Klaudio’s Pivoted Linear Tangential Tonearm

[Klaudio/Peter]

I think I have my system tuned well enough I am hearing a loss of "musicality" as the arm tracks from outer to inner. I hear a change. Sort of a loss of dynamic excitement. I am looking. Budget is going to be the biggest issue for me. I saw one linear tracker at a show and JR warned me to analyze the attachment of the arm to the tube. He said it had to have 0 play. An arm is supposedly suppose to be rigid. Otherwise it will chatter. The arm I saw wobbled all over.
The Klaudio looks interesting. I wonder what the tolerances between all the connection points are as well as the rigidity of the multiple "shafts" and associated bearing points. Is there an issue with binding over time. I have a lot of dust in my house. I live in a city and enjoy open windows. My floors and equipment are covered in a week. And I have a puffy poodle. Hes a swiffer of sorts. Brings it in and blows it about.

Klaudio tonearm is processed with highest level of precision, and the connection parts are very sophisticated. While the tonearm is running, it tracks a perfect linear line without any skating, vibration, woveling and resonance. The dust problem is the same as that of a normal pivot arm.
A jig tool is provided to make installation easy and accurate, Cartridge exchange is very fast and sophisticated with all cartridges.
You'll probably admit if you've seen it yourself or experienced it.

 

[Kingrex]

I assume your local as Solypsa is close to me. Maybe you have time to share what your making.

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

I assume your local as Solypsa is close to me. Maybe you have time to share what your making.

Welcome, if you are in local.
I,ll be in town until May 8.

 

[Kingrex]

PM sent. Hope to meet

 

[Kingrex]

For this, and other reasons, namely distortion that accompanies tracking angle error which is inherent in all conventionally pivoted arms, I think conventional pivoted tonearms should be banned! Their liabilities are just too numerous to try and correct. The sonic advantages of a linear/radial tracking arm are obvious however the caveat is that like all arms, performance is a function of execution not just design. When LT's are set up correctly they can be quite wonderful and dare I say, make quite a bit of magic. A well executed good pivoted arm can also be quite lovely sonically, but they are all inherently flawed by comparison and their limitations are present from the outset that not even proper set-up can overcome.

I also remember you prodding me about my investment in vinyl. Get out while you can. Do you still find your vinyl is just different?

My DAC was damaged reciently when a tube blew in an OTL preamp I was trying. I opted to have the DAC upgraded while being repaired. We shall see how it all sounds when I get it back.

I still don't see ditching vinyl, even if only different. I don't know I need to blow up my collection of records with a lot more purchases, but there is something nice about touching them and reading the jacket. Its also nice when they play well. I'm a bit shocked at how well my system has jelled in the last few months. I have a new Lino Channel D3.3. And my First Sound preamp has been updated to the latest edition. I am confident my First Sound preamp would rival any preamp of any price category. The First Sound and Lino have taught me to appreciate how critical source equipment is. I use to chase amps. I know they matter. But having a world class preamp shows me thats a limiting philosophy.

I have only had my vinyl as a source for 3 months now. I also bricked my server a while back. I went to the local hifi shop as a manufacturer rep was showing his wares. Digital setup. I left, came home, ran my vinyl system and was soundly satisfied I enjoy my setup far greater on multiple levels. So the vinyl is doing something right. I just need to figure out where this breakup is coming from. From there who knowa.

 

[mtemur]

Klaudio tonearm just naturally track the groove without any skating issue.
You can find more in youtube video for Klaudio tonearm.

No, it does not. It definitely has a skating issue and needs anti-skating (according to the the arm in the video). It’s (the tonearm in the video) a tangential tracking tonearm with a fixed pivot point which means it requires anti-skating. It’s design is very similar to Thales arms.
It reduces tracking error by tilting headshell with the expense of rigidness.

 

[mtemur]

it tracks a perfect linear line without any skating, vibration, woveling and resonance.

That’s where you’re wrong cause skating is not related with stylus riding on a linear line or not. A better definition is tangential to the grooves or not.

Skating force is still there even if stylus rides tangentially to the grooves because skating force applies to pivot point which is fixed and it’s not tangential to the grooves. In order to eliminate skating force you need to move pivot point. That’s what Reed does (moving pivot point) which doesn’t require and doesn’t have anti-skating. That’s what Thales does not (not moving pivot point, fixed pivot) which requires and has anti-skating.

Long story short; cantilever/headshell is tangential to the grooves (hence tangential tracking tonearm) but arm is not. Draw a line between stylus and pivot point. When that line is perpendicular to a groove then there is no skating. It should be perpendicular to all the grooves. but obviously it’s not the case with your arm.

BTW Thales tonearms have anti-skating mechanism as well as Garrard.

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

No, it does not. It definitely has a skating issue and needs anti-skating (according to the the arm in the video). I deliberately didn’t write IMHO cause it’s (the tonearm in the video) a tangential tracking tonearm with a fixed pivot point which means it requires anti-skating. It’s design is very similar to Thales arms.
It reduces tracking error by tilting headshell with the expense

No, it does not. It definitely has a skating issue and needs anti-skating (according to the the arm in the video). It’s (the tonearm in the video) a tangential tracking tonearm with a fixed pivot point which means it requires anti-skating. It’s design is very similar to Thales arms.
It reduces tracking error by tilting headshell with the expense of rigidness.

If you could come, you'd see and understand and admit.

 

[mtemur]

IMHO tracking error is not a big problem but lack of rigidity is. It’s impossible to make a tonearm that is comprised of a couple of pieces and relies on a couple of bearings as rigid as a single piece tube. That’s another point which is totally independent from skating subject.

 

[Kingrex]

IMHO tracking error is not a big problem but lack of rigidity is. It’s impossible to make a tonearm that is comprised of a couple of pieces and relies on a couple of bearings as rigid as a single piece tube. That’s another point which is totally independent from skating subject.

This gets back to a question I asked earlier. Where are the big gains. Is it a stiff tube, anti skate, tracking error.

 

[mtemur]

If you could come, you'd see and understand and admit.

Thank you for the kind offer but I think I understood well how the tonearm works by watching YT video.
I recommend you to investigate tonearm geometry and consider adding an anti-skating mechanism.
Here is a piece of info from a document related with the subject.

Garrard Zero is also a pivoted tangential tonearm.
The main difference is Reed has a moving pivot, Garrard has a stationary (fixed, non-moving) pivot. This makes the difference side-force-wise (skating force).


The angle between green groove tangent line and T1 tonearm stylus-pivot line is more than (zero) 0 degrees because groove tangent line does not pass through the tonearm pivot. So there will be skating force.

 

[admin1959]

H

If you could come, you'd see and understand and admit.

Hi Peter, I PM'd you just now.

 

[Kingrex]

Why does everyone mess with the arm. Why not make a headshell that has a motorozed pivot and its position is driven by it tracking 2 small laser dots set on the plinth. You know, a triangle.

It could be easy to set up. Template with a spindle hole, needle point and the 2 laser dots drop into place.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Why does everyone mess with the arm. Why not make a headshell that has a motorozed pivot and its position is driven by it tracking 2 small laser dots set on the plinth. You know, a triangle.

It could be easy to set up. Template with a spindle hole, needle point and the 2 laser dots drop into place.

there is already, but without a motor

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Sorry for offtopic

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

H

Hi Peter, I PM'd you just now.

HI,
I got message from Julian, and I am more then happy to join to WBF.
Our manager Tim will response to Julian right away for WBF manufacturer's program.
Thank you so much.

 

[jeff1225]

I was fortunate enough to visit Peter's room with my good friend Scott Kushino. It is a play ground for audiophiles, with all of Peter's creations. His turntable and tonearm are the most sophisticated items I've ever seen.

 

[Solypsa]

Yeah watching the record clamping system is mesmerizing

 

[microstrip]

This gets back to a question I asked earlier. Where are the big gains. Is it a stiff tube, anti skate, tracking error.

IMO zero tracking error and the almost symmetrical forces - the same geometry of the cutter.

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

Here's a couple of videos showing a skating comparison.

 

[mtemur]

IMO zero tracking error and the almost symmetrical forces - the same geometry of the cutter.

I'm sorry to say that but it's not up to personal opinion or any opinion. That is a pivoted tonearm and skating force applies. It's basic geometry and mathematics. Cutter head is a linear tracker.

Here's a couple of videos showing a skating comparison.

As I said before skating force applies to your tonearm too. I recommend you to check tonearm geometry and forces involved. The videos you shared may be an indication of high friction associated with one or more bearings. Tonearm designers try to employ bearings with lowest friction and lowest resistance to start moving and they use only two (horizontally). Your tonearm has many bearings and total friction of those bearings may be keeping tonearm steady not the lack of skating force. Which is even worse than lack of anti-skating mechanism.