"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

So I looked up the JBL M9500 speakers and they appear to be circa 1994. Why not include modern technology like tighter speaker cabinets, better drivers, and better capacitors? Seems maybe that would be the best of both worlds.

I have an open mind about different approaches sounding better but we should not deny that technology marches forward and we are getting more clarity these days.

But is it just about clarity?

I think of good audio being a bit like food - there are many great recipies that can be equally satisfying, and having too much of a favourite ingredient can upset the balance.

Great audio is getting the balance right to get clarity along with tone, timber, timing and dynamics.

Wilson recently introduced an Alnico midrange driver that is said to have brought greater life and realism. They went back to a superior soft dome tweeter some years prior. These are old technologies.

The latest trend is Field Coil technology, with some proponents saying it is a game changer.

You can argue that we are moving forward. but in some ways, we are just going in circles :).
 
So I looked up the JBL M9500 speakers and they appear to be circa 1994. Why not include modern technology like tighter speaker cabinets, better drivers, and better capacitors? Seems maybe that would be the best of both worlds.

I see your point. The best of any world for me is less about parts than about what sounds right. I'm not knocking today's builds. In twenty years today's parts will be in the past but these speakers will still sound good to me.

It all starts with the bass. The M9500 is probably the last of their big studio monitors drivable with low wattage SET amplifiers. Fairly limited production so there are not a lot of them and they not uber expensive. I don't want to change their sound. The only change I'd make is to bi-amp them with another pair of Lamm ML2.2s.

 
The latest trend is Field Coil technology, with some proponents saying it is a game changer.

And field-coil speaker technology is not new. From the 1920s through roughly the end of WWII many early theater speakers and jukeboxes used field-coil drivers until the adoption of permanent magnets with Alnico, and, later on, the use of rare earth materials such as neodymium.

Permanent magnets eventually replaced field-coil drivers, but not because permanent magnets offer higher performance. A main reason for the changeover was cost: a) permanent magnets are relatively lower in cost, b) field-coil magnets are more expensive to manufacture, and c) field-coil speakers require a separate power supply which adds additional cost and complexity. Field coil speakers with electromagnets allow dynamically changing some of the speaker's Thiele/Small (t/s) parameters. What was old is new again.

You can argue that we are moving forward. but in some ways, we are just going in circles :).
 
Yes. That video has an SME 3012-R with an Aidas Mammoth Gold cartridge (recently reviewed) on the Monaco. Though you cannot see it, the carpet is further back from the speakers by 11-inches and I removed the SRA base from under the TT.

What was the previous cart then?
 
Fuuga on the 4Point.

Sounds like there was some gain issue with that one. This Sibelius has better energy and drive than your previous videos and quieter parts are not getting lost out on the video.
 
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But is it just about clarity?

I think of good audio being a bit like food - there are many great recipies that can be equally satisfying, and having too much of a favourite ingredient can upset the balance.

Great audio is getting the balance right to get clarity along with tone, timber, timing and dynamics.

Wilson recently introduced an Alnico midrange driver that is said to have brought greater life and realism. They went back to a superior soft dome tweeter some years prior. These are old technologies.

The latest trend is Field Coil technology, with some proponents saying it is a game changer.

You can argue that we are moving forward. but in some ways, we are just going in circles :).

No, it’s not just about clarity. I just quickly picked that as one of several that came to mind. I had been listening to some guitar recordings I did and the Vs did a remarkable job of transporting me back to the venue. Clarity was one aspect.

So these Wilson examples are in my Alexia Vs. The tweeter has new technology behind the tweeter for the backwave. The midrange driver has new technology as well. I am told both measure better. So it seems these examples are improvements on existing technology.

Maybe your circles are a wheel that is moving forward. :)
 
No, it’s not just about clarity. I just quickly picked that as one of several that came to mind. I had been listening to some guitar recordings I did and the Vs did a remarkable job of transporting me back to the venue. Clarity was one aspect.

So these Wilson examples are in my Alexia Vs. The tweeter has new technology behind the tweeter for the backwave. The midrange driver has new technology as well. I am told both measure better. So it seems these examples are improvements on existing technology.

Maybe your circles are a wheel that is moving forward. :)

I am glad that you like your Wilsons!

Some might argue that modern technologies like diamond tweeters are a big advancement, yet some people don't like the sound of them and prefer older soft dome technology. Likewise a lot of people prefer the sound of paper cones for mid and bass due to their balance of stiffness and damping.

There is a lot to be said for large cones for shifting air and high efficiency, also old concepts.

Wheels can move both forwards and backwards. :)
 
So I looked up the JBL M9500 speakers and they appear to be circa 1994. Why not include modern technology like tighter speaker cabinets, better drivers, and better capacitors? Seems maybe that would be the best of both worlds.

I have an open mind about different approaches sounding better but we should not deny that technology marches forward and we are getting more clarity these days.
“Modern” and “Vintage” are somewhat in the eye of the beholder. In my book, 1994 is modern! For some context, my woofers were made in 1947. They are 15” Jensens with paper cones and Alnico 3 magnets. My previous Jensens were 10-15 years younger and sported “modern” Alnico 5 magnets. The older woofers sound better despite a lower sensitivity (96 vs 99 db).

In each case I selected the woofers based on sound quality, not because of their age.
 
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When reviewers keep on blabbering about their favorite gear and brands on every occasion, i question their partiality and motive. Give it a rest with all the AN praise, you have been drinking the cool aid, we get it ! :rolleyes:

With me, you know where I stand and my preferences - and I have been consistent for over 20 years in the things I like - and when they change - I have stated those changes.

I am not going to be one of those reviewers or individuals who pretends to have no bias - pretends to like a whole pile of stuff so that I can make a name for myself reviewing something just for the sake of reviewing and to say "ABC" is the greatest amplifier or speaker I ever heard - until the next issue when XYZ is now the greatest thing I ever heard - rinse/repeat.

I am a SET/HE speaker fan and AN is responsible for that entry point. However, since that eye-opening experience - I have liked/owned other SET/HE speakers as much - more in larger rooms.

Unfortunately, I simply do not have the space to review the large audiophile systems as I live in Hong Kong - this limits what I can bring in in terms of speakers. I would be happy to recommend Acapella speakers for example but outside of this forum where most of the posters are mega-millionaires) there are not too many people on forums asking for $80,000 to $850,000+ speakers.

At all kinds of budgets on audio forums I have recommended numerous brands: Sugden, Line Magnetic, Heed Audio, Tannoy, Melody Valve Audio, Accuphase, Luxman, Paradigm, Wyred4Sound, Shindo, Acapella Audio Arts, Rogers, Marguiles, Quad, Martin Logan, Legacy Audio, SoundKaos, Pureaudio Project, Pureaudio One, Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Marantz, Yamaha, Analog Domain, Synthesis tube amps, Meze audio, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio Technica, Roksan, Trenner & Freidl, Sound Master International tube amps, Acoustic Zen, Triode Labs, Coincident Technologies, Grant Fidelity, Opera Consonance, Shengya, Wharfedale, off the top of my head..

Most stuff is pretty darn good these days - What speaks to the individual is mostly up to the individual. That certain "something-something" magic sauce that does it for me may not to someone else. I sort of look at it like BBQ sauce on baby back ribs - most BBQ sauce is good enough but some just wow you more.

I could easily put together a very fine all-day enjoyable system from the above list of gear and no doubt many others.
 
And field-coil speaker technology is not new. From the 1920s through roughly the end of WWII many early theater speakers and jukeboxes used field-coil drivers until the adoption of permanent magnets with Alnico, and, later on, the use of rare earth materials such as neodymium.

Permanent magnets eventually replaced field-coil drivers, but not because permanent magnets offer higher performance. A main reason for the changeover was cost: a) permanent magnets are relatively lower in cost, b) field-coil magnets are more expensive to manufacture, and c) field-coil speakers require a separate power supply which adds additional cost and complexity. Field coil speakers with electromagnets allow dynamically changing some of the speaker's Thiele/Small (t/s) parameters. What was old is new again.

That is true - new doesn't necessarily equate to better - sometimes - oftentimes - new is created to sell something cheaper and to maximize profits.

I am looking forward to auditioning the AN E Field Coils that they have spent several years on - mainly the external power supply and the physical drivers which are much bigger and heftier.


I have heard most of the top-end gear and it always surprises me when SET amps - old speakers usually sound much better than modern gear touting the technology but often (almost always) sounds sterile to me. It may be better hi-fi but it isn't better musically IME. Albeit that's always subjective.

I recently auditioned some old Hartsfield speakers on some SET amps and I scratch my head as to the so-called improvements when this sort of thing is toe-tapping and involving in a way I never get from Wilson or Magico with all the "technology." Granted those Hartsfield speakers ain't cheap - they were in that new Lexus ES 350 range or so I believe.
 
Late reply...Just saw this thread. My 2 cents

1) I have been an audiophile for 45 years starting when I was a very poor high school that saved for almost a year to buy a used CJ PV2 preamp, a pair of modded Dynacos MKIIs and a pair of Maggies MG 1.

2) If it weren't for the magazines, specifically TAS, I never would have become an audiophile. Growing up in a lower middle class neighborhood I certainly had no exposure to high quality gear.

3) If it weren't for a couple of dealers that educated me and gave me what would be called accommodation pricing I never could have built that first (and 2nd and 3rd systems). Specifically, James and Sandy at Audio Den in Stony Brook, NY and Dave Wasserman at Stereo Exchange. They spent a lot of time with me and answered what probably seemed like a lot of stupid questions.

4) Reviews are what they are, one man's (or woman's) opinion. There are a multitude of reasons why a review might not reflect the reality of the product (difference in taste, poor setup, poor system matching, a reviewer that may be compromised because he got said equipment on a "long-term loan", etc.) At the end of the day, it really doesn't make a difference why. I try to find multiple reviews of products I might be interested in and put more stock in insights from boards like WBF than I do in magazine or online reviews.

5) I am far from naive having worked on trading desks and for gambling businesses for the past 30 years, but find it very hard to believe that most reviewers shade their opinions based upon what a manufacturer can do for them. Do I think it ever happens? Sure, but I don't think it's widespread. I worked with dishonest guys on trading desks that got busted by the SEC but the vast majority of Wall Street guys play by the rules despite what much of the public thinks.

6) For most of us, this is a hobby, a way to enjoy music and screw around with high priced toys. Sometimes I buy a piece of equipment based upon a review and I end up not liking it. OK, I sell it, and generally lose money, but so be it. There are no absolutes. You might hate my system, I might not like yours. So what. Sometimes audiophiles make it like the fate of the free world rests on someone's opinion about a piece of gear. IMO, there are a lot more important things going on in the world to get worked up about.

Ian

p.s. This is the best board I have ever been on. My equipment and listening skills are exponentially better for having met people through this forum.

p.p.s I have not been paid for my endorsement of WBF. ;)
 
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Late reply...Just saw this thread. My 2 cents

1) I have been an audiophile for 45 years starting when I was a very poor high school that saved for almost a year to buy a used CJ PV2 preamp, a pair of modded Dynacos MKIIs and a pair of Maggies MG 1.

2) If it weren't for the magazines, specifically TAS, I never would have become an audiophile. Growing up in a lower middle class neighborhood I certainly had no exposure to high quality gear.

3) If it weren't for a couple of dealers that educated me and gave me what would be called accommodation pricing I never could have built that first (and 2nd and 3rd systems). Specifically, James and Sandy at Audio Den in Stony Brook, NY and Dave Wasserman at Stereo Exchange. They spent a lot of time with me and answered what probably seemed like a lot of stupid questions.

4) Reviews are what they are, one man's (or woman's) opinion. There are a multitude of reasons why a review might not reflect the reality of the product (difference in taste, poor setup, poor system matching, a reviewer that may be compromised because he got said equipment on a "long-term loan", etc.) At the end of the day, it really doesn't make a difference why. I try to find multiple reviews of products I might be interested in and put more stock in insights from boards like WBF than I do in magazine or online reviews.

5) I am far from naive having worked on trading desks and for gambling businesses for the past 30 years, but find it very hard to believe that most reviewers shade their opinions based upon what a manufacturer can do for them. Do I think it ever happens? Sure, but I don;t think it's widespread. I worked with dishonest guys on trading desks that got busted by the SEC but the vast majority of Wall Street guys play by the rules despite what much of the public thinks.

6) For most of us, this is a hobby, a way to enjoy music and screw around with high priced toys. Sometimes I buy a piece of equipment based upon a review and I end up not liking it. OK, I sell it, and generally lose money, but so be it. There are no absolutes. You might hate my system, I might not like yours. So what. Sometimes audiophiles make it like the fate of the free world rests on someone's opinion about a piece of gear. IMO, there are a lot more important things going on in the world to get worked up about.

Ian

p.s. This is the best board I have ever been on. My equipment and listening skills are exponentially better for having met people through this forum.

p.p.s I have not been paid for my endorsement of WBF. ;)

Nice post.
 
In the March 2023 issue of The Absolute Sound Robert Harley, Editor-in-Chief, defends broadly and unashamedly the arrangement of long-term loans of high-end components by manufacturers to reviewers.


1) Robert writes that "[l]ong-term equipment loans are essential to writing the most accurate and insightful reviews." If a well-known and highly-respected reviewer has been purchasing his own equipment for his reference system for decades does that mean he has not been writing the most “accurate and insightful reviews"? How would a respected reviewer's reviews have been better if he had never purchased his loudspeakers or his turntable or his amplifiers? Are the reviews of a self-financing reviewer tainted in some way because he/she pays for his/her own components?

Robert justifies the practice of long term loans by asserting: "Inserting a new product into a highly transparent system whose characteristics are known intimately by the reviewer is the gold standard for writing an accurate and insightful review. Anything less is a compromise. . . . Without long-term loans, reviewers must either evaluate expensive products in systems they can afford (i.e., that are not up to the sonic standard of the product under review) or change the entire playback system with each new evaluation." Robert concludes: "This arrangement also benefits readers by identifying those products that are truly exceptional."

I feel these arguments both prove too little (how do any of these assertions actually justify a potential or an actual conflict of interest, and the specter of bias in favor of the loaning manufacturer?) and prove too much (so most reference systems owned and paid for by the reviewers themselves are a "compromise"?). How does the long term loan arrangement "identif[y] those products that are truly exceptional?" Doesn't the arrangement simply identify which companies are willing to loan/give components to reviewers in return for marketing bragging rights and for Associated Components list value?


2) I fully appreciate 1) the self-selecting process of focusing on components a reviewer strongly suspects in advance he/she is going to like, and 2) the sensible editorial strategy of assigning a review component to a reviewer with prior experience with an earlier version of the same product, or at least some prior experience with the manufacturer. Yet I find it difficult to believe that even with these legitimate drivers of the component-to-reviewer assignment process every component is worthy of the highest praise.

Jonathan Valin has long term loans from, I believe, among other manufacturers, Acoustic Signature, JL Audio, Magico,* MBL and Soulution. When was the last time you read a negative review by Jonathan of a product sent to him for evaluation by one of these companies? (I readily concede this particular argument is not at all dispositive, because it is very possible that Jonathan has genuinely loved every single component he has ever reviewed from each of these companies. My point of this particular argument is that the long-term loan arrangement raises the specter of bias.)


3) I believe that in any other industry, and according to any regulatory body responsible for regulating a particular industry, the practice of long-term loans would be described in one word: "bribe." Robert exculpates the reviewer receiving the loan from impropriety by explaining: "The assumption is that the reviewer is beholden to the manufacturer, when it is the manufacturer who benefits more than the reviewer from the loan."

How is this a defense to an apparent or to an actual conflict of interest? How does the fact that the manufacturer receives a bigger benefit from the loan than does the receiving reviewer absolve the reviewer's apparent or actual conflict of interest? Isn't this like the beneficiary tippee of an insider trading tip defending himself from liability for his ill-gotten gain because the tipper from whom he received the tip made more money than he did?


4) Robert takes a puzzling swipe at reviewers buying review components at discounted accommodation pricing: ". . . I'm not as clear about how buying such a piece of equipment at a huge discount wouldn't make a reviewer feel even more "beholden" -- and personally invested in that product." I think that a reviewer who receives an accommodation discount of, let's say, forty percent, and pays sixty percent of his or her hard-earned money for a component, is less beholden to a manufacturer than is a reviewer who receives that component for free. Robert does not explain why a reviewer who receives a 40% discount is more beholden to a manufacturer than is a reviewer who receives a 100% discount.

Isn't a reviewer less beholden to a manufacture after a completed purchase transaction than he or she is from an ongoing loan which the manufacturer can withdraw at any time as punishment for a critical review? Which tells you more about how much a reviewer liked a particular $200,000 component: A) paying $120,000 to have it and use it, or B) paying nothing to have it and use it?


5) Robert emphasizes that The Absolute Sound "adheres to the ironclad rule that the review sample must eventually be returned to the manufacturer. Although the reviewer may use a product for several years, it belongs to the manufacturer." For how many years has Jonathan Valin had possession of his Lloyd Walker turntable (assuming the Proscenium possession started out as a long-term loan)?

If we were in tax court I believe that a transaction denominated by the participants as a "loan" which continues for as long as a "borrower" wishes likely would be re-characterized either as a sale or as a gift. Under The Absolute Sound's "rule" what does "eventually" mean in practice? With long-term component loan arrangements in this industry does "eventually" mean upon the retirement or the death of the reviewer? I would characterize a long-term component loan as a gift, rather than as a loan.


6) Section 4 of the Statement of Principles of the Association of International Audiophile Publications provides: Reviewers and their publications will not be allowed to negotiate to keep review samples as "compensation" for their reviews. In my opinion a long-term loan which continues for as long as the receiving reviewer wishes is substantially the same -- a distinction without a difference -- as a "keep." This Statement of Principles was a modest attempt at a code of ethics for the high-end audio industry. Conspicuously, The Absolute Sound has chosen not to sign onto this industry self-regulatory effort.


7) I will leave you with this simple question: if a reviewer wants to continue to retain and use a piece of equipment loaned to him by a manufacturer that is worth tens of thousands of dollars, or hundreds of thousands of dollars, do you think the reviewer will be more likely to report favorably on, or to be less critical of, a new component from that manufacturer sent to that reviewer for evaluation?


*I would argue that a long-term loan arrangement is in operation even if a manufacturer replaces the loaned component with a new model from time to time.





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Long term review equipment is a gift to the reviewer, to the magazine, and to the equipment company. The magazine gives accolades to the equipment manufacturer everytime they mention it’s their reference gear or it’s part of the gear they used to review a product.

IMO, every review from any audio magazine is worthless. For 1, when have you seen a negative review? Never!
When have you seen any reviewer in a mag compare 2 or 3 like products and have them rated 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Car mags do this $300,000 to $1M cars all the time.
Also, every review contains what the manufacturer wants them to say to introduce their gear and mod always, the reviewer gets so excited by a new acronym that means the same thing that has been going on for 10-20 years, but they think it’s new.
I get a couple of the audio mags to see what is coming out, but I trust some of the online reviewers and the smaller reviewers.
 
Long term review equipment is a gift to the reviewer, to the magazine, and to the equipment company. The magazine gives accolades to the equipment manufacturer everytime they mention it’s their reference gear or it’s part of the gear they used to review a product.

IMO, every review from any audio magazine is worthless. For 1, when have you seen a negative review? Never!
When have you seen any reviewer in a mag compare 2 or 3 like products and have them rated 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Car mags do this $300,000 to $1M cars all the time.
Also, every review contains what the manufacturer wants them to say to introduce their gear and mod always, the reviewer gets so excited by a new acronym that means the same thing that has been going on for 10-20 years, but they think it’s new.
I get a couple of the audio mags to see what is coming out, but I trust some of the online reviewers and the smaller reviewers.

Ultimately, the best reviewer is your own ears. So find a dealer that has the gear on your short list and hear them in your own system.

But how does one get the short list? Local dealer suggestions, friends, stuff you like at shows, and, yes, magazine reviewers.

In my opinion, reviewers do add value in informing you on new technology, impressive new components, and all done with experience of hearing lots of gear. I would argue that experience is quite valuable. Not just a quick listen in stores but living for months with both speakers and electronics. Visiting factories to see how stuff is made. Talking to designers and engineers to get a deeper understanding of what’s important in their mind.
 
In my opinion, reviewers do add value in informing you on new technology, impressive new components, and all done with experience of hearing lots of gear. I would argue that experience is quite valuable. Not just a quick listen in stores but living for months with both speakers and electronics. Visiting factories to see how stuff is made. Talking to designers and engineers to get a deeper understanding of what’s important in their mind.
I agree, but there seems to be a need for closer editing of the reviews. When an experienced writer says something like (paraphrasing): "It has been two years since I heard version 1 of these speakers, but from memory they sound like such and such compared to the latest version," we know that sentence should have been cut because it makes no sense and is misleading unless the reviewer lived with those v1 speakers for a very long time. They had not.

It is also misleading when the new component is elevated by enumerating very exaggerated negative traits of what came before it. For example, at the level of the equipment reviewed by The Absolute Sound, it is hard to believe that previous digital gear sounds flat, discontinuous or two-dimensional. Those qualities were left behind a long time ago.

Honest writers will say that everyone needs a good editor. The best editors apply a scalpel not a sword.
 
Personally I like the magazines when they have articles on a topic I'm interested in - I have no interest in streaming, I am interested in analogue - but I read them as entertainment not a source of definitive truth about anything. I still have magazines from 20 years ago and enjoy them.

When I was a child I enjoyed the Beano and Dandy comics (apologies to non English readers, I don't know what the equivalent USA child's comics would be) . You know what? I still enjoy them and still keep many of those annuals as very light entertainment. I often browse an old annual then immediately browse an old Absolute Sound or HiFi+ . I find the adventures of Dennis the Menace and the pretentious hifi ramblings of ******* equally amusing. I don't actually believe either tell me anything definitive :)

Apologies for the comparison. I think maybe my head is wired strangely...
 

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