Pivoting Linear-Tracking Tonearms

[viola]

Thank you, Mark, for your explanation and observations. Does the lack of any (apparent) anti-skating on the Thales arms adversely affect their performance? I say "apparent" because the Thales literature is absolutely silent on anti-skating, but that does not preclude that there may be some anti-skating force embedded in the design, whether through torqued wires or otherwise. And your observation that the Statement you installed earlier this week sounded amazing suggests that the arm, either as designed or implemented, works well without any user-adjustable anti-skating. I am intrigued by all of these arms, so I appreciate everything that I can learn.

 

[Dohmann]

Thank you, Mark, for your explanation and observations. Does the lack of any (apparent) anti-skating on the Thales arms adversely affect their performance? I say "apparent" because the Thales literature is absolutely silent on anti-skating, but that does not preclude that there may be some anti-skating force embedded in the design, whether through torqued wires or otherwise. And your observation that the Statement you installed earlier this week sounded amazing suggests that the arm, either as designed or implemented, works well without any user-adjustable anti-skating. I am intrigued by all of these arms, so I appreciate everything that I can learn.

Hi Vac_man,
I’d recommend using a WallySkater or Orsonic SGR-1 tool to analyse the skating forces acting upon the Statement arm. Over time any pivoting arm with an offset headshell will create an imbalance of side forces on the cartridge damper which can lead to skewed cantilevers. If the cartridge is expensive this is worth considering.

 

[mtemur]

I notice that some of these pivoted linear-tracking arms, like the Reed 5A and 5T, have anti-skating adjustments whereas others, like the Thales Simplicity II and the Statement, do not.

Thales tomearms have a tilting head-shell which makes cantilever always to be tangential to the groove radius and eliminates tracking error. since armtube’s mounting point (pivot) is constant it requires antiskating. that’s why Thales tonearms have antiskating but it’s fixed by the factory and not user adjustable.

unlike Thales Reed 5T has a moving tonearm base which constantly changes pivot point. this design makes both cantilever and arm tube to be tangential to the groove radius which eliminates tracking error and skating force. I guess 5A shares a similar moving pivot design.

 

[bonzo75]

Schroeder LT doesn't need anti skating, I thought?

 

[thazeldean]

This past weekend Mark Doehmann flew up to my house in Mackay to fit the Reed 5A and align the cartridge (an Etsuro Urushi Bordeaux). Mark is one of the true gentlemen of the High End audio world, extremely knowledgeable and a turntable manufacturer of world class products, he brought with him an armboard manufactured from some exotic resin on which to mount the Reed.
So on Sunday he went to work installing the arm, which although it looks complicated, is not as daunting as I had anticipated. My existing armboard was one made by Bob Graham for the Phantom Supreme and very heavy, so with the new arm mounted and a lighter board, a re-levelling of the turntable was required. Once the TT was again level, the arm was levelled using the grub screws on the arm tower. Finally Mark mounted the cartridge and using the supplied alignment protractor set about fine tuning the alignment.
Then the test, music!!!
I played the 45rpm version of Rumours by Fleetwood Mac. I have always loved the song Dreams.
Initial reaction: I trust Mark's judgement so I anticipated some improvement in the sound, what I didn't anticipate was how much better the system sounded.
Initial summary of changes:
The central image was a lot more stable. Stevie Nick's was in the room, her voice was so lifelike (not that it was bad before it was just more lifelike).
The space between instruments was more noticeable, each sound had a position in space with more air around it, not clinical or sterile but better delineated in space while remaining musical. Any hint of sibilance was gone (a thing I find really noticeable and annoying, again this wasn't bad on the Graham but it was better on the Reed).
Soundstage depth was remarkably increased and width was marginally improved.
Bass, which was already very good, was better fleshed out with a bit more detail.
Midrange, especially voices were magical, the best I have heard on any system ever.
Treble was improved in the area of sounding more realistic, more natural and a little more actual high frequency energy. Cymbals sounded more lifelike and brush strokes were easier to hear.
Am I impressed? Yes mightily impressed, the improvements are not subtle and across a broad range of attributes. As I said it was not that there were improvements but rather how much difference the improvements made.
I have attached a photo of my hot-rodded Clearaudio Master Reference. Sitting on a Minus K platform. Again thanks to Mark. The Reed 5A is securely mounted.
Any downside?
Well actually yes, I will have to modify my dust cover to fit over the TT again because the Reed protrudes more. Oh well!!!
Tony.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Tony,

Congratulations! I am so happy for you!

1) Yes, Mark Doehmann is amazing! I feel like I’ve gotten to know him quite well, as he has joined me on Clubhouse once or twice a week for many months now. I have two close friends for whom Mark has gone above and beyond to help and to make happy. Whatever is the theoretical maximum Mark can do for a client he aims right for that point. I am not exaggerating.

2) “Midrange, especially voices were magical”: I one hundred percent agree! I have said and written for years now that I think linear-tracking tonearms weave an ethereal magic on voices! (For the avoidance of doubt this should not be interpreted to imply that linear-tracking tonearms do not also sound wonderful and realistic on instruments, but I do not consider myself at all qualified to opine on the sonic reproduction of instruments.)

3) Mark has more experience comparing directly and installing Schröder tonearms and Reed tonearms than anyone else I have encountered. I have been grateful to be able to ask him loads of questions over the last year regarding his philosophies about LP playback and turntable design, the sonic merits of different types of cartridges, the sonic merits of different brands and models of cartridges, the sonic merits of different tonearms, vinyl versus tape, analog versus digital, and Graz Apogees versus original Apogees versus Alsyvox. His experience with these matters is encyclopedic. Not surprisingly, he is extremely generous with his time and his knowledge.

You are in excellent hands, and I am truly happy for the leap in realism your system has taken! You picked a great tonearm!

 

[bonzo75]

3) Mark has more experience comparing directly and installing Schröder tonearms and Reed tonearms than anyone else I have encountered.

Mark Dohmann uses the Schroeder CB on the Dohmann table not the LT. So what’s his experience with the LT?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Mark Dohmann uses the Schroeder CB on the Dohmann table not the LT. So what’s his experience with the LT?

He’ll put on whichever Schroder tonearm you want. He has significant experience with the LT.

 

[marty]

Mark is indeed the man! He has gone above and beyond with me on my Helix 1 Mk2 and I would have put a bullet in my head setting up the Reed 5T if it weren't for him.

 

[gleeds]

Tony,

Congratulations! I am so happy for you!

1) Yes, Mark Doehmann is amazing! I feel like I’ve gotten to know him quite well, as he has joined me on Clubhouse once or twice a week for many months now. I have two close friends for whom Mark has gone above and beyond to help and to make happy. Whatever is the theoretical maximum Mark can do for a client he aims right for that point. I am not exaggerating.

2) “Midrange, especially voices were magical”: I one hundred percent agree! I have said and written for years now that I think linear-tracking tonearms weave an ethereal magic on voices! (For the avoidance of doubt this should not be interpreted to imply that linear-tracking tonearms do not also sound wonderful and realistic on instruments, but I do not consider myself at all qualified to opine on the sonic reproduction of instruments.)

3) Mark has more experience comparing directly and installing Schröder tonearms and Reed tonearms than anyone else I have encountered. I have been grateful to be able to ask him loads of questions over the last year regarding his philosophies about LP playback and turntable design, the sonic merits of different types of cartridges, the sonic merits of different brands and models of cartridges, the sonic merits of different tonearms, vinyl versus tape, analog versus digital, and Graz Apogees versus original Apogees versus Alsyvox. His experience with these matters is encyclopedic. Not surprisingly, he is extremely generous with his time and his knowledge.

You are in excellent hands, and I am truly happy for the leap in realism your system has taken! You picked a great tonearm!

Ron, for us stateside, I would add Christoper Thornton of Artisan Fidelity to the few masters of experience with Schroeder and Reed tonearms.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, for us stateside, I would add Christoper Thornton of Artisan Fidelity to the few masters of experience with Schroeder and Reed tonearms.

Good to know!

Has Christopher installed successfully a Reed 5T?

 

[bonzo75]

Anamighty in EU has installed a few of both and CS port. On Dohmann, Reed, and Schroeder little giant table

 

[gleeds]

Good to know!

Has Christopher installed successfully a Reed 5T?

Not sure, Ron. I will ask him. As I understand it from Marty, setting one up for the first time can be somewhat of a challenge.

 

[thazeldean]

Tony,

Congratulations! I am so happy for you!

1) Yes, Mark Doehmann is amazing! I feel like I’ve gotten to know him quite well, as he has joined me on Clubhouse once or twice a week for many months now. I have two close friends for whom Mark has gone above and beyond to help and to make happy. Whatever is the theoretical maximum Mark can do for a client he aims right for that point. I am not exaggerating.

2) “Midrange, especially voices were magical”: I one hundred percent agree! I have said and written for years now that I think linear-tracking tonearms weave an ethereal magic on voices! (For the avoidance of doubt this should not be interpreted to imply that linear-tracking tonearms do not also sound wonderful and realistic on instruments, but I do not consider myself at all qualified to opine on the sonic reproduction of instruments.)

3) Mark has more experience comparing directly and installing Schröder tonearms and Reed tonearms than anyone else I have encountered. I have been grateful to be able to ask him loads of questions over the last year regarding his philosophies about LP playback and turntable design, the sonic merits of different types of cartridges, the sonic merits of different brands and models of cartridges, the sonic merits of different tonearms, vinyl versus tape, analog versus digital, and Graz Apogees versus original Apogees versus Alsyvox. His experience with these matters is encyclopedic. Not surprisingly, he is extremely generous with his time and his knowledge.

You are in excellent hands, and I am truly happy for the leap in realism your system has taken! You picked a great tonearm!

Hello Ron,

I can attest to the sonic attributes of Graz Apogees. I have the only pair in the world (that I am aware of) of the Diva A9. A speaker that Mark thought was closer to the Full Range. I think Graz would agree because that was what he indicated in our discussions. I have not heard the Alsyvox but I believe the sound is very similar.

Graz Apogee below:

Build quality is second to none.



Midrange and treble ribbons

Tony,

Congratulations! I am so happy for you!

1) Yes, Mark Doehmann is amazing! I feel like I’ve gotten to know him quite well, as he has joined me on Clubhouse once or twice a week for many months now. I have two close friends for whom Mark has gone above and beyond to help and to make happy. Whatever is the theoretical maximum Mark can do for a client he aims right for that point. I am not exaggerating.

2) “Midrange, especially voices were magical”: I one hundred percent agree! I have said and written for years now that I think linear-tracking tonearms weave an ethereal magic on voices! (For the avoidance of doubt this should not be interpreted to imply that linear-tracking tonearms do not also sound wonderful and realistic on instruments, but I do not consider myself at all qualified to opine on the sonic reproduction of instruments.)

3) Mark has more experience comparing directly and installing Schröder tonearms and Reed tonearms than anyone else I have encountered. I have been grateful to be able to ask him loads of questions over the last year regarding his philosophies about LP playback and turntable design, the sonic merits of different types of cartridges, the sonic merits of different brands and models of cartridges, the sonic merits of different tonearms, vinyl versus tape, analog versus digital, and Graz Apogees versus original Apogees versus Alsyvox. His experience with these matters is encyclopedic. Not surprisingly, he is extremely generous with his time and his knowledge.

You are in excellent hands, and I am truly happy for the leap in realism your system has taken! You picked a great tonearm!

 

[DasguteOhr]

Schroeder LT doesn't need anti skating, I thought?

You can test this very easily, you take several test records and play the 8db (60um) test track, which every cart plays without distortion. once in the outer, middle and inner area. if it distorts in one place you know that it needs antiskating then you are smarter and you know the result.

 

[Ron Resnick]

As I understand it from Marty, setting one up for the first time can be somewhat of a challenge.

I consider Marty now to be the most experienced Reed 5T installer in the Western Hemisphere, and in five of the seven continents.

 

[Dohmann]

Mark Dohmann uses the Schroeder CB on the Dohmann table not the LT. So what’s his experience with the LT?

Hi Bonzo75
We use lots of arms on Helix platform. A few weeks back I installed Reed 3P10coco, Graham Elite 10 and Reed 5T on Helix Two with three separately balanced armboards to alllw for simple interchange on one table. Then a Shroder LT Snakewood on another Helix Two in Sydney then a 5T in another Helix One. A Kuzma Safir on another table.

Whilst the website shows CB9 in photos we have mounted lots of other arms including LT pivoted such as Thales Reference and Simplicity on Helix platforms.

My experience with LT has been in installing and using them at shows and on client systems. I love the LT design and approach to managing stylus traction. For me it sits nestled between the 5A and 5T in topology used to free the stylus from working on managing the rear of the arm. It does this with an absolutely genius magnetic coupling / guide follower. This leads to an uncompressed open soundstage character I’ve enjoyed from linear arms in the past without the hassles of bearing feeds. I look at what the diamond in the groove has to “drive” in the arm. The 5A it’s a low friction linkage to drive the rear “gimbal” into near linear path. The LT a low stiction “gimbal” on a low stiction crossmember guided into place by a magnetic bearing attracted to a “monorail” which positions the main gimbal at an optimum arc to deliver a near linear path. The LT reduces the “load” the stylus has to drive compared to 5A. The 5T takes this concept further by removing the linkage “load” and drives the gimbal to the best path for near linear operation. This is audible in a positive sense.

But totally agree on how much experience one can get on LTs. Frank (I hope your listening!!) builds these wonderful devices by hand and in limited quantities. I’ve got another on order and hopefully in few epochs it will be ready. The midband punch on these LTs is something to behold. We need to clone Frank or lock him up in the workshop and pass food trays under the door until he builds 100 arms. But then we wouldn’t have his humour to contend with (and enjoy).

In the meantime a skating error free experience can be enjoyed in short order timeframe from an equally talented Vidmantas at Reed.

I really like the sonicsthese designs deliver. For classic arms I’m mighty impressed by Korf reimagining the replaceable headshell designs. Super handy if your running up a Koetsu vertical shootout which is something I would struggle with on a 5T (round enters chamber…….Marty joke!!)

happy listening!!

 

[Holmz]

Tony,

Congratulations! I am so happy for you!

1) Yes, Mark Doehmann is amazing!…

Yeah… as the saying goes, “the bloke makes it difficult not to like him.“

 

[Buck_Rogers]

Is the fluid/silicone trough in front of the cartridge or befind ? It looks like there is no arm ! What is the pressure of the air bearing ?

The platter has a .0035 bowl shape that flattens out the LP.

The arm operates usually around 12 PSI, Pictures are from 2005.

Never use Silicone~! It creeps and ruins everything. We use 50 weight Mobil 1 Synthetic (Has no smell).

 

[Buck_Rogers]

It seems to me that there are often minor warps in vinyl and that without vacuum hold down a short tonearm would alter VTA much greater than a pivoted tangential tracker, but I must admit I do not know if the fluid dampening eliminates that (or not).

We already thought of that problem, Fixed it by machining the platter with a .0035" incline that traps the LP into a bowl shape.

Tonearm runs at about 12 PSI.

Also NEVER use Silicone! it creeps.