No doubt you are right. It looked and sounded terrific and he was a very affable guy.
King Cello is a pretty darn good phono stage
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Cool
Nice Mike...maybe you could push Herve a little more
.
It is a really nice unit, this Dart.
Cheers!
Alan
Nice Mike...maybe you could push Herve a little more
.It is a really nice unit, this Dart.
Cheers!
Alan
OK-OK-OK- I'm here
Where to start.
Thanks Mike, Myles, Flez et al!
Yes the "standard" K/C has both phono and tape EQ - with switchable NAB and IEC EQ for tape. Yes it was derived from the original P100 module in the Audio Suite - as was the P603 tape module in said suite. In fact, it was when I hooked up one of the P100 modules discovered in the "Cello Mines"; brought it down for some CT Audio Society Members to try on their Phono rigs (I don't have phono) and got VERY positive (sonic) feedback; that I decided to do more research. Found then that the P603 module was the same basic circuit but with different (tape) EQ. Reworked the phono network on the board for tape - listened to it - was amazed and decided to try and "bring it back" but with both switchable tape and phono equalization choices.
For both phono and tape, the input impedance is 47K in parallel with 100pf (Cello's MM Values). I can put in whatever R/C a customer wants for phono but it would be soldered in and not easily changeable. Customers have asked for loading switches but I'm somewhat averse to switches at very low levels. What I did do for the unit Rich now has was to put in two sets of paralleled inputs, so the original owner could mount whatever R/C combination he desired on a second (set) of RCA plugs and plug them in next to the cable plugs coming from the phono rig. That seemed to work fine.
As Rich indicated, gain is switchable "about" 40/50/60 dB (maybe a few db higher). Can't go above 60 as the pre starts to go unstable and the noise/hum "floor" intrudes. I believe that tapesters are pretty much using the 50db position, and the few folks I knew that were regularly using it for phono were using high output MC's and the 50db position. OF COURSE there is also my friend Walter whose uses a step-up transformer after his beloved SPU (He LOVES his step-up transformers).
Let me give you a preview - I'm also experimenting with the K/C as a Record Amplifier - for dubbing purposes only. Input from the PB head of deck A. Output replaces the record amp in deck B - wired in just before the record head - so I can use Deck B's existing bias network. Simplifies the electronics "chain" enormously - and with only one capacitor! Initial results appear promising. More later!
Charles
Oh Yeah, I did have a different preamp at the NY show in Robin's room. It was my DIY homage to the Mark Levinson LNP-2; love at first sight - when was that - 1972? Little taller than the original (couldn't find the stock meters). We used it for Robin's mono cart and tape repro. And thanks Whart - hope to see you at next year's show - GREAT time!
Where to start.
Thanks Mike, Myles, Flez et al!
Yes the "standard" K/C has both phono and tape EQ - with switchable NAB and IEC EQ for tape. Yes it was derived from the original P100 module in the Audio Suite - as was the P603 tape module in said suite. In fact, it was when I hooked up one of the P100 modules discovered in the "Cello Mines"; brought it down for some CT Audio Society Members to try on their Phono rigs (I don't have phono) and got VERY positive (sonic) feedback; that I decided to do more research. Found then that the P603 module was the same basic circuit but with different (tape) EQ. Reworked the phono network on the board for tape - listened to it - was amazed and decided to try and "bring it back" but with both switchable tape and phono equalization choices.
For both phono and tape, the input impedance is 47K in parallel with 100pf (Cello's MM Values). I can put in whatever R/C a customer wants for phono but it would be soldered in and not easily changeable. Customers have asked for loading switches but I'm somewhat averse to switches at very low levels. What I did do for the unit Rich now has was to put in two sets of paralleled inputs, so the original owner could mount whatever R/C combination he desired on a second (set) of RCA plugs and plug them in next to the cable plugs coming from the phono rig. That seemed to work fine.
As Rich indicated, gain is switchable "about" 40/50/60 dB (maybe a few db higher). Can't go above 60 as the pre starts to go unstable and the noise/hum "floor" intrudes. I believe that tapesters are pretty much using the 50db position, and the few folks I knew that were regularly using it for phono were using high output MC's and the 50db position. OF COURSE there is also my friend Walter whose uses a step-up transformer after his beloved SPU (He LOVES his step-up transformers).
Let me give you a preview - I'm also experimenting with the K/C as a Record Amplifier - for dubbing purposes only. Input from the PB head of deck A. Output replaces the record amp in deck B - wired in just before the record head - so I can use Deck B's existing bias network. Simplifies the electronics "chain" enormously - and with only one capacitor! Initial results appear promising. More later!
Charles
Oh Yeah, I did have a different preamp at the NY show in Robin's room. It was my DIY homage to the Mark Levinson LNP-2; love at first sight - when was that - 1972? Little taller than the original (couldn't find the stock meters). We used it for Robin's mono cart and tape repro. And thanks Whart - hope to see you at next year's show - GREAT time!
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I now have about three weeks with the Luxman PD555/Scheu Tacco/Blue Angel Mantis setup hooked to the K/C to try the phono stage, the Mantis has a very low output so right up-front dynamics were constrained and some hum was present, so I decided to install a SUT in the chain.
Glorious sound!
Is your phono stage back Mike? Impressions?
Glorious sound!
Is your phono stage back Mike? Impressions?
the dart pre has been back a month and i love it, love it!! i now have battery power all the time. better.
since i do not yet have my MM7's (they are approx a month away) and have loaner speakers i'm reluctant to do any critical listening.....so i've not compared the King-Cello in phono to the darTZeel. when you notice my speakers have arrived remind me and i'll do the comparison.
interesting question. Dave had told me he would be starting work on them in late May, and i have not yet heard back from him about it. with my new speakers and amps immenent, and paying for both the speakers and the big dart amps facing me, i'm ok with the delay. i figured he would tell me when he was ready to do so and i have no need to hurry him along. i do look forward to getting them in house, but have enough on my plate currently.
on a somewhat related note; Bruce Brown assisted me (i watched him do it
) last week in removing the three motors from my 1/2" Studer A-820 and i sent them off to Athan to be rebuilt. i hope to have them back in a couple of weeks. they were a bit noisy on ff and rewind (dead quiet during play) and since i'm kinda on hold waiting for the MM7's i figured it was a good time to do it. i'm hopeing that some of the 1/2" versions of Tape Project Series 3 will soon be issued.
Latest King/Cello being tested on Sound Technology 1510A
Latest build of King/Cello with the full Monty Cello casework. The video is a demonstration of testing the K/C preamp on a ST 1510A for noise and frequency response(one of just a few things the ST can do). The MRL test tape is custom made for the ST device.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ8GmZ8tKIk&list=UU4gW24yyVGFf0Z8U4v9NbbQ&index=1&feature=plcp
Rich
Latest build of King/Cello with the full Monty Cello casework. The video is a demonstration of testing the K/C preamp on a ST 1510A for noise and frequency response(one of just a few things the ST can do). The MRL test tape is custom made for the ST device.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ8GmZ8tKIk&list=UU4gW24yyVGFf0Z8U4v9NbbQ&index=1&feature=plcp
Rich
Guys, sorry for my ignorance...
Is this King/Cello brand still alive or the headamps you're speaking about just go around on the second hand market? I couldn't find a company website...
Is this King/Cello brand still alive or the headamps you're speaking about just go around on the second hand market? I couldn't find a company website...
Doc, i think Cello is long gone, but Charlie King has parts that he puts together in various preamps, used for tape machines, phono, etc. I heard one at the recent NY Waldorf show and it was great. Others, including Charlie, can chime in on the history and details.
Actually Cello is still around and is owned by Matthew James. Happen to know it because am getting the Encore amplifiers for review sometime this month along with the Cello Strings IC and speaker cables.
http://www.matthew-james.net/Products/Encore_Amplifier/
News to me... Has it been in continuous business or was it revived? Wasn't M. James the original partner with ML?Actually Cello is still around and is owned by Matthew James. Happen to know it because am getting the Encore amplifiers for review sometime this month along with the Cello Strings IC and speaker cables.
http://www.matthew-james.net/Products/Encore_Amplifier/
I have fond memories of that Palette equalizer and his version of the old AR LST.
Well I think they've been around for a little while based on this info.
http://www.matthew-james.net/Reviews/The_Cello_Rhapsody/
Hopefully when Jim McCullough drops it by, will fill in the missing pieces (Jim's roots go deep in the industry BTW including a stint at Levinson and others).
Isn't Viola also an offshoot of Cello?
BTW, Charlie King here is a huge Cello devotee!!!
Ok guys, so now I follow this brand-gate.
I remember about the company Cello (I mean, I remember to have read about them...), which was established by Mark Levinson, isn't it? I also new that a new Cello company was connected to Matthew James.
I'm not sure instead that Viola is related directly to Cello. I know that behind Viola there was Tom Colangelo, who, if I'm not wrong, was engineer at Mark Levinson. Viola is one of the most desired solid state design in Italy, a kind of legend.
Instead, with regards to King/Cello, I though it was another completely unrelated company.
I remember about the company Cello (I mean, I remember to have read about them...), which was established by Mark Levinson, isn't it? I also new that a new Cello company was connected to Matthew James.
I'm not sure instead that Viola is related directly to Cello. I know that behind Viola there was Tom Colangelo, who, if I'm not wrong, was engineer at Mark Levinson. Viola is one of the most desired solid state design in Italy, a kind of legend.
Instead, with regards to King/Cello, I though it was another completely unrelated company.
Ok guys, so now I follow this brand-gate.
I remember about the company Cello (I mean, I remember to have read about them...), which was established by Mark Levinson, isn't it? I also new that a new Cello company was connected to Matthew James.
I'm not sure instead that Viola is related directly to Cello. I know that behind Viola there was Tom Colangelo, who, if I'm not wrong, was engineer at Mark Levinson. Viola is one of the most desired solid state design in Italy, a kind of legend.
Instead, with regards to King/Cello, I though it was another completely unrelated company.
As I understand it Levinson founded Cello which went under. Along the way, Jim McCullough picked up where Mark left off. Tom Colangelo and Paul Jayson who had worked with Mark at Cello left and founded Viola. So they're all related to some extent
http://www.violalabs.com/aboutus.html
Ah ok
So Charles King entered Cello in a second moment?
i own one of the King-Cello's and here is my understanding of things relating to Cello and Charles King;
Charles has nothing to do with the company 'Cello' or any assets of 'Cello'; he simply is using the Colangelo designed circuit as the basis for his Tape/Phono pre. Charles added a separate power supply and likely other things to the Cello circuit.
i really like mine.
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