Koda K10 preamp in my home for evaluation

[LL21]

I totaly agree with sonrock. I do not like the Phillips.... of course for 20$ it is a good tube but we are talking about a 18000 Euro Preamp. I saw my Telefunken now costs over 100$. To my ears it is much better

In what ways do you find it better than Phillips? That will help me in my expectation as to how it might possibly compare with Amperex or Mullard. Thanks for any guidance.

 

[sonrock]

I see the Philips 6922 are brighter, less warm and dynamic than the Mullard and Telefunken, especially the involving - like you are pulled by the music. Everything is better, some says very much, some says somehow, but it is better Sir when swapping Philips by the Mullard and Telefunken. Compared to the pre value, the NOS selected tubes cost me about few $k and I think its reasonable, I am very happy with them at the end of the day. But honestly, the Philips 6922 tubes are excellent too for their value compared to very expensive Mullard or Telefunken or Siemens. The choice is yours Sir, and its fun for tubes rolling. The Telefunken E288CC and E188CC cost me nearly $400 each pair, $300 for the Telefunken E88CC, and $500 for the Siemens CCa. 8 Mullard CV2493 cost me nearly $1000. I know I am crazy

However, it should be cleared that different pres will behave differently with different tubes. So to make sure which one is the best, you have no choice by trying them in your place Sir.

 

[jpetek]

A Philips sounds clean. I have always the feeling I am listing to a Record. With a Telefunkten it is more Life. I think I see a real Singer in Front of me. I think this is the best Tube for my SF.

You can start with the Genalex. It is not expensive, you can match them and you get a impression how a Telefunken sound. My Dealer means the difference is not more than 5-10%.

if you like the modern Sound then the Reflektor is a good Tube for you. Better Mids and Highs as the Phillips.

 

[LL21]

I see the Philips 6922 are brighter, less warm and dynamic than the Mullard and Telefunken, especially the involving - like you are pulled by the music. Everything is better, some says very much, some says somehow, but it is better Sir when swapping Philips by the Mullard and Telefunken. Compared to the pre value, the NOS selected tubes cost me about few $k and I think its reasonable, I am very happy with them at the end of the day. But honestly, the Philips 6922 tubes are excellent too for their value compared to very expensive Mullard or Telefunken or Siemens. The choice is yours Sir, and its fun for tubes rolling. The Telefunken E288CC and E188CC cost me nearly $400 each pair, $300 for the Telefunken E88CC, and $500 for the Siemens CCa. 8 Mullard CV2493 cost me nearly $1000. I know I am crazy

However, it should be cleared that different pres will behave differently with different tubes. So to make sure which one is the best, you have no choice by trying them in your place Sir.

A Philips sounds clean. I have always the feeling I am listing to a Record. With a Telefunkten it is more Life. I think I see a real Singer in Front of me. I think this is the best Tube for my SF.

You can start with the Genalex. It is not expensive, you can match them and you get a impression how a Telefunken sound. My Dealer means the difference is not more than 5-10%.

if you like the modern Sound then the Reflektor is a good Tube for you. Better Mids and Highs as the Phillips.

Thank you both. I have been recommended to try Siemens 6922s by Audio Exotics who are an experienced and respected Zanden dealer. I am tempted to try Telefunkens as well.

 

[defride]

just my 2 cents here Sirs, I am fortunate enough to have the Koda K10 in my house for about 4-5 hours, the dealer brought it here. After listening to it carefully and compared to my einstein the tube preamp with 19 nos tubes, I prefer the sound of my einstein more. It doesnt mean the koda k10 is not good, but in terms of dynamic and involving, I see the einstein is better. Also to compare the price of the 2 pres, the einstein is clearly the winner here. I will see the koda dealer soon and ask him about the k15, but I doubt I can afford it here in the UK while I am leaning on upgrading my digital first.

Probably I did not have a long enough period for testifying the Koda k10, but what I came out of the 4-5h listening to it then its my experience. The immediate differences can be heard after switching the pre in my system, I know this is probably my personal taste. I've not listened to CJ pre so I have no comment, but what I dont like is their preamps dont have balanced in-outputs, so I stay away.

Hi Sonrock, I hope you're well. As we've discussed there's always another perspective so it's probably right to share here.

I was with Sonrock and the dealer when the K-10 went into his system. It was a great day and Sonrock is a gracious host.

It's interesting to note the different perspective that each takes from the same situation. For instance when the Einstein went back into the system after the K-10 Sonrock smiled and mentioned that he felt the soundstage had expanded. That's not at all what I noticed, the overriding sense for me was how much more base the Einstein delivered, it filled the room somewhat more with that silky sense that great tubes can deliver. At the same time I felt that the mid's and upper frequencies leaned out somewhat. For me the K-10 rode the line of balance in a more neutral and engaging way though Sonrock's preference was for the greater bass weight.

At one point I discussed sharing my impression of the day on the other thread that revolved around the speakers but for various reasons that didn't come to pass. In light of the current scrunity it's probably worth offering a short overview.

My overriding impression after visiting was of an interesting set of componentry rather dominated by the room. In some respects the system was outstanding, speed and dynamics were as good as I've heard. Given a good recording the system easily floats a beautiful central image of a vocal however it seemed to me there was a suckout in the midrange which particularly affected the imaging behind in terms of resolution, timing and space between notes. It rather muddied the presentation. As an example Luisa Sobrel, a Portugese singer delivers fairly straightforward sweet jazz numbers in the vein of a Diana Krell. The arrangements arn't particularly dense however even with the K-10 in place the system failed to reproduce the acoustic double bass within the mix in an identifiable way. This inability to deliver the correct identity of some acoustic instruments was a feature of the afternoon when compared to my references.

The other notable feature was a tendency to brightness. If one had only heard Jeff Buckley - Grace here the quality of the recording may have come into question. His vocal delivery is naturally sibilant, when a system tends to brightness this presentation can tip over into brightness that can make the recording difficult to listen to. On a system that delivers an open and natural top end the vocal sounds sibilant in a natural way, there's no question of the humanity. For me the system I listened to that day was very much in the former camp.

In essence, for me, the system delivered wonderful excitment but lacked the refinement to portray a natural acoustic, the issues I had with it are likely to be largely down to room interaction.

As regards the pre's, horses for courses isn't it? My preference was for the K-10, Sonrock's the Einstein.

 

[sonrock]

thank you Sir, I am fine here . Selling my digital and pre to prepare for a new upgrade which I hope will not disappoint me.

regarding your comments about einstein, actually what I heard is the Einstein delivered more airs than the Koda on that day, and about the double bass, both pre could not give me the feeling of your recording which I am not familiar with, so I dont make any comment here. As I said, probably I did not have longer time to evaluate the Koda K10, but I hope I will have a better opportunity with the K15 when its released .

my room now is different with panels and layout, also cables from top to bottom, so I dont know if the Koda K10 comes back, what will happen. I'll find out soon.

I dont know at the moment, changing my digital will be better or changing the pre. If the first option, I will sell my pre + cdp to get a new stack of digital which has vol control. If the second option, I just sell my pre and add some extra doses to bring a new pre home while keeping the cdp. I'm struggling!

 

[defride]

thank you Sir, I am fine here . Selling my digital and pre to prepare for a new upgrade which I hope will not disappoint me.

regarding your comments about einstein, actually what I heard is the Einstein delivered more airs than the Koda on that day, and about the double bass, both pre could not give me the feeling of your recording which I am not familiar with, so I dont make any comment here. As I said, probably I did not have longer time to evaluate the Koda K10, but I hope I will have a better opportunity with the K15 when its released .

my room now is different with panels and layout, also cables from top to bottom, so I dont know if the Koda K10 comes back, what will happen. I'll find out soon.

I dont know at the moment, changing my digital will be better or changing the pre. If the first option, I will sell my pre + cdp to get a new stack of digital which has vol control. If the second option, I just sell my pre and add some extra doses to bring a new pre home while keeping the cdp. I'm struggling!

Best of luck, whichever way you choose to go!

 

[sonrock]

Sirs, just a quick update. Yesterday the Koda dealers came to my place and stayed for about 6-7 hours with their K10 - this is the new unit which is 4 months old and different from the previous unit - and I have to say, I was moved this time by its performance. Although the dealer told me my system sounds very different from the previous time she came here with better focus and presentation, besides my speakers now are interacting better with my room after treated by acoustics panels; we all agreed that K10 sounded very different from the last time.

when I first replaced my einstein by the k10, the dealers told me they did hear the differences but very minor. In fact, they felt both preamps sounded quite similar in my system and my wadia s7i was dominating in the sound. that was their feelings.

but I did hear the differences because all the CDs are mine with tracks I am familiar with, I have to say the koda k10 this time did an amazing job, cant say its better than my einstein or vice versa, but it did very well. Sweet beautiful midrange, a bit lack of dynamics compared to einstein but more resolutions and details in the high. The K10 is "more neutral" than the einstein but a bit less warm - this is not a really big issue for me. In addition, I feel the K10 produced too much trebles compared to einstein. It doesnt mean the k10 is bright or harsh, but so much trebles.

I am thinking very seriously to buy the k10 if the offer meets my target budget, as I wont need to worry about tubes etc which I have to concern if I buy Einstein The Preamp. and in the future, when the k15 released and if my financial status allows me, I will trade the k10 in and get the k15 from the dealers.

its surprised when I have 2 completely different experiences with the k10 - even with different units - in my place. the first time was very disappointed and the second time I was moved by its wonderful performance. but money is the key now, the k10 list price is about 9-10k sterling pounds more expensive than the preamp @@

 

[jfrech]

Sirs, just a quick update. Yesterday the Koda dealers came to my place and stayed for about 6-7 hours with their K10 - this is the new unit which is 4 months old and different from the previous unit - and I have to say, I was moved this time by its performance. Although the dealer told me my system sounds very different from the previous time she came here with better focus and presentation, besides my speakers now are interacting better with my room after treated by acoustics panels; we all agreed that K10 sounded very different from the last time.

when I first replaced my einstein by the k10, the dealers told me they did hear the differences but very minor. In fact, they felt both preamps sounded quite similar in my system and my wadia s7i was dominating in the sound. that was their feelings.

but I did hear the differences because all the CDs are mine with tracks I am familiar with, I have to say the koda k10 this time did an amazing job, cant say its better than my einstein or vice versa, but it did very well. Sweet beautiful midrange, a bit lack of dynamics compared to einstein but more resolutions and details in the high. The K10 is "more neutral" than the einstein but a bit less warm - this is not a really big issue for me. In addition, I feel the K10 produced too much trebles compared to einstein. It doesnt mean the k10 is bright or harsh, but so much trebles.

I am thinking very seriously to buy the k10 if the offer meets my target budget, as I wont need to worry about tubes etc which I have to concern if I buy Einstein The Preamp. and in the future, when the k15 released and if my financial status allows me, I will trade the k10 in and get the k15 from the dealers.

its surprised when I have 2 completely different experiences with the k10 - even with different units - in my place. the first time was very disappointed and the second time I was moved by its wonderful performance. but money is the key now, the k10 list price is about 9-10k sterling pounds more expensive than the preamp @@

Hi, glad you got to try the K10 again. I've had mine for about 6 weeks...Just mesmerizing. To me the dynamics are lightning fast...like the strike of a stick on a drumhead...I do think after the K10 has moved around (like in a car to your home) it takes it a few days to settle down...so I suspect if you had more time with it you'd appreciate what it can do even more. What seems to change is the warming, with no loss (maybe even more) resolution in the mids and treble. I am guessing your 2nd try just needed more time to settle down from transport...

I am curious about the K15, but my K10 isn't the weak link...I think next a phono stage for me...hoping Koda releases theirs soon...apparently it's in the works but no promises on delivery date...maybe end of year...maybe longer...

For some reason I didn't think there was a version one of this pre...and now a version 2...maybe something was wrong with the first sample? Hard to say...

Let us know if you decide to purchase!

 

[sonrock]

thank you Sir for your inputs and yes I decided to go a head, a large deposit is paid and the rest small will be paid later to purchase the K10. Probably it will get it back here in the next 2 weeks, I will keep you posted of how it sounds in my place after time.

 

[LL21]

thank you Sir for your inputs and yes I decided to go a head, a large deposit is paid and the rest small will be paid later to purchase the K10. Probably it will get it back here in the next 2 weeks, I will keep you posted of how it sounds in my place after time.

Congrats! Do let us know how it sounds when it's settled in!

 

[sonrock]

thank you Sir, I'll do. I am just wondering how the K15 sounds compared to the K10, and I'll find out soon when it is released and the dealer will bring it here for me. I just hope the K10 is more than enough and considered as the ultimate pre for me

I was searching for a dart pre but could not find one, I thought I'd have it at home for demo and see how good it is compared to my einstein. Today one has come up in the second hand market and I am asking the shop for home trial, it should be fun if I can get that priority and compare to the koda k10. I listened to the combo pre-pow dartzeel previously driving the magico q5 which I am using and very impressed although the dynamic of dart power cant be compared to the karan 2000 monoblocks IMVO, but the overall performance was superb on that day.

have any of you listened to both the koda k10 and dartzeel pre?

 

[LL21]

If you do hear them, let us know what you think. Combinations of pre/power will matter, but curious as to any observations you have under most any audition circumstances.

 

[asiufy]

thank you Sir, I'll do. I am just wondering how the K15 sounds compared to the K10, and I'll find out soon when it is released and the dealer will bring it here for me. I just hope the K10 is more than enough and considered as the ultimate pre for me

I was searching for a dart pre but could not find one, I thought I'd have it at home for demo and see how good it is compared to my einstein. Today one has come up in the second hand market and I am asking the shop for home trial, it should be fun if I can get that priority and compare to the koda k10. I listened to the combo pre-pow dartzeel previously driving the magico q5 which I am using and very impressed although the dynamic of dart power cant be compared to the karan 2000 monoblocks IMVO, but the overall performance was superb on that day.

have any of you listened to both the koda k10 and dartzeel pre?

The 108 can't drive the Q5, so obviously the Karan was better, on that particular speaker. You have the Q5, right?
The 18NS pre is excellent, and you get a very good phono pre with it! Let us know what you think of it...


alexandre

 

[sonrock]

yes Sir, I am using the q5. actually the einstein with nos tubes is the reference pre for me during the last 2 years, and the only reason for me to move to koda is to avoiding my 2 years old daughter running around and want to toy with the tubes, besides the performance of the koda this time is superb. I know I have to pay a lots more to get the k10 instead of the preamp, but I am happy with my decision. In addition, as owners at AE forum said, it take time for the k10 to settle down and perform at its very best. Many including me experienced the k10 improvement after warming up and properly running in.

regarding the dartzeel 18ns, I am just curious how it sounds in my system, especially compared to the K10. one is Japanese made and one is Swiss made, very very interesting. Those 2 countries for me are probably standing for the best build quality in this world. The dart dealer will bring it here I hope if it is not yet sold to my mate or someone else.

 

[egidius]

I am using an S7i GNSC and never could get dcs sound as good, but never heard scarlatti upwards..

 

[LL21]

I am using an S7i GNSC and never could get dcs sound as good, but never heard scarlatti upwards..

I have heard regular s7i in a shoot out with Esoteric X-01SE...good deal of fun that day. Also spent time on several occasions with Scarlatti and just had nice few hours with former distributor of DCS. They take real work...but spend the time, and they really are worth it. The resolution is remarkable, and if you can get the organic bit out of them, its magic. I have heard a system that did just this...he worked hard at it...but he has resolution and organics the likes of which I've not heard before.

 

[sonrock]

I had the 2 K10 here yesterday and now one 4 months old - almost brand new just played for about 30h - is sitting on the top of my hifi rack. The sound is so good now and closer to the dynamic of the einstein which I like, besides it has its own character of the Koda sound, very full body, organic, musical and superb resolution. I need couple of months more for my K10 burning in properly as I do listen to the music at the weekend usually, sometime in the middle of the week in the night time. Even the price here in the UK is killing me but I think I made a right decision. Now I just hope the K15 will not be very much better than the K10, otherwise I will sell some organs to bring it home . Its very interesting that some says the Koda sounds even better than the Kondo and price is more earth but not sky. If I change my s7i, I am seriously thinking to take a very good dac first like vivaldi or diamond dac IV plus with top parts (fempto galaxy, i2s, etc) then think about the transport later. the K10 is quite special after owning so many preamps - many are tubes - and its easily seduced by its sweet midrange as many said like tube.

 

[sonrock]

just a quick update, the very first unit which came to my house was not performing at its best due to my IC cables, I used rca from s7i to the k10 and xlr from the k10 to my karan 2000, so the switch was not in balance mode, so that might affect the overall performance on the day. Now everything is fully balanced from in to out so thats the reason why I hear it sounds completely different from the first time, and very very similar to the einstein which has 19 carefully selected NOS tubes. The Paganini I'm playing while typing these words are great, very very real and musical.

 

[jfrech]

Very happy to read that you are getting to hear the Koda K 10 at it's best...I thought something might have been out of sorts the first time you heard it...given the sounds I am getting from my K 10...