloom of Definition (again, even more so). And deep bass performance beyond both. It was the best speaker I ever heard. At the time, it sold for $60,000 / pair.
As the audio business made its slow recovery from the Crash, an updated Dominance took a back seat to designs for two new Druids (5 & 6), along with steady improvements to the bread-and-butter lines. And a successor to Definition 4 was inadvertently put on a meandering design and delivery path. Now both are nearing resolution.
First, the common theme: Both Dominance II and Definition 6 will be missing the Radian 850 supertweeter. Instead, both speakers will use the latest Zu FRD with a new supertweeter in coax configuration, ala the diminutive Zu Cube, but with a much better supertweeter. This has sonic and packaging advantages, and requires a new level of custom assembly of the combined coax FRD. Sonically, combing in the existing Definition dual FRD design and larger original Dominance, is reduced, and the new supertweeter is flat out to 30kHz, whereas the smooth Radian's rolloff begins below 20kHz. Sean believes the new supertweeter is smoother still. The coax drivers can also be spaced more closely than in the past.
I think this is highly encouraging. If you've never heard nor seen the Zu Cube it is a 10"x10"x10" sealed box speaker with a basic Zu FRD stuffed with a coax supertweeter. It is a distinctly higher resolution speaker than the more popular Omen and Dirty Weekend speakers in its price realm, but one thing that cuts into its popularity compared to the others is that its resolving power demands a better amplifier than the more forgiving, easygoing Omen. The Cube also shows rapid falloff in low end response, below 60 Hz. But when you strap Cubes to, say, a Druid 6-worthy amp, they sing. This new coax Zu is crafting is far beyond Cube's.
Dominance II dispenses with the faceted baffle in favor of a flat front, to eliminate the original Dominance's too-tight sweet spot. The coax drivers and spacing achieve the Druid-like focus without faceting the baffle or fixing the sweet spot too narrowly. Dominance II retains the three-front-facing FRDs of the original, which means now three supertweeters. Powered sub duties are now split. 60Hz - 20Hz range is handled by four 10" drivers, side-mounted, two per side. Range below 20Hz is by two 12" drivers, side mounted, one per side. The 10" sub array will be on a low pass filter as in the past. Then the 12" array below 20 Hz will simply have an acoustic roll-off on its top end, to match the low end of the 10" array. So, 12 drivers per speaker, still sans crossovers. The Zu FRD shoulders the ~40Hz - 12kHz zone. Dominance II is about 13" wide in front, with the sides splayed 15° out from the front panel. Depth is 26 inches. The canted sides make the sub arrays visible from the face-on-view. I don't have a final height yet but it will be taller than Definition's 49" and somewhat shorter than original Dominance. The new speaker weighs 110-120 lbs. less than the original for around 240 lbs net. This will be a six figures speaker. Some final cosmetics are still being noodled, particularly wrt how the side mounted drivers are presented or masked, but the first pair have been built and are installed and in use in a home listening setting. That owner reports (as does Sean) the new Dominance is a serious leap forward from the original, which I would expect given what's happened to Druid now twice in the intervening decade. I am sure same will apply to Definition 6.
Definition 6 will keep its form factor, in the interest of keeping its product-brand proposition of "most performance possible in one-square foot of floorspace." It will gain all the cabinet construction advances in Druid 6, and the various noise and gain problems that cropped up in the powered sub module in Definition 4 are now eliminated in 6. Drivers will be the same 10" coax as in the new Dominance, so two supertweeters per speaker now instead of one with main drivers mounted more closely together. In another change, the high pass filter for the supertweeters will use a Jupiter oil capacitor instead of the long-standard Clarity cap. Definition may creep up in price a bit, but will remain under $20,000.
You can expect both of these speakers to gain (well, exceed) the advances in transparency, dynamic punch, speed and vividity evident in Druid 6 over Druid 5. The new extended-range supertweeter will also bring some of the benefits of true ultrasonic supertweeters. Dominance will likely have default wiring for 16 ohms impedance, as this will expand the population of amps that will sound good with it, compared to the alternative 4 ohms load. Sean is considering offering switchable impedance if he can find an appropriate rotary switch that isn't degrading to sound.
First availability of both speakers in final form is expected for April/May of this year, which I am reasonably confident of given that all the design and execution issues have been resolved, and an initial pair of Dominance II have already been built. I will be hosting a Zu listening event for both to be heard in a home environment in Los Angeles, around that time. All for now. More to come.
Phil
Phil, this is probably better suited to the dedicated Zu threads. Maybe move it there?
Re subs hum, well this is an unresolved issue I've had. Looks like Sean finally has a solution.
Dominance 2 sounds like a beast, and priced to match. Can Zu really crack the $100k+ barrier? Noone other than you has this much confidence in the brand. I love Zu as you know, but 100+ big ones is a big ask for a company famed as "blue collar high end".
Definitions 6 looks a real proposition at $20k. Twin FRDs w concentric extended supertweeters, that's fascinating.
What is the subs complement on new Defs 6?
Re subs hum, well this is an unresolved issue I've had. Looks like Sean finally has a solution.
Dominance 2 sounds like a beast, and priced to match. Can Zu really crack the $100k+ barrier? Noone other than you has this much confidence in the brand. I love Zu as you know, but 100+ big ones is a big ask for a company famed as "blue collar high end".
Definitions 6 looks a real proposition at $20k. Twin FRDs w concentric extended supertweeters, that's fascinating.
What is the subs complement on new Defs 6?
Dear Phil,
Thank you for chronicling for us the detailed and comprehensive design evolution of those Zu speakers! Very interesting!
I am looking forward to hearing the Dominance II!
Thank you for chronicling for us the detailed and comprehensive design evolution of those Zu speakers! Very interesting!
I am looking forward to hearing the Dominance II!
Jeffrey, I'd really value your feedback, plus Keith and any other WBF guys who can make it. Phil as host, obv. Our tastes in presentation aren't a million miles apart, and choice in music is close too.
As a potential buyer for the Definitions 6, any idea on if they've successfully addressed issues on ultimate transparency and seamlessness would be welcome. Have they managed to meld their hugely immersive and addictive tonal density with a proper audiophile sense of lack of spkr character and proper transparency/neutrality.
Thoughts on Dominances 2 would be cool too. Twelve drivers per side to sound as one/point source is some trick.
As a potential buyer for the Definitions 6, any idea on if they've successfully addressed issues on ultimate transparency and seamlessness would be welcome. Have they managed to meld their hugely immersive and addictive tonal density with a proper audiophile sense of lack of spkr character and proper transparency/neutrality.
Thoughts on Dominances 2 would be cool too. Twelve drivers per side to sound as one/point source is some trick.
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I look forward to hearing the new versions when Sean finally delivers. I'm betting RMAF earliest.
As far as the dream speaker search, my two favorite auditions in 2019 were the YG Sonja 2.2 and AG Duo XD. A change in residence and employment took the latter half of 2019 off the table, so 2020 will be a true, fresh start. Will see what happens as I turn my head back to audio, stay tuned fellas!
As far as the dream speaker search, my two favorite auditions in 2019 were the YG Sonja 2.2 and AG Duo XD. A change in residence and employment took the latter half of 2019 off the table, so 2020 will be a true, fresh start. Will see what happens as I turn my head back to audio, stay tuned fellas!
Keith, those Devore References land in yr lounge for close to $100k. As will the Dominances 2.
Is this bravery or foolhardiness from small scale brands normally under the radar?
Is this bravery or foolhardiness from small scale brands normally under the radar?
I doubt value brands going upmarket usually works and they will only sell a few (perhaps Asia). Pitch Perfect Audio, one of the larger Devore dealers, didn't have any Reference orders as of Thanksgiving.
I guess that's better than Magico selling a $99 clock radio Lol. No matter how good the audio.
Sean has specific advantages in trying for a six figures position in speakers. First, the design work is done and it got done because new Dominance scales up everything learned over now-20 years of continual refinement of Zu FRD-based speakers at three through five figures. This was also true of original Dominance, when the monocoque aluminum baffle was a new thing for Sean but it was combined with drivers already chosen and tested with Definition 4, just more of them. All the materials research, trial-and-error, build techniques, nano-tech, etc. already performed for the the big leap in Druid 6 finds its way upward into Def6 and Dom2. The new innovation prompted by Dom2 that trickles down to Def6 is the new 30kHz supertweeter packaged coaxially in the FRD. And finally, Zu has the supplier relationships to have one-off cabinetry built and has his own paint booth, so Dominance doesn't materially involve anything exotic or orthogonal to what the company already knows how to do in building everything else above Omen in the line. So he can build one pair or 10 pair or 50 pair of Dom2, as long as he can pace the fulfillment of orders. He built the first pair for himself, to prove the design to himself and had a ready customer. Now, we'll see who else is in. He really can't fail, because he's not betting the company on the outcome. Whatever demand for Dominance 2 there is, there is. Meanwhile, the speaker got designed and built because, well, it just had to be.
Phil
Phil
As you say Phil, it's a "trickle UP product". Zu have evolved a very specific ethos and engineering approach, refined materials and construction, and replicate/vary the recipe across the range. Now with a view to break the expectation barrier of the company. So, what works in the Druid is amended and evolved to the Definitions, and then rocket boosted for the Dominances.
Unlike say Cessaro that started big w maybe the Gammas, and then had to find ways to scale down and not lose too much magic.
Unlike say Cessaro that started big w maybe the Gammas, and then had to find ways to scale down and not lose too much magic.
Hi Keith, Are you still leaning Hailey 2.2s? I agree with your assessment: "very coherent, with micro dynamics unlike many of its peers, and really paints an incredible landscape for electronica, classical, etc." I made the leap last year and am so glad I did, for my room. A significant leap over the 1.2s imho. Excited for your continued search in 2020!
Yes, my plan is to hear the Hailey 2.2 again but in a normal-sized room to see if that narrows the playing field between it and its superb big brother.
If that isn't my final cup of tea, I will only look to higher efficient speakers. Interestingly enough, my local Devore/Harbeth/JBL/Klipsch Heritage dealer is becoming the next YG Acoustics dealer.
Vivids aren't under consideration, but thanks. They look like Dr. Seuss characters to me, sorry.
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