KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Well, the good news is that the Son is so affordable compared to the competition, that it makes the option of a pricier amp a realistic proposition.
I'm in some ongoing contact with my friend, he's a member here, and I've suggested he check your comments here, he can certainly PM you.
Does the Son have what I call "breath of life"? Ie a real fleet-footed dynamic expression, but no compromise on tonal density and texture.
It's rare to find many spkrs that are affordable that don't trade one for the other.
 

Yakamozan

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Jul 23, 2019
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I´d say, you should give it a listen yourself. To me personally it has pretty much everything i expect from a speaker. Dynamics are simply impressive, clean, powerful, very well articulated and way bigger then you would suggest from a speaker that size. Above all, they have great balance, which to me is the key to listening pleasure.
At the end of the day, it is all a matter of personal taste, isn´t it ? There might be also some, who do not like them i guess.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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The dealer in UK who stocks/demos them is pretty convenient for my friend and me. I actually thought the Genus was quite a bit pricier than it is.
For me, I run 70-80W Class A 211 tubes on 99-101dB/1m efficient spkrs in an 85 sq m/175 cub m space.
25W rising to 40W from the Genus on 95dB/1m Sons in my space could work...
 

djsina2

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May 30, 2019
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Well, i´d say, listening to LedZep (which btw, i grew up with as a ´74 born, and really love ever since) it is simply not possible to enjoy this kind of music with the Cube´s !
I really love what the Nenuphar does with some music, but LedZep, The Mars Volta and Fat Freddys Drop is a no go. Patricia Barber, Janos Starker and Marco Fornaciari is simply amazing :)
That´s where the Wolf v. Langa´s step in. They make all of it sound great ! Acoustic not as good as the Nenuphar, no doubt, but overall, especially when you listen to "dirty" or heavy music as well, the Son´s run way ahead.

I wish I could hear The Mars Volta on the SON.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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The dealer in UK who stocks/demos them is pretty convenient for my friend and me. I actually thought the Genus was quite a bit pricier than it is.
For me, I run 70-80W Class A 211 tubes on 99-101dB/1m efficient spkrs in an 85 sq m/175 cub m space.
25W rising to 40W from the Genus on 95dB/1m Sons in my space could work...
A Diana Forte like Yakamozan has would probably be ideal. It kind of depends on how far you sit from the speakers and how loud you play. I use Genus in my rig and it never runs out of steam but your room is nearly twice the size of mine and I don’t listen super loud normally. At shows we play loud and sometimes with low sensitivity speakers and it is never sounding strained.
 

Yakamozan

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Jul 23, 2019
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I wish I could hear The Mars Volta on the SON.
Well, yes, Mars Volta is a world for itself and the Son´s somehow share my passion for them . Saw TMV live in Paradiso/Amsterdam one day after a Pearl Jam concert in Ziggo Dome back in 2012. Hell of a loud weekend
TMV, one of the greatest band´s that hardly anybody nows, almost as worse as it is with Porcupine Tree.... Together with Tool, my three favorite Band´s of our time. Latest Tool album = out of this world !
 
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spiritofmusic

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Yakamozan, now you're talking! If the Sons are rocking with The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree and Tool, that's fantastic. You need to try Magma, Voivod and Mahogany Frog as well.
The Q is also...Mars Volta AND Mahler? Porcupine Tree AND Prokofiev? Tool AND Tchaikovsky?
 

Yakamozan

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Jul 23, 2019
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Yakamozan, now you're talking! If the Sons are rocking with The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree and Tool, that's fantastic. You need to try Magma, Voivod and Mahogany Frog as well.
The Q is also...Mars Volta AND Mahler? Porcupine Tree AND Prokofiev? Tool AND Tchaikovsky?
That is exactly the reason why i bought the Son‘s and gave away my lovely Nenuphar‘s.
 

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Maybe Blumenhofer Acoustics?, works well with SET and Tube Amps.
The Genuin FS 1 MK 2 can be fill big Rooms with Music.

The coarse and fine dynamic skills of the Blumenhofer are at the highest level.
Even those who are used to very good things in this regard are offered a purity of tone that should impress - especially and especially in the vocal area.
The treble is also very detailed and airy and is more on the explicit than rounded side.
I have hear it with Einstein Tube Amps and Audiomat Tube Amps in my Ears really good. Prize 25k€
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Yakamozan, now you're talking! If the Sons are rocking with The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree and Tool, that's fantastic. You need to try Magma, Voivod and Mahogany Frog as well.
The Q is also...Mars Volta AND Mahler? Porcupine Tree AND Prokofiev? Tool AND Tchaikovsky?
All you need is Rush ;) ...and maybe Yes sprinkled with King Crimson...
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Maybe Blumenhofer Acoustics?, works well with SET and Tube Amps.
The Genuin FS 1 MK 2 can be fill big Rooms with Music.

The coarse and fine dynamic skills of the Blumenhofer are at the highest level.
Even those who are used to very good things in this regard are offered a purity of tone that should impress - especially and especially in the vocal area.
The treble is also very detailed and airy and is more on the explicit than rounded side.
I have hear it with Einstein Tube Amps and Audiomat Tube Amps in my Ears really good. Prize 25k€
Heard them at shows where they failed to impress...Live Act Audio speakers sound more alive to me...
 

Yakamozan

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Jul 23, 2019
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All you need is Rush ;) ...and maybe Yes sprinkled with King Crimson...
Well, you are right. Without King Crimson and Pink Floyd, the three bands i mentioned, would most likely not even exist.
Saw King Crimson live in Frankfurt in 2019. My buddy and i did not claim it to be the best concert we‘ve ever been, but we agreed that we haven‘t seen better yet
 

dsyzling

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Aug 14, 2019
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At Wolf von Langa´s place, i did listen to them with a mono block set from Air Tight 211 and a primary control front end with a Lyra cartridge, i believe it was a Atlas. Convinced me to buy the Son´s. Hooked it up on my all Aries Cerat rigg, with the Genus back then, and i liked it even more, though the room at WvL space was quite small, my room is 42sqm and tweaked.
In terms of Genus, all i can say is, that back in the days when i bought mine, it was the Genus, the Kondo Overture or the Engström Arne. The later two retailed double the price. I ended up telling my brother that i would have chosen the Genus, even if it would have been 5k€ more expensive then the other two ! And i believe especially the Engström is a great amp too. The Kondo i did not like, and that on a LV OBX RW3 speaker that i owned before changing to the Cube Audio Nenuphar.
WvL also plays the Son´s with a PA class D amp that he sells, and he says, it sounds not as refined as with the high end tube rigg, but still much much fun to listen. I guess there is a wide area of amp, that will drive these speakers, as they are quite amp friendly, so try and buy i´d advise your friend. But if he has the bucks, go for the Genus ! If that is of interest for him, drop me a PM as i am selling mine ( 813 based, surely better then the now build 845 ) since i upgraded to Incito S and Diana Forte 813
Hi Yakamozan - I am monitoring this thread but for some reason wasn't notified of updates via email, @spiritofmusic dropped me a message pointing me to your post. Your observations of the Nenuphar match my demo. AV Show Reports (youtube) also reviewed the Nenuphar and after my demo if I read between the lines of that review they're really coming to similar conclusions - that you wouldn't buy these for rock. Their videos on youtube also play similar kinds of acoustic music. I also had trouble with the single driver at times - and this may have been a setup issue. With some tracks the music wouldn't disconnect from the speakers and I was focusing on the single driver, really disconcerting.

I demoed the SON with the Genus and Helene dac, there was a certain softness to some of the transients that I wasn't quite sure about and I'm not sure whether to associate that issue with the dac or the amplifier. However to show the flexibility of the speaker the dealer through on a Nagra Classic Integrated and a Mola Mola Tambaqui and I was still really impressed. That combination had more snap and appeared to dig deeper in the bass. The dealer had suggested they'd tried some other amps which hadn't worked with the SON - really lacking bass. I kind of left not really knowing the direction of which amps I would choose if went for the SONs. I have spoken to Wolf and he gave me quite a few combinations. He also invited me to Germany (obviously covid has prevented that), he was more confident that he could demo them properly. It sounds like you had a fun time while you were there?

I have to say it was one of the very few speakers that I sat down in front of and thought I could comfortably sit here for hours, as well as playing all varieties of music.
 
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Yakamozan

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Jul 23, 2019
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Hi Yakamozan - I am monitoring this thread but for some reason wasn't notified of updates via email, @spiritofmusic dropped me a message pointing me to your post. Your observations of the Nenuphar match my demo. AV Show Reports (youtube) also reviewed the Nenuphar and after my demo if I read between the lines of that review they're really coming to similar conclusions - that you wouldn't buy these for rock. Their videos on youtube also play similar kinds of acoustic music. I also had trouble with the single driver at times - and this may have been a setup issue. With some tracks the music wouldn't disconnect from the speakers and I was focusing on the single driver, really disconcerting.

I demoed the SON with the Genus and Helene dac, there was a certain softness to some of the transients that I wasn't quite sure about and I'm not sure whether to associate that issue with the dac or the amplifier. However to show the flexibility of the speaker the dealer through on a Nagra Classic Integrated and a Mola Mola Tambaqui and I was still really impressed. That combination had more snap and appeared to dig deeper in the bass. The dealer had suggested they'd tried some other amps which hadn't worked with the SON - really lacking bass. I kind of left not really knowing the direction of which amps I would choose if went for the SONs. I have spoken to Wolf and he gave me quite a few combinations. He also invited me to Germany (obviously covid has prevented that), he was more confident that he could demo them properly. It sounds like you had a fun time while you were there?

I have to say it was one of the very few speakers that I sat down in front of and thought I could comfortably sit here for hours, as well as playing all varieties of music.
I figured with the Son, that it makes a huge difference, where you place them. I was lucky enough to bought it straight from Wolf and followed his advises, especially the one with the sorbotan disks he delivers with the Son´s, and recommends their use, even on carpet flooring. Once i take them out, bass articulation and definition in sound reduces.
Still , i can imaging the Nagra´s ( which to me personally is my favorite SS equipment on the market i have to admit, due to the professional approach, the fully thought through designs and the amazing level of service ) being a bit more punchy and precise, especially at the lower end of the frequency band. The Genus might have a better level of realism and scale. Lucky those, who can call either of these systems their own i guess...
It remains, as said, always a matter of personal preference and taste.
I believe both brands are very high up on the scale, Nagra with it´s very old and great history, level of reliability and service. Aries Cerat with a single Gen(i)us approach, who show´s almost the entire market, how to do it better for half the price, even though i have to admit that the price tags for even the smallest of the AC equipment, is quite high...
I always liked supporting people like this, guess that´s why i ended up with the AC rigg, a Bauer Audio turntable and a WvL speaker, as all these dudes have this "genius and passion" element in common...
Listen to a well set up DPS turntable, and you´ll wonder, why there are more expensive turntables on the market, go listen to a WvL Son, and you´ll wonder why anyone would spend more money for a speaker ...
 
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KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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Fyne Audio F1-12

I was keen to hear these speakers after visiting my friend Jim's Tannoy Westminsters a few months ago. My friend, Mike Bovaird at Suncoast Audio, has raved about them for a year as well. My first trip during the pandemic on an airplane would bring me to see my father as well as his relatively new store. And I can also say traveling with 25% of an airplane's capacity was actually pleasant. First class on a transcon was only $150 more, direct.

Mike's store has 3 rooms (L, M, S) and the big Fyne F1-12 was setup in the M room (17' x 25' so actually more large to me). Electronics were Pass XP22/X260.8 and Gryphon Pandora/Essence with a MSB Discrete dac (I own a Premier). The speakers are gorgeous in person - as they are in pictures to most. The woodwork and finish is top notch, the overhung caps a nice touch. While the burled wood isn't my particular style, the speaker is beautiful. I also was expecting a much larger one but the sloped sides and finish draw less attention in person. The "cone" where the driver is located is neat as it's slotted in aluminum to the cabinet and covered with leather (like a SF). So the jet engine look is less in person!

We started on the Pass electronics. The sound was big and present sounding - if not a bit more forward than others I've listened to. It was easy to hear how coherent they are in 5 minutes though and I didn't notice the stilted leading edge like when I had the X350.8 on my YGs. There is something about coaxial drivers that make one relax instantly. However, after more listening the bass was a little round/indistinct, the mids a bit lacking, and the highs perhaps a little soft but edgy. Was this a brighter speaker hiding in Tannoy design language? We switched to Gryphon Essence after an hour and a light bulb went on in the room. The sound blended perfectly. The Essence isn't of the older, warm chocolate Gryphon type and far more neutral than a typical 50 watt Class A. I remarked to Mike that it was a magical combo!

What I heard with the F1-12/Gryphon combo time after time was big, alive, and musical sound. Dynamics were excellent but didn't have any horn fatigue factor. Soundstage was still a bit forward, but not in a tiring fashion (like some horns). Highs were extended, but not overbearing. Bass was clearly tuned for definition than output (Wilson) but still doesn't reach the definition of a sealed box. It hit hard where it needed to though. What was fascinating is while I consider the Tannoy Westminster an "anti-hifi" speaker, I found the Fyne had some more typical hifi attributes in a positive way - think imaging, soundstage, etc. This reminded me of my former Devore Gibbon X vs Orangutan where the former is a more modern sound than the latter. I very much enjoyed the combination of traits. For the resolution fans, I didn't think it was as far off as say the Tannoy Westminster, nor fuzzy like the Gamut RS line. Very open, clear sound. Natalia LaFourcades voice really was present in the room, but without the dripping second harmonic that I often hear with SET amps. We ended with Scheherezade and Trentemoller - 2 very complex pieces in different genres. I'll note that for some reason I found them less congested, more appealing than on sealed box speakers with good flow on the Class A beast. I didn't notice a music genre preference that afternoon.

Did the Fynes quite have the soundstage of a YG that has the uncanny fabric in front of you? Not quite. Was it as refined in the highs or lows as a sealed box speaker? Not that either. But what the Fyne does extremely well is just lets you listen to engaging, dynamic sound in a relaxing fashion but still with some of that hifi goodness.

Where would I put the Fyne F1-12 in my 3 year pecking order of speaker auditions? I'd slot in in the top 3 with YG and Avantgarde. Between the 3, it really depends on your ultimate priorities. What I've learned after numerous sessions is that there is no speaker that excels at *everything*. You make your decision based on your top 3 or 4 attributes and go in that direction.
 

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