Lampizator Valve / Tube Rolling Review Thread

Golum

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Alrainbow

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I vastly prefer the Marconi / Osram PX25 to RDs. I have a very good testing pair of both. But I am running the RDs one volt too low.

Sometime soon I will adjust the DAC to run the RDs and PX25 exactly at 4V. I think it will make a significant difference. I am very lucky to be able to run any valve at its precise voltage rating. But it is an effort to do so. Normally I run valves with approximate heater settings as I believe all Lampizators do, though they are optimised for one valve out of the factory. Mine was last done by Lampizator for PX4. But the DAC has been radically altered since.

Look at your test data sheets for what the DAC was optimised with out of the factory, as Al said.

Tesla AD1n is NOS so I don't know what you mean. Only a lot of valves sold as NOS have in fact been used I reckon. Not all, but a lot!
Soon I’ll be making my own heater circuit to use a few odd tubes as well. 2A3 being the first one.
 

User211

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Soon I’ll be making my own heater circuit to use a few odd tubes as well. 2A3 being the first one.

Cool. Be interested to see what you think are the best 2A3s as mine will do them but I haven't got any decent 2A3s.
 

User211

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Guys just a reminder. You cannot run AD1n, the Tesla tube, on 101D or PX4 setting and expect full output on both tubes.

Use the 300B setting. Just had someone else saying they thought they had a faulty AD1n. He was using low switch position in a GG1. It's a no go. You might get full output on both tubes if you are lucky but YOU WILL be lucky. Typically one or maybe both tubes won't give full output on low.
 
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Crashem

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Cool. Be interested to see what you think are the best 2A3s as mine will do them but I haven't got any decent 2A3s.

I have a 2a3:amp that I use for a headphone setup so my comments are reserved for that. Here are some you should take a look at.

new production:
psvane acme supreme: decent all around
eml 2a3 mesh: they currently have an anniversary globe version available: I think better than psvane. A bit less bass but better top end. top to bottom consistency for a “coherent” sound

old:
worth finding the VTV Issue about 2a3’s
Almost any mono plate especially rca and fivre
rca dual black plates
kenrad black glass: for bass heads

Personally I would get the eml 2a3 mesh anniversary and rca dual black plates to start without crazy investment
 
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bonzo75

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Are the mono plates that much better as per their price reputation?
 

adamaley

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Apr 15, 2016
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Guys just a reminder. You cannot run AD1n, the Tesla tube, on 101D or PX4 setting and expect full output on both tubes.

Use the 300B setting. Just had someone else saying they thought they had a faulty AD1n. He was using low switch position in a GG1. It's a no go. You might get full output on both tubes if you are lucky but YOU WILL be lucky. Typically one or maybe both tubes won't give full output on low.
This has been my consensus on the AD1ns. I use the 300B setting, and if the tube's life is reduced, so be it. They are relatively affordable and sound terrific.
 
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User211

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This has been my consensus on the AD1ns. I use the 300B setting, and if the tube's life is reduced, so be it. They are relatively affordable and sound terrific.

I doubt it will be reduced by much. The chap who did my DAC found the same thing I did prior to the mods i.e. you have to run at higher voltage than the supposed 4V specification on AD1n. So he trimmed mine to run at 4.5V, which definitely does the job.

So if your DAC is bang on 5V (which I doubt it will be but hey) you're not much more than 10% out. That's not too bad. And even that assumes that 4.5V is really 'right', which is dubious.

He just said you can't trust the spec on older valves.

Note also new issues of classic triodes don't even follow the original valve's specifications in a lot of cases.
 
Last edited:

Golum

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Jun 7, 2018
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C19 summer "fun" time is coming to an end, so it was a time to start thinking how to do something meaningful regarding HiFi and in my book tube rolling takes a quite high spot (financially better than rolling gear :)).
Story about the tube I/We will talk/write here was ignited during a visit which @wisnon and myself had mid of August to Mr. Gunter Tobian to roll some LPs and listen to his nice products. During the time we've been there, I spotted few boxes of tubes which he uses in his DHT based preamps (SC12s, SC1) which instantly triggered my and Norms curiosity and seeing the tube spec, seed within me was planted and already started to grow. is
This particular tube has 5V heater with 0.25A and I've checked during the same day with Yoda if it can be used in Lampi and got his blessing to use 300b setting for Pacific/GG2.
Now finally let me name the tube I talk about - it is tube which started its life sort of century ago with the designation UX112A and later been named just 112A or 12A and having different shapes from globe to coke bottle.
More nice details you can find in the description from Thomas Mayer where it was also named a tube of the month back in 2017: http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2017/03/tube-of-month-ux112a.html.
With getting the approval from Yoda, I started to chase the tubes and as always eBay proved to be a nice destination and kind of immediately I got myself Cunningham RCA Globe UX112A version from early 20s of the last century (what a nice feeling to use 100 years old tube).
Comparing to previous times, this time I also wanted to check how the tube performs with several friends simultaneously to have several data points and opinions available before we write the findings. What was important to me is that we have a same base ie DAC and all three of us have Pacific SE with of course different rest of the systems, so overall it is a nice starting point.
With this said, I want to thank Ben from Singapore who is an often visitor of these pages but does not post a lot- if at all (Ben pls do it now :)) and David aka @dminches who we all know well. Guys thanks a lot for jumping on the boat on my crazy hint :)
OK, to cut the crap - let me write my personal view on the tube.
Physically tube is a midget comparing to RD27 and even Elrog 300b but still looking very sturdy and well done. I would say that gain is higher vs 300b for 5-10%, maybe a tad more, but nothing close to RD/PX25/242. I didn't notice any microphonics and it plays dead silent (globe version i have). Now very interesting part is and goes hand in hand with old saying that poison is usually kept in small bottles and this is the case with this tube. It performs amazing by any means possible. Yes, its not the speed or details champion (and i'm comparing with RD27, PX25/242/ad1 which are for me monster tubes in Pac/GG2) and btw its not far from them in this regard but the entire package it gives its totally overwhelming and seductive and here i talk about staging, tone color, rendering of voices and one thing which for me kind of stands out is decay as with this tube it seems that tones last forever - just amazing. I have to mention I used ACME 274b rectifier during my listening tests and for example Ben much more preferred the pairing with RK 5u4g then ACME, while David I believe used different options.
I hope/I'm sure David and Ben will add up here and give their view on things, but for me this is one of the best tubes so far and a definitive must have in collection (ordered a second pair already but coke bottle shape :)).
You want to hear best of the best things - if you score them (not to many out there) they are DIRT cheap - less then proper pentodes and I still can't wrap my head around why they are priced as they are (hope it stays like this).
Few pictures for illustration, and as always, happy rolling guys!

Cheers;
G
e519c702-6a5a-454a-af2f-f790c7cff3fa.jpeg IMG_0145.jpeg IMG_0179.jpeg 112A.jpg 112A 1.jpg
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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I am glad Goran to spilled the beans. I have been listening to this tube for close to 2 weeks now and I have had no desire to take the tube out. It is very musical and doesn’t seem to have any real weaknesses. The bass is full and tight. The mids and highs are nicely balanced. So enjoyable.

Big thanks to Goran for introducing me to this.
 

adamaley

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Apr 15, 2016
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Minnetonka, MN
Great stuff fellas. Thanks for exploring this tube and introducing it to us. I see a National Union version of the tube in one of the pictures. IME, They tend to sound better than most, especially RCAs, in other tube types. Have you guys given the National Unions a listen yet? If so, how do they compare to the RCAs?
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Guys just a reminder. You cannot run AD1n, the Tesla tube, on 101D or PX4 setting and expect full output on both tubes.

Use the 300B setting. Just had someone else saying they thought they had a faulty AD1n. He was using low switch position in a GG1. It's a no go. You might get full output on both tubes if you are lucky but YOU WILL be lucky. Typically one or maybe both tubes won't give full output on low.
Correct, Low setting on GG1 is 4.5w, ie VxC. Even based on official spec, the AD1n is 8W. High even for high setting which maxes at about 7w.
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
3,264
396
455
I am glad Goran to spilled the beans. I have been listening to this tube for close to 2 weeks now and I have had no desire to take the tube out. It is very musical and doesn’t seem to have any real weaknesses. The bass is full and tight. The mids and highs are nicely balanced. So enjoyable.

Big thanks to Goran for introducing me to this.
Did U compare to ST bottle shape yet?
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
3,264
396
455
Great stuff fellas. Thanks for exploring this tube and introducing it to us. I see a National Union version of the tube in one of the pictures. IME, They tend to sound better than most, especially RCAs, in other tube types. Have you guys given the National Unions a listen yet? If so, how do they compare to the RCAs?
That is the tube from Guenter's place. I am waiting on Sylvanias myself.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
1,479
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440
Did U compare to ST bottle shape yet?

I did and I preferred the globes but that could easily change. There wasn’t a bigger difference.
 
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LR319

Member
May 7, 2019
6
7
8
61
C19 summer "fun" time is coming to an end, so it was a time to start thinking how to do something meaningful regarding HiFi and in my book tube rolling takes a quite high spot (financially better than rolling gear :)).
Story about the tube I/We will talk/write here was ignited during a visit which @wisnon and myself had mid of August to Mr. Gunter Tobian to roll some LPs and listen to his nice products. During the time we've been there, I spotted few boxes of tubes which he uses in his DHT based preamps (SC12s, SC1) which instantly triggered my and Norms curiosity and seeing the tube spec, seed within me was planted and already started to grow. is
This particular tube has 5V heater with 0.25A and I've checked during the same day with Yoda if it can be used in Lampi and got his blessing to use 300b setting for Pacific/GG2.
Now finally let me name the tube I talk about - it is tube which started its life sort of century ago with the designation UX112A and later been named just 112A or 12A and having different shapes from globe to coke bottle.
More nice details you can find in the description from Thomas Mayer where it was also named a tube of the month back in 2017: http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2017/03/tube-of-month-ux112a.html.
With getting the approval from Yoda, I started to chase the tubes and as always eBay proved to be a nice destination and kind of immediately I got myself Cunningham RCA Globe UX112A version from early 20s of the last century (what a nice feeling to use 100 years old tube).
Comparing to previous times, this time I also wanted to check how the tube performs with several friends simultaneously to have several data points and opinions available before we write the findings. What was important to me is that we have a same base ie DAC and all three of us have Pacific SE with of course different rest of the systems, so overall it is a nice starting point.
With this said, I want to thank Ben from Singapore who is an often visitor of these pages but does not post a lot- if at all (Ben pls do it now :)) and David aka @dminches who we all know well. Guys thanks a lot for jumping on the boat on my crazy hint :)
OK, to cut the crap - let me write my personal view on the tube.
Physically tube is a midget comparing to RD27 and even Elrog 300b but still looking very sturdy and well done. I would say that gain is higher vs 300b for 5-10%, maybe a tad more, but nothing close to RD/PX25/242. I didn't notice any microphonics and it plays dead silent (globe version i have). Now very interesting part is and goes hand in hand with old saying that poison is usually kept in small bottles and this is the case with this tube. It performs amazing by any means possible. Yes, its not the speed or details champion (and i'm comparing with RD27, PX25/242/ad1 which are for me monster tubes in Pac/GG2) and btw its not far from them in this regard but the entire package it gives its totally overwhelming and seductive and here i talk about staging, tone color, rendering of voices and one thing which for me kind of stands out is decay as with this tube it seems that tones last forever - just amazing. I have to mention I used ACME 274b rectifier during my listening tests and for example Ben much more preferred the pairing with RK 5u4g then ACME, while David I believe used different options.
I hope/I'm sure David and Ben will add up here and give their view on things, but for me this is one of the best tubes so far and a definitive must have in collection (ordered a second pair already but coke bottle shape :)).
You want to hear best of the best things - if you score them (not to many out there) they are DIRT cheap - less then proper pentodes and I still can't wrap my head around why they are priced as they are (hope it stays like this).
Few pictures for illustration, and as always, happy rolling guys!

Cheers;
G
View attachment 69258 View attachment 69259 View attachment 69260 View attachment 69261 View attachment 69262
A big thank you to Goran the tube guru, for guiding me into the world of tube rolling fun. I was't really keen into tube rolling with my ARC Ref 3, until I have the Lampi, the cabriolet like design allow quick change of tubes, to alter the sound signatures in accordance to my mood. It is more fun than playing with cables and footers to be honest.
Long story short, the guru txt me one day about the 112A, gave me the lead on a pair posted on ebay. Priced at a bottle of whisky so what the hack within a week the pair is sitting on my lampi burning in the Yoda way. The first 24 hours or so wasn't impressive, I was thinking this pair might ended up being my burn-in tube for cables or whatever, but the third day onward it really shines, it turn out to be a keeper and what's left is to find a good recti to pair with.
The 112A has delicate mid and highs, not as fast as PX25, but very musical, refine and fatigue-free. it is quiet with better staging than the rest. Replaced the Acme274B with RK 5U4G yield better mid and lower bass, I really like it.
Last night I pull the RK and plug in the GZ480, bass went deeper with no trade off in vocal and highs, well balanced tonality. really love this little monster, too bad supply is scarce and guru himself quickly snap up the second pair !
 
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Golum

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2018
871
896
110
Lausanne, CH
Nice find Goran. If 5v, .25amp tubes will work could 01a (201a, 301a) variations work?
What I have seen ux201a has the same 5V, 0.25A rating so i don’t see why they could not be used ;)
 

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
2,399
716
358
Here's a good link for some rare triodes some of which will work in Lampizators. See bottom of page for heater ratings.

Nice if you want something no one else is using, which is always cool.

http://www3.osk.3web.ne.jp/~euvalve/gallery/re604.html

Telefunken RE614 and M.P. Penderson UH4 would be nice to try etc etc.

Langrex have a pair of Pendersons for sale.
 

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
2,399
716
358
Translated


Various equivalent pipes of RE604, etc.
 

Two versions of the RE604 (TELEFUNKEN) and KL71403 (KLANGFILM)
 From the left, TELEFUNKEN's RE604 old pipe, new pipe and KLANG FILM's KL71403 old pipe and new pipe.
 The leftmost RE604 old tube is a product from the earliest days (late 1920s) and features a rounded plate. Filament uses a method of reciprocating a fine wire many times like the 2A3 old single plate tube in the United States. Even with the same old eggplant tube, the later one has a square plate, and the internal structure also changes to something similar to the company's AD1.
 Next is the new RE604 tube, which has an ST shape that is typical of TELEFUNKEN. It may be difficult to see in the photo, but even with the same ST tube, there are two types of filaments (M type) and three types.In this photo, the TELEFUNKEN product is shown as an example of the latter, and the KLANGFILM product (far right) is shown as an example of the former.
 KLANGFILM's KL71403 , unlike WE, did not have a vacuum tube manufacturing department, so we used OEM products from other companies for our amplifiers. KL71403 is a tube equivalent to RE604 of TELEFUNKEN. At that time, the company was supplied with vacuum tubes not only by TELEFUNKEN but also by TEKADE and SIEMENS in Germany. As another example, KL70411 = Ba (SIEMENS), KL72406 = AD1 (TELEFUNKEN), KL76303 = RGN2504 (TELEFUNKEN), etc., all used 5-digit numbers starting with 7, but the ones that remain now, It seems that the number is small. 

 

Left to Right RE614 (TELEFUNKEN), YO104 (USSR), LK460 (VALVO) and LK4110 (VALVO)
 From the left, RE614 (TELEFUNKEN), YO104 (USSR), LK460 (VALVO), LK4110 (VALVO). The internal structure of
 RE614 , the base part and the glass shape are reminiscent of the vacuum tubes of PHILIPS of the same era, but they are made by TELEFUNKEN. In addition, it has a structure in which the plate is supported by four piano wires, which is rare at that time. It's a little mysterious ball.
 YO104 is the former Soviet version of RE604, which I think is not well known. It feels like the TELEFUNKEN thing is a little bigger in both plate and glass shape.(Products in the mid-1930s) At that time, the former Soviet Union also manufactured various types of vacuum tubes of the same standard in Western Europe and vacuum tubes of its own standard, and there are many things that you want to use once, but it is very difficult to obtain now. It seems like.
 The LK460 is a relatively well-known sphere in the VALVO version of RE604. The LK460 seems to have many similar structures to the PHILIPS D404 that will come out next. VALVO is an old German manufacturer that will be under the capital of PHILIPS in the Netherlands, but it seems that something has been related since this time.
 The LK4110 is also made by the same company, but it was a product when it was completely under the PHILIPS group.VALVO's unique ST shape is an impressive sphere, but from the internal structure it seems to follow the flow of French PHILIPS. 


Left to Right D404 (PHILIPS), K435 / 10 (TRIOTRON), E406 (PHILIPS), E406N (RT) and U4H (MP)
 From the left, D404 (PHILIPS), K435 / 10 (TRIOTRON), E406 (PHILIPS), E406N (RT), U4H (MP PEDERSEN).
 The D404 can be said to be the original Dutch PHILIPS version RE604. The plate is like the famous 45 plates in the United States multiplied by 1.5 vertically. A beautiful vacuum tube with the shape of a typical PHILIPS eggplant tube.
 The next K435 / 10 is from TRIOTRON in Austria, which has been manufacturing vacuum tubes since around 1926, but it seems that this ball is an OEM product from PHILIPS.
 The E406 is the next old E406N tube, which is hard to see in the photo, but contains a slightly larger nickel plate.In addition, it has a slightly unusual structure in which an inverted U-shaped glass rod is fixed to one side of the plate and a filament hanging bracket is fixed to the upper end.
 The E406N is a relatively famous sphere and is the successor to the E406, but the standard has been slightly changed as shown in the data column below. The internal resistance has increased a little, and the plate voltage can be up to 500V. The vacuum tubes in the photo are made by RT, a leading French manufacturer, but after joining PHILIPS around 1931, the company began manufacturing PHILIPS standard vacuum tubes in France.
 Last U4H Is a product of MP PEDERSEN of Denmark and has an interesting ST shape with a flat head.It should be noted that the company's U4H, which has been partially released recently, is quite different from the original in appearance and characteristics for some reason.



Left to Right 601 (F.MAZDA), DW302 (F.MAZDA), AC084 (MULLARD) and P4 (FERRANTI)
 From the left, 601 (F.MAZDA), DW302 (F.MAZDA), AC084 (MULLARD), P4 (FERRANTI).
 The 601 is made by MAZDA in France and can be said to be the French version RE604. It is a well-balanced and beautifully shaped eggplant tube with the shape of the above PHILIPS D404 plate spread out horizontally.
 DW302 is also a French MAZDA ball. It is a vacuum tube that is one size smaller in both standard and appearance, so it may not be strictly RE604 series, but it is introduced here for the time being. The area around the plate has the structure of a little while ago, and it is a vacuum tube that you can really feel after the handiwork of the craftsman.
 The other two are both made in the UK and AC084is a product of MULLARD. It seems that the manufacturing period was not so long because this ball was later replaced by the company's ACO44, which has a larger standard. If you look closely, you can see that a mesh wire mesh is attached to the inside of the nickel plate. Is it something that aims to improve emissions? I have only seen a few other cases like this.
 The last is P4 of FERRANTI . The company is also introduced in the PX4 series (separate section), but this P4 is the company's original product. Since it is a carbon suit, it does not look good inside, but it contains a plate of LP4 class size. (Product around 1930)


Two versions of the P460 (TUNGSRAM) and O15 / 400 (TUNGSRAM)
 From the left, TUNGSRAM's P460 old pipe and new pipe, as well as TUNGSRAM's O15 / 400 old pipe and new pipe.
 Originally, TUNGSRAM was a leading vacuum tube manufacturing company in Hungary, but around 1929, we established a company called British TUNGSRAM Radio Works in the United Kingdom and started producing vacuum tubes. This seems to have continued until the beginning of World War II.
 The P460 and O15 / 400 are also products of this era.
 The P460 old type tube is an old type method that fixes the plate support bracket at the bottom of the glass stem. In addition, the method of extending the piano wire vertically from one glass rod on the side of the plate and hanging the filament at the tip is a feature of the company's vacuum tubes of this era.
 In the next P460 , the plate support bracket is directly fixed with the glass stem, so you can see that it is a later product.
 The O15 / 400 old tube is not visible in the photo, but like the TELEFUNKEN RE604 old tube, it uses a method of reciprocating ultra-fine filaments many times, and the details are very similar to the RE604. For some reason, the ball in the photo is a US UX pin (2A3, etc.), and there is also a guide pin on the side of the socket. Of course, we also manufactured B4 type.
 The new O15 / 400 tube is from the ST tube era, and is a vacuum tube characterized by a very robust structure such as the adoption of double mica and an ST shape with a slightly flat head. (Products in the late 1930s)
TUBE DATA
ITEM Vf (V) If (A) Va (V) Vg (V) Ia (mA) Ri (ohm) Gm (mA / V u Ra (ohm) Po (W) Pa (W)
RE604 4 0.65 250 -45 40 1400 2.5 3.4 3500 1.7 10
RE614 4 1.0 250 -15 48 1900 4.0 7.6 --- 2.6 12
YO104 4 0.7 250 -35 40 1400 3.0 5.0 --- 1.5 12
LK460 4 0.65 250 -40 40 1300 2.7 3.5 3500 1.7 10
LK4110 = RE614
D404 = RE604
K435 / 10 = RE604
E406 4 1.0 250 -24 48 1500 4.0 6.0 2800 1.5 12
E406N 4 1.0 500 -68 24 2000 3.0 6.0 11500 5.3 12
U4H 4 0.9 400 -30 26 4000 2.0 8.0 6000 2.5 12
601 = RE604
DW302 4 0.3 250 -32 20 2600 2.0 5.0 5200 1.1 -
ACO84 4 1.0 400 -34 20 7300 1.1 8.0 --- --- -
P4 4 0.5 250 -21 30 --- 2.8 7.0 --- 1.0 -
P460 4 0.65 200 -30 50 1150 3.5 4.0 --- --- 12
O15 / 400 4 1.0 400 -38 40 1800 4.5 8.0 --- --- 15 Vamax 500V


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