KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[NorthStar]

No. Not in my definition. Same recording will flow on one system and not another. Heard this loads of times.

Ok, so flow in the discussion of this thread is system dependent?
If it is then some systems have to be pretty bad to not let flow the music harmoniously.
...Like a cassette deck from the seventies in need of a new motor and capstans and belts.

Are there any WBF members here who doesn't have a system with the music flowing naturally (uninterrupted continuity), perhaps from an unadjusted cartridge, the wrong speed, a couple burned out tubes, a blown up tweeter, a damaged speaker surround, ...etc., etc., etc.
Then the music won't be flowing properly. It will sound broken, discontinued, wavy.

Or it could also be a bad cold affecting our hearing?
Or the refrigerator noise, from the adjacent kitchen room?

 

[bonzo75]

Ok, so flow in the discussion of this thread is system dependent?
If it is then some systems have to be pretty bad to not let flow the music.
...Like a cassette deck from the seventies in need of new motor and capstans and belts.

Are there any WBF members here who doesn't have a system with the music flowing naturally (uninterrupted continuity), perhaps from an unadjusted cartridge, the wrong speed, a couple burned out tubes, a blown up tweeter, a damaged speaker surround, ...etc., etc., etc.
Then the music won't be flowing properly. It will sound broken, discontinued, wavy.

Hi no, almost all have great systems and music flows like water from a tap. Let's move on now to other topics

 

[NorthStar]

...Keith's "dream speaker".
It could also be my dream speaker ...

To Horn or not, that is the question.

 

[microstrip]

Hi no, almost all have great systems and music flows like water from a tap. Let's move on now to other topics

Why moving so fast? We still have not debated the application of Bernoulli's principle to music flow ...

 

[morricab]

There are a number of horn systems that, too me, don't lend themselves to long terms listening. If I had to guess, I'd say that my body couldn't relax when listening because it was always in defense-mode. It was always prepared to brace itself for an aggressive, harsh, distorted, resonant or peaky sound to come from the system. This is pretty much the exact opposite of being drawn into the music and letting it wash over you.

But you didn’t have that response with the Odeons...or did you?

 

[microstrip]

Sonus Faber is what comes to mind in that direction.

Although there is variance enough in the Sonus Faber range to help a precise definition, it is curious that the Aida's were capable of great continuousness.

 

[bonzo75]

Why moving so fast? We still have not debated the application of Bernoulli's principle to music flow ...

Decrease in pressure (increase in sensitivity in speakers) increases speed of fluidity?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Ok, so flow in the discussion of this thread is system dependent?
If it is then some systems have to be pretty bad to not let flow the music harmoniously.
...Like a cassette deck from the seventies in need of a new motor and capstans and belts.

Are there any WBF members here who doesn't have a system with the music flowing naturally (uninterrupted continuity), perhaps from an unadjusted cartridge, the wrong speed, a couple burned out tubes, a blown up tweeter, a damaged speaker surround, ...etc., etc., etc.
Then the music won't be flowing properly. It will sound broken, discontinued, wavy.

Or it could also be a bad cold affecting our hearing?
Or the refrigerator noise, from the adjacent kitchen room?

No sorry you have wrong end of stick. Suggest to read Tao’s great posts describing the meaning of “flow” as being used here.

 

[Exlibris]

But you didn’t have that response with the Odeons...or did you?

You're right, I didn't. I was drawn into the music in a profound way. I actually caught myself physically leaning in toward the speaker plane.
I played a lot of songs on that system over two demos and I can't say I ever remember a moment when I tensed up in preparation for what I thought would be objectionable sound.

I can't say, however, that that system in that room enveloped me, nor did the music wash over me. The soundfield did reach out into the room beyond the speaker plane by a meter or two and way back behind the plane as well. The music did come to me; it did project out into the room. The music wasn't, however, simply just 'here, there, and everywhere.' It was clearly 'over there'; I wasn't 'in' the soundfield. I think that effect of total immersion is contingent on a lot of things being right but who knows, maybe there are huge horns speakers out there that will do it in any room with any associated equipment.

 

[morricab]

You're right, I didn't. I was drawn into the music in a profound way. I actually caught myself physically leaning in toward the speaker plane.
I played a lot of songs on that system over two demos and I can't say I ever remember a moment when I tensed up in preparation for what I thought would be objectionable sound.

I can't say, however, that that system in that room enveloped me, nor did the music wash over me. The soundfield did reach out into the room beyond the speaker plane by a meter or two and way back behind the plane as well. The music did come to me; it did project out into the room. The music wasn't, however, simply just 'here, there, and everywhere.' It was clearly 'over there'; I wasn't 'in' the soundfield. I think that effect of total immersion is contingent on a lot of things being right but who knows, maybe there are huge horns speakers out there that will do it in any room with any associated equipment.

Did you decide if you would get a pair or are you checking other options?

 

[NorthStar]

No sorry you have wrong end of stick. Suggest to read Tao’s great posts describing the meaning of “flow” as being used here.

I'm excellent with Tao's description.
? https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/keithrs-dream-speaker-search.27069/page-80#post-593112

Is "system's synergistic harmonization" a valid inclusion of "flow"?

 

[Exlibris]

Did you decide if you would get a pair or are you checking other options?

I've decided to get a pair. I think I've exhausted my options for horns. The Universums won't fit in my condo and I've read to many mixed reviews of the Anima to want to spend the money flying off to demo them.

 

[NorthStar]

Why moving so fast? We still have not debated the application of Bernoulli's principle to music flow ...

I thought Ked was the thread's main director.

 

[bonzo75]

I thought Ked was the thread's main director.

No but with random script like yours you can pass off for QT

 

[morricab]

I've decided to get a pair. I think I've exhausted my options for horns. The Universums won't fit in my condo and I've read to many mixed reviews of the Anima to want to spend the money flying off to demo them.

28/3? Or 33?

 

[NorthStar]

No but with random script like yours you can pass off for QT

What I like about you Ked is you smell ... perfume.

 

[Folsom]

I think you are on to something with regard to the expression of microdynamics contributing to the sense of flow. I think that it also has to be distinguished between the performance itself having flow and the reproduction having flow. I have been to many live concerts where there was not good flow because there was a lack of intuitive interaction between the musicians that made the music sound "choppy" and lack the ryhthmic smoothness. When a really good group or ensemble get it together live then there is distinct flow and this translates to an emotional involvement.

For reprocution I think a lot of the little timing cues and expectations of the brain are contained in the microdynamics of the recording/playback chain. If the recording sucks and masks this then the recording will not give you flow regardless of the rig its played on. The same will be true when a superior recording is played back on gear that is not accurately capturing the tiny shifts in intensity and tone as the musicians progress from note to note and interact and interplay with one another. If this is perceived in time with the brain's expectation then I think flow will result...if something masks or interrupts this (say strange resonances or distortions) then timing and therefore flow are interrupted and the sound can lose interest.

I agree also that flow has nothing inherently to do with euphony nor does it inhibit large dynamic shifts other than to make them seem more as part of the whole rather than large volcanic outbursts.

If one assumes that a recording is the best possible performance that the particular artist can produce then a system with flow should sound closer to what one would hear with that performer at his/her best in a live setting. Now, this is really only potentially true with acoustic music and/or live recordings but these are what should be used to judge things in the first place, no?

Let’s just shorten that to; “If volume tracking is poor, the lead ins and outs disappear. The result is sounds can pop out of no where and give a disconjointed presentation, almost like the music is turning on and off.”

Caveats are some gear attempts to poorly correct this, making unnatural attack/decay, hard edged unnaturalness, etc. Those tweaks on sound can happen through any piece of gear.

 

[Folsom]

this sums it up nicely, thank you.

Well, that’s a good start. I love that I think about the music, and judge it, in a way where I’m not thinking about the stereo (on my system). But that includes some thoughts about mastering etc. The point being I’m not evaluating the stereo, which is what I do on nearly all systems.

But that type of experience isn’t 100% summation of sound. You can still change things in a stereo for better/worse, that you will enjoy more/less, despite not judging the stereo but just the music. It’s as simple as, well, how much you desire to listen.

Anyways I suspect for some people they never really listen to the stereo, only the music, and for that person audiophile gear means little. We’re a special, touchy, breed that can’t help but hear most stereos.

 

[jeff1225]

The longest music sessions I've ever had is with my current system, it is very relaxed and natural sounding. I believe there are three reasons for this:

1. Lamm
2. SME 3012r
3. The wide dispersion of the wave guide and vintage JBL 15" in my PBN's

Flow/naturalness is #1 for me.

 

[Barry2013]

I'm still puzzled by what exactly "flow" is supposed to mean (and no, I'm not trolling).

Ron your post reminded me of a discussion I had about a year ago with one of the UK Vitus staff when we discussed my Vitus SIA 025 amplifier. He referred to the liquid sound of the amp which struck me as a very good descrition of the amps sound. "Flow" I imagine is a variant of that character of sound.