I would probably like your Zu’s Marc , i have always been a glutton for punishment, in audio and in marriage
London Decca Jubilee revisited - combination with SME 3012R ?
- Thread starter UEM
- Start date
Dear Colleagues,
(See fotos below ) Doesn’t it look nice ? Even kind of "Vintage –Like" ??
Anyway it not only looks nice, it also plays beautiful.
Maybe I was plain lucky that the Jubilee and the JELCO Headshell just match the tonearm & tonearm base on my Thorens TD 520.
I have to confess that I’m not really in a position to give any reasonable sonic assessment, since I don’t have a reference:
As suggested by other users, I also used a piece of HS damping mat.
My SME 3012R has a modified bearing of bronze material, not the original plastic. Further contributing to the good handling of the Jubilee could be the tonearm board of the TD520, which is of a special wood (the actual tonearm base is of the original SME metal type)
My very early and provisional summary:
So far I can only state, the Jubilee fulfills, or even exceeds, my expectations.
I did NOT expect the Jubilee to be “THE Top Notch High-End” cartridge. The Jubilee nevertheless has this magic quality of drawing the listener right into the music, without distractions.
Regards
Urs
(See fotos below ) Doesn’t it look nice ? Even kind of "Vintage –Like" ??
Anyway it not only looks nice, it also plays beautiful.
Maybe I was plain lucky that the Jubilee and the JELCO Headshell just match the tonearm & tonearm base on my Thorens TD 520.
I have to confess that I’m not really in a position to give any reasonable sonic assessment, since I don’t have a reference:
- I’ve not yet heard a Decca or especially a Jubilee in my system.
- All my other cartridges, such as Ortofon SPU, KOETSU “platinum” cells, are much more expensive (by a factor of two or even four times) hence any comparison could hardly be called “fair”.
- The Jubilee is fresh out of the box and I haven’t done any fine tuning whatsoever, except the adjustment of azimuth and VTA with a spirit level.
- Some critical aspects that were occasionally mentioned, I cannot support: No hum, no unusual surface noise, etc.
As suggested by other users, I also used a piece of HS damping mat.
My SME 3012R has a modified bearing of bronze material, not the original plastic. Further contributing to the good handling of the Jubilee could be the tonearm board of the TD520, which is of a special wood (the actual tonearm base is of the original SME metal type)
My very early and provisional summary:
So far I can only state, the Jubilee fulfills, or even exceeds, my expectations.
I did NOT expect the Jubilee to be “THE Top Notch High-End” cartridge. The Jubilee nevertheless has this magic quality of drawing the listener right into the music, without distractions.
Regards
Urs
Attachments
Last edited:
„I smelled DECCA Blood“….
and I’m already thinking of up-grading to a DECCA REFERENCE cartridge.
WHO can give me some impressions of how the Reference compares to the Jubilee ?
Not only in terms of sound quality – which I assume would be improved– but also concerning the handling, such as frequently mentioned problems with Tonearm / Headshell compatibility, etc.
Electrically both cartridges should be more or less similar, as I understand.
Thanks again for your help and / or “warnings”
&
regards
Urs
and I’m already thinking of up-grading to a DECCA REFERENCE cartridge.
WHO can give me some impressions of how the Reference compares to the Jubilee ?
Not only in terms of sound quality – which I assume would be improved
– but also concerning the handling, such as frequently mentioned problems with Tonearm / Headshell compatibility, etc.Electrically both cartridges should be more or less similar, as I understand.
Thanks again for your help and / or “warnings”
&
regards
Urs
„I smelled DECCA Blood“….
and I’m already thinking of up-grading to a DECCA REFERENCE cartridge.
WHO can give me some impressions of how the Reference compares to the Jubilee ?
Not only in terms of sound quality – which I assume would be improved
Electrically both cartridges should be more or less similar, as I understand.
Thanks again for your help and / or “warnings”
&
regards
Urs
Hi Urs,
Did you try a nos Decca Blue yet at all?
Also worth trying is an old Decca C4E or even better an SC4E. I have the former and really like it, great tone and fantastic dynamics on my FR64fx. If you find one John Wright, who makes the London Jubilee and London Reference can check it and service it for you - they are prone to picking up debris as they run so close to the vinyl.
David Whistance
David Whistance
Bill & David,
Thanks for your interesting suggestions.
Actually, I'm not so much into "Vintage" sound - even vintage DECCA is likely to have a very different musical presentation as, say a vintage SPU.
Somewhere in the “NET “ I did find a "commercial comparison" of Jubilee vs Reference - but I do prefer "real users" to give me their feedback !
Regards
Urs
Thanks for your interesting suggestions.
Actually, I'm not so much into "Vintage" sound - even vintage DECCA is likely to have a very different musical presentation as, say a vintage SPU.
Somewhere in the “NET “ I did find a "commercial comparison" of Jubilee vs Reference - but I do prefer "real users" to give me their feedback !
Regards
Urs
Urs,
I wouldn't say the C4E has a "vintage" sound at all. The internals are essentially the same as all the other Decca's, the difference is that the body, which is a kind of resin, damps the cartridge much better than the later sheet metal cartridges.
The Jubilee and Reference have more solid metal bodies so are also much better damped than the other metal bodied Decca's. I'm not sure that either of them is better than the C4E just different due to the different body materials.
I should probably say my C4E now has a line contact stylus fitted by John Wright, he recommends them when retipping.
David
I wouldn't say the C4E has a "vintage" sound at all. The internals are essentially the same as all the other Decca's, the difference is that the body, which is a kind of resin, damps the cartridge much better than the later sheet metal cartridges.
The Jubilee and Reference have more solid metal bodies so are also much better damped than the other metal bodied Decca's. I'm not sure that either of them is better than the C4E just different due to the different body materials.
I should probably say my C4E now has a line contact stylus fitted by John Wright, he recommends them when retipping.
David
The Decca Blue I referred to is also not a vintage sound. It can be ferociously dynamic and fast but nothing remotely like a SPU.
You can rehouse these carts in wood bodies if you really want but I haven’t bothered.
I’m either very courageous - or utterly crazy ? – Or probably both:
I just ordered a Decca Reference !
(My dealer made me an offer, I couldn’t resist…)
Urs
(I'll report back later)
I just ordered a Decca Reference !
(My dealer made me an offer, I couldn’t resist…)
Urs
(I'll report back later)
"The world belongs to the brave"
Here a first impression: The newly arrived REFERENCE plays „cold out of the box” just fine.
Luckily, my concern about any additional finicky behavior (compared to the Jubilee) was not justified.
The Reference presents a very strong, but tight bass, exactly as I like it. On my favorite “test-track" , Moonlight-Serenade by Ray Brown and Laurindo Almeida, the double bass comes strong and well defined, and the guitar sings just beautifully.
https://www.discogs.com/de/Ray-Brown-Laurindo-Almeida-Moonlight-Serenade/release/3069419
Also on the Italian Concerto with Cembalo / Harpsichord “Concerto Nach Italienischem Gusto - Martha Schuster”, the harpsichord plays clear, with just the correct “deep” support .
However I do admit, the harpsichord may NOT be the ideal instrument for the Reference: Here both my SPU Century and the KOETSU Platinum cells have this hard to explain “sweetness”, which is marginally lacking by the DECCA. ( It’s an unfair comparison still, as these cartridges are in a much different price range)
https://www.musik-sammler.de/release/concerto-nach-italienischem-gusto-martha-schuster-lp-666696
Nevertheless: the “DECCA punch” – or as a “NAIMie” I’d call it PRAT - is intriguing, and my up-grade to the Reference was well worthwhile.
I’m confident, that after some more playing time, some aspects may even improve .
Especially I have not yet listened to what I guess is the ideal playing-ground for a DECCA: Jazz, Brass and such “groovy” kind of music.
Regards
Urs
Here a first impression: The newly arrived REFERENCE plays „cold out of the box” just fine.
Luckily, my concern about any additional finicky behavior (compared to the Jubilee) was not justified.
The Reference presents a very strong, but tight bass, exactly as I like it. On my favorite “test-track" , Moonlight-Serenade by Ray Brown and Laurindo Almeida, the double bass comes strong and well defined, and the guitar sings just beautifully.
https://www.discogs.com/de/Ray-Brown-Laurindo-Almeida-Moonlight-Serenade/release/3069419
Also on the Italian Concerto with Cembalo / Harpsichord “Concerto Nach Italienischem Gusto - Martha Schuster”, the harpsichord plays clear, with just the correct “deep” support .
However I do admit, the harpsichord may NOT be the ideal instrument for the Reference: Here both my SPU Century and the KOETSU Platinum cells have this hard to explain “sweetness”, which is marginally lacking by the DECCA. ( It’s an unfair comparison still, as these cartridges are in a much different price range)
https://www.musik-sammler.de/release/concerto-nach-italienischem-gusto-martha-schuster-lp-666696
Nevertheless: the “DECCA punch” – or as a “NAIMie” I’d call it PRAT - is intriguing, and my up-grade to the Reference was well worthwhile.
I’m confident, that after some more playing time, some aspects may even improve .
Especially I have not yet listened to what I guess is the ideal playing-ground for a DECCA: Jazz, Brass and such “groovy” kind of music.
Regards
Urs
Last edited:
First a clarification. A comparison between a Koetsu Onyx and the London Decca Reference is absolutely unfair - they are in a very different price range.
Well, after some further highlights with the Reference and “Jazzy type” music, a moment of frustration followed (as a few other users reportedly experienced as well)
One record that plays nearly flawless with my ONYX, the Reference miss tracked badly and I can’t find an explanation. The ONYX just plays a few mild pops & crackles – but the Reference keeps sticking for a few revolutions.
Otherwise: The SOUND of the Reference is so intriguing and captivating, I’ll exonerate this single incident...
Regards
Urs
PS: I may try a few adjustments such as changing VTA, or a different Headshell.
BUT: The Decca Jubilee also miss-tracks at the same point; there must be something with this record, or that special part, which the Decca Type cartridges simply do not like at all….
Well, after some further highlights with the Reference and “Jazzy type” music, a moment of frustration followed (as a few other users reportedly experienced as well)
One record that plays nearly flawless with my ONYX, the Reference miss tracked badly and I can’t find an explanation. The ONYX just plays a few mild pops & crackles – but the Reference keeps sticking for a few revolutions.
Otherwise: The SOUND of the Reference is so intriguing and captivating, I’ll exonerate this single incident...
Regards
Urs
PS: I may try a few adjustments such as changing VTA, or a different Headshell.
BUT: The Decca Jubilee also miss-tracks at the same point; there must be something with this record, or that special part, which the Decca Type cartridges simply do not like at all….
Last edited:
I'm reviving this older thread with an update for the “Reference” friends.
Sound wise I have little to add: For Jazz and similar music I’m still very happy with the Reference.
Handling I improved with the use of the Arché Headshell
https://acousticalsystems.audio/product/arche-headshell/
This is one of the few headshells, which allows VTA and other adjustment, without changing settings on the tonearm.
As SME users may well know: Changing of tonearm height in the older series is possible of course. But I put this action in the domain of “PITA”, or pain in the neck…
(The Reference is the one Cartridge with the biggest difference in dimension to my other models)
Regards
Urs
PS: Thorens TD520, SME 3012R, Phono AMR PH-77 (SUT: for MC's Airtight ATH-2)
Urs
Sound wise I have little to add: For Jazz and similar music I’m still very happy with the Reference.
Handling I improved with the use of the Arché Headshell
https://acousticalsystems.audio/product/arche-headshell/
This is one of the few headshells, which allows VTA and other adjustment, without changing settings on the tonearm.
As SME users may well know: Changing of tonearm height in the older series is possible of course. But I put this action in the domain of “PITA”, or pain in the neck…
(The Reference is the one Cartridge with the biggest difference in dimension to my other models)
Regards
Urs
PS: Thorens TD520, SME 3012R, Phono AMR PH-77 (SUT: for MC's Airtight ATH-2)
Urs
Last edited:
@UEM I had not seen this thread before, so I'm glad you updated it. Like you, I started with a Jubilee, and liked it so much I bought a Reference two weeks later. That was in 2011, and I still regard it as my best cartridge. I managed to get it serviced by John Wright just before he retired, so I'm using it sparingly until londondecca.com is fully functional. You may have seen that I started a thread about the fact that the new owner is planning to manufacture both the Reference and a new version of it, probably available in August.
I have used the Deccas on three SME arms, but all more modern than the 3012 (an M10, IV and V). I have not had any of the classic issues that Deccas are infamous for having: hum and mistracking just have not happened. I have used it with and without damping on the Series V, and I can't really say I can hear a difference.
Both the Jubilee and the Reference are very lively—no other cartridge quite makes my feet tap the way they do! When I was worried that future service would be unavailable (before John announced he had a buyer), I did buy three other moving iron cartridges, though obviously none using the same unusual design. Of those three (Nagaoka MP-500, Soundsmith Sussurro MkII, Grado Statement3) the cheapest one—the MP-500—sounded closest to the Deccas, which surprised me.
For your information, there is a very long and educational thread here all about various Decca cartridges. Lots of reading for you!
I have used the Deccas on three SME arms, but all more modern than the 3012 (an M10, IV and V). I have not had any of the classic issues that Deccas are infamous for having: hum and mistracking just have not happened. I have used it with and without damping on the Series V, and I can't really say I can hear a difference.
Both the Jubilee and the Reference are very lively—no other cartridge quite makes my feet tap the way they do! When I was worried that future service would be unavailable (before John announced he had a buyer), I did buy three other moving iron cartridges, though obviously none using the same unusual design. Of those three (Nagaoka MP-500, Soundsmith Sussurro MkII, Grado Statement3) the cheapest one—the MP-500—sounded closest to the Deccas, which surprised me.
For your information, there is a very long and educational thread here all about various Decca cartridges. Lots of reading for you!
Dogberry,
Thanks for your interesting comments !
I’m also not using my Reference permanently; as I indicated earlier, for classical music and operatic voices I admit I prefer either my Koetsu or the SPU. Not that the Reference would sound “wrong”, quite the opposite !! – But for my taste those two others have this extra “euphonic shine” .
Re: “LENCO Heaven” – I used to follow the DECCA thread as well.
As my Reference is less than 4 years old, I trust I should not need any service soon, even though it appears this problem should be solved by now.
Regards
Urs
Thanks for your interesting comments !
I’m also not using my Reference permanently; as I indicated earlier, for classical music and operatic voices I admit I prefer either my Koetsu or the SPU. Not that the Reference would sound “wrong”, quite the opposite !! – But for my taste those two others have this extra “euphonic shine” .
Re: “LENCO Heaven” – I used to follow the DECCA thread as well.
As my Reference is less than 4 years old, I trust I should not need any service soon, even though it appears this problem should be solved by now.
Regards
Urs