Well, 13 in some ways was a greater success than 11.
But 11 is the role model re launches.
But 11 is the role model re launches.
KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search
- Thread starter KeithR
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In that case, fingers crossed. Just not in the direction of Apollo 1 or 13. Any other would be pretty spectacular.
Quick update on room musings and YG pairings:
My dealer afforded me the opportunity to hear the Nagra Classic monos in my system this weekend. He hadn't heard the system since install last February, due to the pandemic, so it was a great time to get together!
As far as my install, he feels my system lacks some depth and bass weight. Depth is hard to change on the long wall with only 14' to play with and a skylight that seems to suck bass if you move the speakers past the 18" or so mark from the front wall. We had flipped the room to the short wall when I moved in and it created other functional/aesthetic issues and so that isn't an option. Weight in the bass is pretty obvious from a simple FFT showing a 60-100hz dip. Subsequent to his visit, I tried stuffing the fireplace, but it really didn't change much on the weight side and I'd say actually made the room less snappy. I might try putting a piece of plywood in front of the fireplace next and see what happens. The idea being that the fireplace is sucking some life out of the sound.
On the Nagras, they really are beautiful amps. I've owned a PLL back in the day and selling it was one of my bigger audiophile regrets. I also recently heard the little BPS phono stage in my analog rig which sounded wonderful. The amps are bridged to 200w per channel (8 ohms, not rated into 4) and use very few output transistors (2 or 4, I forget), but it was explained to me that they don't have the corresponding output impedance increase that usually happens and that often is detrimental to sound. The amps, despite heavy class A bias, warmed up for an hour and weren't room heaters at all, such as the Pass (and even the Rowland ran hotter to the touch) I had tried previously.
Sonically, it was more of a mixed bag and that I ultimately prefer the Luxman and D'agostino amps that this dealer usually shows with YG. It was a tonally neutral amp with a somewhat light balance. What the Nagra did really well was paint a 3d, very resolute picture. I could hear more undulations in Cecille Salvant's voice for instance and it seemed wider dimensionally. That said, I didn't feel as engrossed by the sound and that dynamically things felt limited and therefore the notes didn't have the decay or flow that is important to me. On my favorite Chopin track, I just didn't get the piano hammer thunder and articulation that I prefer. Soundstage was more in between the speakers, than freedom from them on Everything But the Girl. I know Nagra is paired with YG in the EU and have even heard a full Nagra HD stack on Sonjas locally which shared some similar traits (but an unfamiliar room). My personal opinion is that these amps would pair better with a Wilson Sasha DAW or similar speaker - think more efficiency, paper drivers, etc. Nagra themselves designs with Verity.
Anyways, this is another benefit of working with a good, local dealer. He mused he had wished he brought up the D'agostino too
And to be totally fair, he felt the Nagras sounded better in my system. I'm actually quite interested in a Nagra front end (dac, preamp, external PSU) so that may be in cards for the future.
My dealer afforded me the opportunity to hear the Nagra Classic monos in my system this weekend. He hadn't heard the system since install last February, due to the pandemic, so it was a great time to get together!
As far as my install, he feels my system lacks some depth and bass weight. Depth is hard to change on the long wall with only 14' to play with and a skylight that seems to suck bass if you move the speakers past the 18" or so mark from the front wall. We had flipped the room to the short wall when I moved in and it created other functional/aesthetic issues and so that isn't an option. Weight in the bass is pretty obvious from a simple FFT showing a 60-100hz dip. Subsequent to his visit, I tried stuffing the fireplace, but it really didn't change much on the weight side and I'd say actually made the room less snappy. I might try putting a piece of plywood in front of the fireplace next and see what happens. The idea being that the fireplace is sucking some life out of the sound.
On the Nagras, they really are beautiful amps. I've owned a PLL back in the day and selling it was one of my bigger audiophile regrets. I also recently heard the little BPS phono stage in my analog rig which sounded wonderful. The amps are bridged to 200w per channel (8 ohms, not rated into 4) and use very few output transistors (2 or 4, I forget), but it was explained to me that they don't have the corresponding output impedance increase that usually happens and that often is detrimental to sound. The amps, despite heavy class A bias, warmed up for an hour and weren't room heaters at all, such as the Pass (and even the Rowland ran hotter to the touch) I had tried previously.
Sonically, it was more of a mixed bag and that I ultimately prefer the Luxman and D'agostino amps that this dealer usually shows with YG. It was a tonally neutral amp with a somewhat light balance. What the Nagra did really well was paint a 3d, very resolute picture. I could hear more undulations in Cecille Salvant's voice for instance and it seemed wider dimensionally. That said, I didn't feel as engrossed by the sound and that dynamically things felt limited and therefore the notes didn't have the decay or flow that is important to me. On my favorite Chopin track, I just didn't get the piano hammer thunder and articulation that I prefer. Soundstage was more in between the speakers, than freedom from them on Everything But the Girl. I know Nagra is paired with YG in the EU and have even heard a full Nagra HD stack on Sonjas locally which shared some similar traits (but an unfamiliar room). My personal opinion is that these amps would pair better with a Wilson Sasha DAW or similar speaker - think more efficiency, paper drivers, etc. Nagra themselves designs with Verity.
Anyways, this is another benefit of working with a good, local dealer. He mused he had wished he brought up the D'agostino too
And to be totally fair, he felt the Nagras sounded better in my system. I'm actually quite interested in a Nagra front end (dac, preamp, external PSU) so that may be in cards for the future.
Let's hope everything calms down by fall and Munich is happening in September.
Guys, some YG Hailey 2 measurements are in a recent Czech review that I found interesting:
www.hifi-voice.com
3 ohms for quite of bit of the bass and lower mids, but without the phase swings of some other brands like Magico and Wilson. I emailed the author and he did think the sensitivity spec was correct around 86-87db.
YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2
Americký výrobce YG Acoustics patří mezi mladé značky , o to více ale ambicí ale má, jak už to tak u mládí bývá. Společnost nesoucí jméno zakladatele Yoava Geva je krom svých mimořádných cenovek známá také tím, že je ochotná v konstrukci sáhnout až po absurdně náročných a nákladných procesech...
3 ohms for quite of bit of the bass and lower mids, but without the phase swings of some other brands like Magico and Wilson. I emailed the author and he did think the sensitivity spec was correct around 86-87db.
I don't have experience with that amp other than on Spendor's recently - and it didn't seem like an ideal match.
The box looks enormously huge in that picture. The long awaited Lamm ML2.2 monoblock must have been packed decently.
What a journey, and what a great service to the community! Thank you very kindly for your most appreciated work, @KeithR !
I learned a lot from your reviews, and from respected forum experts participating in the discussion.
One of the speakers @KeithR has indicated his interest in, Fyne Audio F1-12, was measured by Czech Hi-Fi magazine, and I am wondering if somebody knowledgeable could please comment on the measurement results? What Tannoy’s would you compare the F1-12’s to?
I learned a lot from your reviews, and from respected forum experts participating in the discussion.
One of the speakers @KeithR has indicated his interest in, Fyne Audio F1-12, was measured by Czech Hi-Fi magazine, and I am wondering if somebody knowledgeable could please comment on the measurement results? What Tannoy’s would you compare the F1-12’s to?
Thanks, @abrich. I’m actually visiting west Florida next weekend and will hear the big Fynes. I believe they are competitive, if not the superior to Westminsters.
as far as measurements, @Folsom is your guy. I find measurements interesting but not everything - I use them most for sensitivity/impedance graphs that help amplifier pairings. What’s cool is the Czech mag reviewed both my Haileys and Fynes recently.
as far as measurements, @Folsom is your guy. I find measurements interesting but not everything - I use them most for sensitivity/impedance graphs that help amplifier pairings. What’s cool is the Czech mag reviewed both my Haileys and Fynes recently.
I owned the Cube Audio Nenophar as well and changed it to a Wolf von Langa Son, sold the Nenuphar to a happy new owner. To me, the Nenuphar is the perfect speaker for moderate sized rooms and acoustic music. Unmatched in terms of realism on acoustic instruments.
The Son, overall, is the best speaker i owned so far, and i did own speakers more than double the price tag. Perfect balance, it is pure fun and joy. I simply forget about paying attention to my rigg, to what´s missing and what could be better etc.... I sit down, listen to music and enjoy what´s playing
And yes, the Ribbon and the filed coil driver on the Son does magic, no doubt ! 15k€ for that speaker on today´s market was a catch to me personally as i have listened to a dozen of speakers in 2020, some of em three times the price of the Son´s, and none of them could even convince me, to change my Cube Audio Nenuphar´s.
The visit at Wolf von Langa´s place, changed that, and i bought the Son´s the same day.
Building my new home right now, with the new music room being a 100sqm loft, 5m high ceeling.
Has anybody here heard the Chicago in a similar sized room ? How does the open baffle design work in such big space ?
Anybody directly compared the Son and the Chicago ? What are the differences and does it justify almost 4 times the price ?
Would be nice get to get some insights and opinions.
Hi Yakamozan, fantastic feedback. Interesting that you highlight the Cube's great authenticity of acoustic instruments, because one area my friend found unconvincing on them was Jimmy Page's guitar tone on Zep playback. You'd think if they were great on eg LisZt, they'd be great on LedZep too.
Well, i´d say, listening to LedZep (which btw, i grew up with as a ´74 born, and really love ever since) it is simply not possible to enjoy this kind of music with the Cube´s !
I really love what the Nenuphar does with some music, but LedZep, The Mars Volta and Fat Freddys Drop is a no go. Patricia Barber, Janos Starker and Marco Fornaciari is simply amazing
That´s where the Wolf v. Langa´s step in. They make all of it sound great ! Acoustic not as good as the Nenuphar, no doubt, but overall, especially when you listen to "dirty" or heavy music as well, the Son´s run way ahead.
How flexible is the Son with different amps, and different amp topologies? I know my friend would like to hear the Sons again with something different from the Ares Cerat Genus amps he auditioned them with that day.
At Wolf von Langa´s place, i did listen to them with a mono block set from Air Tight 211 and a primary control front end with a Lyra cartridge, i believe it was a Atlas. Convinced me to buy the Son´s. Hooked it up on my all Aries Cerat rigg, with the Genus back then, and i liked it even more, though the room at WvL space was quite small, my room is 42sqm and tweaked.
In terms of Genus, all i can say is, that back in the days when i bought mine, it was the Genus, the Kondo Overture or the Engström Arne. The later two retailed double the price. I ended up telling my brother that i would have chosen the Genus, even if it would have been 5k€ more expensive then the other two ! And i believe especially the Engström is a great amp too. The Kondo i did not like, and that on a LV OBX RW3 speaker that i owned before changing to the Cube Audio Nenuphar.
WvL also plays the Son´s with a PA class D amp that he sells, and he says, it sounds not as refined as with the high end tube rigg, but still much much fun to listen. I guess there is a wide area of amp, that will drive these speakers, as they are quite amp friendly, so try and buy i´d advise your friend. But if he has the bucks, go for the Genus ! If that is of interest for him, drop me a PM as i am selling mine ( 813 based, surely better then the now build 845 ) since i upgraded to Incito S and Diana Forte 813
In terms of Genus, all i can say is, that back in the days when i bought mine, it was the Genus, the Kondo Overture or the Engström Arne. The later two retailed double the price. I ended up telling my brother that i would have chosen the Genus, even if it would have been 5k€ more expensive then the other two ! And i believe especially the Engström is a great amp too. The Kondo i did not like, and that on a LV OBX RW3 speaker that i owned before changing to the Cube Audio Nenuphar.
WvL also plays the Son´s with a PA class D amp that he sells, and he says, it sounds not as refined as with the high end tube rigg, but still much much fun to listen. I guess there is a wide area of amp, that will drive these speakers, as they are quite amp friendly, so try and buy i´d advise your friend. But if he has the bucks, go for the Genus ! If that is of interest for him, drop me a PM as i am selling mine ( 813 based, surely better then the now build 845 ) since i upgraded to Incito S and Diana Forte 813
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