KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[asiufy]

The 60W quote came from Yoav Geva, the designer, not the reviewer. Obviously YG can't control or dictate what the reviewer uses.
Again, what does Soulution have to do with YG?
I mean, YG has been shown around the world with everything from Audio Research to Boulder, and lots of stuff in between.

 

[213Cobra]

With a $32,000 amp Solution amp that delivers 280 watts into 4 ohms. YG's assertion that he designs speakers to work with 60 "good watts" is laughable.

The ARC 160M wasn't able to sound clean and clear at any volume level. The Luxman was better but struggled well below 95db. Yoav says he designs for as little as 45 watts. Maybe that will work in a 5'x5' closet. I think the speakers and a folding chair will just fit. The first 60 watts will take up permanent residence in the crossover, buy furniture, put their feet up and laze about. The next 60 will make it into the drivers' motors and begin to croak out sound. At that point you still need 4X more to make music.

95db might seem rare & loud for an apartment dweller, but in a detached house, not so unusual. Keith is now in a detached house. So 95db is happening more often, certainly when he is home alone or making a decision about a new speaker (and when Danny Kaey visits).

Phil

 

[andromedaaudio]

Let him answer that. There's enough people speaking for Keith in this thread, so I won't do that.

They try hard to convert him back to ZU s , but " keith aint listening"

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well Phil, I need a second system in the tiny boot room here...

 

[spiritofmusic]

They try hard to convert him back to ZU s , but " keith aint listening"

That ship has sailed.

 

[morricab]

Objectively, it IS the best speaker out there, there's not much left to be critical about! The low efficiency is not ideal, but when setup properly I don't hear any issues with it, with the crossovers, etc. The price is also on the high side, but the manufacturing really is cost-no-object, it's amazing what they're willing to go through to produce the parts they use.

I think even Morricab would be impressed if he heard an optimal YG system. It's a good reminder that there are many paths to nirvana, SETs and horns aren't the only way.

I heard this speaker in Munich (I think it was this model) with Nagra's HR monos and other Nagra gear. It was actually pretty good, so I think I have heard it setup and driven correctly. Didn't make my top 5 sounds at the show but at least I remembered it .

I heard the smaller Carmel 2 at the high end Swiss show last year powered by an all Brinkmann system (with their mono amps, which are one of the nicest sounding SS amps I have heard...I actually like them). Now normally the distributor showing that system pairs it with a Vandersteen middle range model and it is usually one of the better sounding systems at the show. I often go to hear it because that combination makes a pleasing and fairly high resolution sound (particularly with a Brinkmann Balance TT). This year with the Carmel 2 though the sound was small and lacking body. Deep bass was surprisingly good but midbass punch and mids lacked so the sound kind of sat there. In fact, one of the younger guys who was running that room (the main guys are older...late 50s I guess) kept showing up in our room...sometimes for 30 minutes or more. There was one track the younger guy played in his room from a group called Tonik Ensemble (Powers of Ten) that he demoed on vinyl that sounded pretty cool and not bad on the Carmels...until we played on the Dynamikks Athos 10 with AC gear and the sound exploded into the room and was all enveloping with deep elastic bass. The guy heard it in our room and was stunned. Later, after the show I asked them how they thought the Carmels performed and they said they wished that they had the Vandersteens in the system but they were working with someone that year who was distributing the YGs. Maybe the Brinkmanns were underpowered but the room was small and we sat close so it should have done ok.

For 17.5K I would take the Dynamikks Athos 10 and the 17.5K AC Genus and a 12.5K Helena DAC for the price of the Haleys...but that is just IMO. This speaker is really a beast at only about 40 inches high and gives a very high resolution, enveloping sound...the coax driver is superb.

 

[bonzo75]

The Nagra YG room in Munich is so unfair to the potential of YG. I don't know why people quote such examples from Munich.

The Carmel is for very small rooms and does mot l not obviously have the oomph of the bigger speakers

 

[morricab]

I think you also have to understand I was comfortable leaving tube amps because of my disability and struggle with tube reliability. Can fully see someone who won't do that ignore the YG route.

But also remember how many high efficiency speakers I've heard (unlike others) and how much better the Haileys 2 are pretty much than all of those designs. I would take YG over Tune Audio, Voxativ, Zu, Devore, (obviously), JBL, etc. that I auditioned. The only ones I liked were the AG Duo XD which won't work in my room and I had reservations about bass quality/coherency.

Right now, I'm quite comfortable trying this path and seeing where it leads me. I'll also say, look at the kinds of people near me who now like YG speakers. Trust me, Phil or Jeff or Ron even liking a YG is pretty surprising. I'd also note the local Harbeth/Devore/JBL/Klipsch horn dealer is taking on the line and the AG dealer in London feels its the best dynamic driver speaker out there.

I think it is great that you have found what you liked well enough to replace the Devores. The only experience I have had with YG that I would consider to be really positive was with your speaker model and Nagra electronics (Munich show). As a final stopping point maybe Nagra Classic amps and their Jazz preamp could be the ticket (I think the HR stuff is very pricey). Another one to consider would be Brinkmann monos but I suspect in your room they would run out of gas...but they sound really good for SS.

 

[morricab]

The Nagra YG room in Munich is so unfair to the potential of YG. I don't know why people quote such examples from Munich.

The Carmel is for very small rooms and does mot l not obviously have the oomph of the bigger speakers

The Carmel was in a very small room (<15 square meters) and at that price it should offer something as a giant killer.

The Nagra Munich room was pretty fair I think and didn't paint the YGs in a bad light. Can it be setup better? Probably but it can also likely be setup a lot worse...I have heard that.

 

[asiufy]

You are so defensive on everything YG it's not worth engaging with you. Good luck Alex.

I'm just trying to be factual, and bring real "live" experience with the product. Like you do with the brands you're interested in and that you have experience with, like PBN, which I think are very positive contributions.
I just don't think it's fair or correct when people with little to no experience with the product start writing about it like they're experts on it. Again, it'd be like me start giving opinions on PBN after hearing their product 2-3 times.

 

[morricab]

The ARC 160M wasn't able to sound clean and clear at any volume level. The Luxman was better but struggled well below 95db. Yoav says he designs for as little as 45 watts. Maybe that will work in a 5'x5' closet. I think the speakers and a folding chair will just fit. The first 60 watts will take up permanent residence in the crossover, buy furniture, put their feet up and laze about. The next 60 will make it into the drivers' motors and begin to croak out sound. At that point you still need 4X more to make music.

95db might seem rare & loud for an apartment dweller, but in a detached house, not so unusual. Keith is now in a detached house. So 95db is happening more often, certainly when he is home alone or making a decision about a new speaker (and when Danny Kaey visits).

Phil

And by the time you have pumped 60 watts into those voice coils they get nice and toasty and thermal compression becomes an issue...requiring ever more power...

 

[DaveC]

I've heard YG at YG and their excellent setup at RMAF 2019 most recently. Both were some of the best sound I've ever heard from a stereo system.

The Carmels are small speakers and if you could criticize YG for one thing it's the amount of speaker you get for the cash, personally I would hesitate to consider one below the Hailey 2.2 unless it was for a very small room.

 

[DaveC]

And by the time you have pumped 60 watts into those voice coils they get nice and toasty and thermal compression becomes an issue...requiring ever more power...

IDK... I tend to believe Yoav, the designer of the speakers... I have a hard time believing the results described in this thread are typical and would urge Keith to call the power company for an inspection.

 

[morricab]

I've heard YG at YG and their excellent setup at RMAF 2019 most recently. Both were some of the best sound I've ever heard from a stereo system.

The Carmels are small speakers and if you could criticize YG for one thing it's the amount of speaker you get for the cash, personally I would hesitate to consider one below the Hailey 2.2 unless it was for a very small room.

They have this new Vantage, that looks like Haley but has less trademarked technology inside, so I guess it is quite a bit cheaper?? That might be the alternative to a Carmel if price and not space was the main issue.

 

[DaveC]

They have this new Vantage, that looks like Haley but has less trademarked technology inside, so I guess it is quite a bit cheaper?? That might be the alternative to a Carmel if price and not space was the main issue.

Agreed, it seems like they are trying to offer more speaker for less $ with the Vantage, a good move imo!

 

[bonzo75]

The Carmel was in a very small room (<15 square meters) and at that price it should offer something as a giant killer.

The Nagra Munich room was pretty fair I think and didn't paint the YGs in a bad light. Can it be setup better? Probably but it can also likely be setup a lot worse...I have heard that.

The Nagra under drives the YG. I have compared it next to a burmester 909. YG needs loads of drive to come alive. YG can also sound hard or brittle if not set up properly, often at shows

 

[morricab]

IDK... I tend to believe Yoav, the designer of the speakers... I have a hard time believing the results described in this thread are typical and would urge Keith to call the power company for an inspection.

I tend to believe physics and measurements from Stereophile that showed at least two models from YG were overrated by about 3db in sensitivity. I also know that non-professional drivers tend to not be optimized for resistance to thermal compression and therefore will start to compress rather early and coupled to low sensitivity means by 60 watts it will have clearly begun.

 

[morricab]

The Nagra under drives the YG. I have compared it next to a burmester 909. YG needs loads of drive to come alive. YG can also sound hard or brittle if not set up properly, often at shows

Sorry, but these speakers are not Apogee Scintillas...the impedance of YG is not too tough and while not very sensitive it is also not abysmal.

 

[andromedaaudio]

May be the distributor has both nagra and YG in the portfolia hence the match

 

[asiufy]

I've heard the combo in Munich (Hailey/Nagra), sounded fairly good, in spite of the huge room size and the noisy arrangement they had going (it was a big open space, with a meeting area in the back, with no partition).
We should have the Nagra amps sometime soon for a test run, as I'm curious to hear how they'll do in our room.