KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[KeithR]

Hey guys, thought I would give some amp updates on the big Fynes. I'd like to caveat this by saying I only know how they sound on my speaker, and I feel amp/speaker synergy is very real. So if you're favorite amp didn't happen to work on my speaker it doesn't mean much- I do feel that for a higher efficiency speakers there are some parallels. As a reminder, I've had Pass, DartZeel, Nagra SS already on them and posted my thoughts.

BAT VK-255SE

I picked up a used copy of this amp as they trade for very reasonable prices. The BAT has great tone - very unusual for SS. It also cast a big soundstage and had good bass. The build quality is probably unmatched, certainly compared with Pass and other amps in the $10k MSRP price range. If it wasn't in a steel chassis, would sell for double and I like that middle class approach. We've gone way overboard on "luxury" for luxury, not sonic sake. However, I felt the BAT was a bit flat compared to the better (read: expensive) SS amps and the soundstage was back of the hall. It reminded me somewhat of Ayre back in the day but warmer. I think transparency was also less than others and I've pretty much decided that MOSFET amps just aren't my thing (well except Nagra which doesn't sound like one). I would take a BAT over Pass XA25 or X.8 series, which is probably controversial in some camps. I'd be interested how it compares with Luxman m900 - there is someone selling a VK-655SE who feels its better.

Vitus SIA-25

I came in hoping this would be the perfect match - and anticipated ordering the big brother SIA-30 at some point if so. Class A, 25 watts with a huge power supply. The unit itself is gorgeous, build quality exceptional and really feels like a sleek brick is in your room. The remote was easy to use, unlike 90% of them in this hobby and I could easily dial in sound at the right volume as it uses a stepped volume approach. Sonically, the Vitus just wasn't a good match with my speaker. The amp is all about organic tone and flow at the expense of some dynamics and soundstage. I felt the Vitus imaged spectacular on this system, only perhaps bested by the Nagra. However, it just was overly smooth and ripe on the Fynes. Lacked toe tapping, snap factor and sounded a bit closed in on top. I read a lot about pairing Vitus with Magicos and Raidhos, so chalk it up to a synergy thing. I can see how it would be great on those types of speakers which are on the cooler side of the spectrum with different tweeters.

 

[KeithR]

Jadis JA-30mkii

As mentioned previously, this was a bucket list item. When the amps arrived my first task was to get some decent tubes in them. We tube rolled KT90, KT88, and several EL34s before settling on Siemens NOS EL34, Tubestore 7205s (a pleasant surprise), and RCA clear dome 12AT7s. The Jadis are French beauty, and you find yourself gazing at the chassis' themselves often. The power cord at the front of the amp however is bad design. When I bought them, I expected a pretty old school tube sound with not the tightest bass. They actually have surprised me a bit and could be more objective than the Vitus I demo'd. They still are lush, but have more top end and bass than expected. The bass is taut, no doubt due to their famed transformers, but isn't the deepest and lacks slam factor. It's meant to boogie, not for the Tron soundtrack. The amp is midrange centric in that manner, and as a forum member said long ago, is like a ray of light is on the sound - but not the old school Cary/CJ type overly tubey sound. Jazz really sounds good on these amps. They also feature a more upfront, but holographic soundstage. It feels like you are more in the jazz club than other tube amps. I can certainly see SET fans love them. They definitely have a "sound" and that's their charm. After living with the EL34s for a month, I believe I'd prefer KT150s in these amps - requires a resistor adjustment inside, but the amps have transformers designed for them.

 

[KeithR]

In tube land, current ARC is probably where I stand on the sonic spectrum - think 75SE, Ref 160m, etc.

 

[morricab]

Hey guys, thought I would give some amp updates on the big Fynes. I'd like to caveat this by saying I only know how they sound on my speaker, and I feel amp/speaker synergy is very real. So if you're favorite amp didn't happen to work on my speaker it doesn't mean much- I do feel that for a higher efficiency speakers there are some parallels. As a reminder, I've had Pass, DartZeel, Nagra SS already on them and posted my thoughts.

BAT VK-255SE

I picked up a used copy of this amp as they trade for very reasonable prices. The BAT has great tone - very unusual for SS. It also cast a big soundstage and had good bass. The build quality is probably unmatched, certainly compared with Pass and other amps in the $10k MSRP price range. If it wasn't in a steel chassis, would sell for double and I like that middle class approach. We've gone way overboard on "luxury" for luxury, not sonic sake. However, I felt the BAT was a bit flat compared to the better (read: expensive) SS amps and the soundstage was back of the hall. It reminded me somewhat of Ayre back in the day but warmer. I think transparency was also less than others and I've pretty much decided that MOSFET amps just aren't my thing (well except Nagra which doesn't sound like one). I would take a BAT over Pass XA25 or X.8 series, which is probably controversial in some camps. I'd be interested how it compares with Luxman m900 - there is someone selling a VK-655SE who feels its better.

Vitus SIA-25

I came in hoping this would be the perfect match - and anticipated ordering the big brother SIA-30 at some point if so. Class A, 25 watts with a huge power supply. The unit itself is gorgeous, build quality exceptional and really feels like a sleek brick is in your room. The remote was easy to use, unlike 90% of them in this hobby and I could easily dial in sound at the right volume as it uses a stepped volume approach. Sonically, the Vitus just wasn't a good match with my speaker. The amp is all about organic tone and flow at the expense of some dynamics and soundstage. I felt the Vitus imaged spectacular on this system, only perhaps bested by the Nagra. However, it just was overly smooth and ripe on the Fynes. Lacked toe tapping, snap factor and sounded a bit closed in on top. I read a lot about pairing Vitus with Magicos and Raidhos, so chalk it up to a synergy thing. I can see how it would be great on those types of speakers which are on the cooler side of the spectrum with different tweeters.

I had the older version the VK200. It was a bit dark and warm but worked well on Acoustats so a friend of mine bought it for his. You should try the new AriesCerat Aperio, which is a triode/FET single stage design. It was totally fantastic in Munich…your search will be over…

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Swiss Importer/distributor for Aries Cerat Ltd.

 

[KeithR]

WestminsterLabs REI

These are the current forum darlings, as the floating bias class A design has been up for some debate. Some of the reviews have claimed that they really sound more 300b in the mids, but with SS bass. As the distributor is local, I arranged for a demo in August but was cut short and offered a week long demo over the holidays. As I've mentioned extensively on the thread, I really would prefer a SS long term option. The design has some cool aspects including the lit up logos on the front and the extensive use of carbon fiber. I think the brand is being positioned as a less expensive alternative to the considerably more expensive Swiss counterparts. The Westies don't really sound like Vitus Class A at all - so if folks want to debate the Class A nature, I feel its not that important. What the REIs do is provide a smooth, tonally rich but with snappy, fast sound (the latter part more of a Class A/B thing). The interesting thing is they don't sacrifice speed for tonal decay. For SS, they do have the 3Dness that not all designs get. The bass on these puppies is really impressive - seriously big for their size. They have a really "big" sound as well that was exhibited from the first time I turned them on. On some tracks, you just find the speakers to disappear. As such, it's a great amp for classical. To me, while they don't have 300B mids (which I'm not a big fan of) or sound SET like with that spooky kind of midrange, (and I just heard $80k Absolare 845s for contrast elsewhere) they still sound ~SS to these ears and that's not a bad thing. In some respects they remind me of the Berning sound albeit from the SS side but tonally richer. Really there is not much to fault about the REIs - they have a hair less resolution than the Swiss, Nagra was a bit tonally richer/3D. I think sonically they are between the Vitus sound and say Boulder. But while SS, I think tube fans will gravitate to them. I know a lot of tube fans own CH now, but find that brand drier than the WestminsterLabs although only at shows/dealers and not in my own home. The REIs are great amps.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

300B mids is a stupid expression
the 300Bs can be as lean as a solid state amp.....it all depends on the design and the powersupplies

 

[bonzo75]

300B mids is a stupid expression
the 300Bs can be as lean as a solid state amp.....it all depends on the design and the powersupplies

people get that if they run 300b outside its comfort zone by having higher power output or under driving the speaker, in which case 300b only gets some mids and bloated bass. Best run under 10 watts

 

[Gjo]

Bill Dion, who owns Fyne 704 loudspeakers, uses a Circle Labs A200 solid state amplifier that he loves. Bill has a lot of experience with tube and solid state components, having built his own tube preamplifier based on a TRL The Dude.

Bill's a very careful listener.

This thread might be a worth your attention...

Audiogon Discussion Forum

This review is a reflection of my desire to help those looking for purity of sound in the convenient package of an integrated amplifier. In other words,...

forum.audiogon.com

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

if I´m blasting away at live levels I might use a watt or max two

 

[Steve williams]

WestminsterLabs REI

These are the current forum darlings, as the floating bias class A design has been up for some debate. Some of the reviews have claimed that they really sound more 300b in the mids, but with SS bass. As the distributor is local, I arranged for a demo in August but was cut short and offered a week long demo over the holidays. As I've mentioned extensively on the thread, I really would prefer a SS long term option. The design has some cool aspects including the lit up logos on the front and the extensive use of carbon fiber. I think the brand is being positioned as a less expensive alternative to the considerably more expensive Swiss counterparts. The Westies don't really sound like Vitus Class A at all - so if folks want to debate the Class A nature, I feel its not that important. What the REIs do is provide a smooth, tonally rich but with snappy, fast sound (the latter part more of a Class A/B thing). The interesting thing is they don't sacrifice speed for tonal decay. For SS, they do have the 3Dness that not all designs get. The bass on these puppies is really impressive - seriously big for their size. They have a really "big" sound as well that was exhibited from the first time I turned them on. On some tracks, you just find the speakers to disappear. As such, it's a great amp for classical. To me, while they don't have 300B mids (which I'm not a big fan of) or sound SET like with that spooky kind of midrange, (and I just heard $80k Absolare 845s for contrast elsewhere) they still sound ~SS to these ears and that's not a bad thing. In some respects they remind me of the Berning sound albeit from the SS side but tonally richer. Really there is not much to fault about the REIs - they have a hair less resolution than the Swiss, Nagra was a bit tonally richer/3D. I think sonically they are between the Vitus sound and say Boulder. But while SS, I think tube fans will gravitate to them. I know a lot of tube fans own CH now, but find that brand drier than the WestminsterLabs although only at shows/dealers and not in my own home. The REIs are great amps.

I have heard them now in my house on 3 different occasions the last of which was the bridged version which left me speechless. For the price IMO there is no equal and if people with uber expensive amps want to compare their amp to the Rei I promise you will be in for a surprise or as some would say, "a rude awakening"

 

[PeterA]

I have heard them now in my house on 3 different occasions the last of which was the bridged version which left me speechless. For the price IMO there is no equal and if people with uber expensive amps want to compare their amp to the Rei I promise you will be in for a surprise or as some would say, "a rude awakening"

It would be interesting to hear how they compare to the CH monos. Steve, did you try them with your Lamm preamp or just with their matching preamp?

 

[Steve williams]

I used the Westminster Quest however the tube input from my Horizon gave the music a lush warm sound

 

[gleeds]

Hi Peter, I expect to be able to compare the Westminster amplifiers to CH Precision sometime in Q1 next year at a dealers shop using Magico M3 or M6 speakers and I'll ask him to post his findings. Our experience and customer projects thus far have been Wilson Audio, Von Schweikert Ultra 9, Tidal Audio Contriva G2, Vienna Acoustic Klimit series, "The Music", Trenner and Friedl, Keith's Fyne F12s, GTT Audio planars and most recently with Raidho TD 3.2s. Of course, Fred Ainsley pairs them with his Tobian horns in New York with the Quest pre-amplifier and Horizon Dac.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter, I expect to be able to compare the Westminster amplifiers to CH Precision sometime in Q1 next year at a dealers shop. I expect there to be some differences but it will be interesting. Most likely though the only speakers available for that comparison will be the Magico M3 or M6. Our customers and experience thus far have been Wilson, several Tidal Contriva G2 owners, Vienna Acoustic Magic, Trenner and Friedl, GTT Audio planars and most recently with beautiful Raidho TD 3.2s. Of course, Fred Ainsley pairs them with his Tobian horns in New York with the Quest pre-amplifier and Horizon Dac which sounds terrific. Damon and I just installed a bridged pair of Westminster Rei for testing in Von Schweikert's factory listening room powering their mighty Ultra 7s which we are quite excited about.

Hello Gary, I have heard the M3 and M Pro, but not the M6. These speakers are sufficiently transparent, so I suspect you will hear differences between those amplifiers. Sounds like a fun comparison.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Keith has allowed me to accompany him on this wide-ranging amplifier survey. My favorite solid-state amp was the Westminsters. I think they present an interesting contrast to the LTAs, which, despite a sonic leanness, often are the winners for me because of their tube liquidity and quasi-OTL transparency. I think I place the LTAs and the Westminsters on the same indifference curve. But if I had to pick one, I would choose the Westminsters.

In Keith’s system the particular Vitus he auditioned was weirdly sluggish-sounding. I have no theory about this.

I liked the Jadis on first listen, but I was hearing a bit of gauziness, something clouding slightly the transparency. Keith’s successful tube swapping taught me that different tubes cannot only emphasize or de-emphasize a portion of the frequency spectrum, but can achieve a wholesale improvement in transparency.

On my second visit with the Jadis, after the tube swap, I was in love. I had a clear and unambiguous winner in Keith’s system for my preferences and ears. The Jadis just works for me in every way I care about. I can’t prove it, so please don’t ask me to, but, impressionistically, I think the Jadis is very similar sounding to VTL, but just on the slightly warmer side of VTL.

Applying Keith’s preferences I think the Westminsters are perfect for him. It makes sense to each of us that I like the Jadis more than Keith does.

 

[morricab]

Keith has allowed me to accompany him on this wide-ranging amplifier survey. My favorite solid-state amp was the Westminsters. I think they present an interesting contrast to the LTAs, which, despite a sonic leanness, often are the winners for me because of their tube liquidity and quasi-OTL transparency. I think I place the LTAs and the Westminsters on the same indifference curve. But if I had to pick one, I would choose the Westminsters.

In Keith’s system the particular Vitus he auditioned was weirdly sluggish-sounding.

I liked the Jadis on first listen, but I was hearing a bit of gauziness, something clouding slightly the transparency. Keith’s successful tube swapping taught me that different tubes cannot only emphasize or de-emphasize a portion of the frequency spectrum, but can achieve a wholesale improvement in transparency.

On my second visit with the Jadis, after the tube swap, I was in love. I had a clear and unambiguous winner in Keith’s system for my preferences and ears. The Jadis just works for me in every way I care about. I can’t prove it, so please don’t ask me to, but, impressionistically, I think the Jadis is very similar sounding to VTL, but just on the slightly warmer side of VTL.

Applying Keith’s preferences I think the Westminsters are perfect for him. It makes sense to each of us that I like the Jadis more than Keith does.

Which Jadis model Ron? The only Jadis model I have heard that was something a bit special to me was the old Defy 7 mkiii that had been special wired by Siltech. One of their lesser amps supposedly at that time but really nice and reasonably close in sound to a KR VA350i.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Which Jadis model Ron?

Keith reported above that he auditioned the JA30 Mk. II.

 

[RaChiK]

Since you are on a journey to test amplifiers with Fyne F1-12, you should try Octave amps. I am using octave RE-320 with my F1-12 and stunned by the amp for its price. I got a good synergy here and am very happy with its linear performance. However, my eventual plan will be to get Aries Cerat Ianus essentias. Till then octave is not going anywhere.

 

[morricab]

Since you are on a journey to test amplifiers with Fyne F1-12, you should try Octave amps. I am using octave RE-320 with my F1-12 and stunned by the amp for its price. I got a good synergy here and am very happy with its linear performance. However, my eventual plan will be to get Aries Cerat Ianus essentias. Till then octave is not going anywhere.

The Aperio integrated would work great as well…same tech as Essentias.