Luxury Sedan Priced Speakers- they have fancy car paint, but do they sound better?

[Mike Lavigne]

If I am understanding this somewhat,

If there is a guy gently striking a hihatt and then a bass guitar starts in, then the hihatt sounds better all of a sudden?

Seems to me that is nothing to do with the bass reproduction but something happening in our heads.



Confussssed.

Tom

i introduced this issue to this thread in post #47. not sure where you got the idea about the bass guitar. i made this point relative to what one gets with a 'Luxury Car Priced Speakers', one should and can get a truely full range speaker, and that being able to properly do deep bass will yield dividends all up and down the frequency range, and that a speaker that can do linear deep bass will have better treble too. a speaker with limited low frequencies (only to 45hz-50hz) or a speaker which has less than linear bass, will not have as good high frequencies.

in essense; my point is that high frequencies are only 'completed musically' when a speaker system is full range and linear in the bass. and so spending dollars on expensive speakers to get great full range bass has merit one might not expect.

exerpt from Post #47......

here is the difference. getting the high frequencies truely correct is a curious thing, and it is a bit counter-intuative. back when i had the Von Schweikert VR9's i spent lots of time trying to get three tweeters (2 front facing, and one rear facing) to really sound right. each tweeter has a gain control. try as i might i could not get them to behave. i struggled mightily with it and was very frustrated. it was not until i got the bass properly adjusted that the high frequencies finally behaved.

i had the same experience again when i 'fixed' the bass in my room (and MM3 speakers) last year. the treble 'locked in' when the bass achieved linearity. it was one of those 'i'll be damned' realizations.

music has harmonics and overtones up and down the spectrom. highs don't get completely fleshed out unless a system can do deep bass and do it in a linear way. as you approach linear deep bass the treble attains a much more natural presence....and ease. completness. scale.

in both cases i describe the high frequencies were a bit ragged and edgy and i had been fighting them over an extended period of time. independant of those efforts i solved some bass linearity issues, and mysteriously my treble edgyness went away too and my top end was waay more smooth and natural.

then in post #68 i made this comment;

i specifically have a demo track with lots of triangle playing, Pachelbel/Canon in D, track 16 on the FIM demo disc 'This is K2HD sound!' it's also track 16 on the FIM SACD Audiophile Reference IV. i also have a test pressing Lp of the full album. it's an analog recording.

the triangles have this decay which is very well recorded and is very revealing of treble performance. and yes, absolutely. when my bass performance improves these triangles sound better.

Gary Koh then posted the graph on that recording.

as far as whether these perceptions are real or imagined, i can only say that in both cases they were an unexpected and surprising result.

 

[fas42]

in both cases i describe the high frequencies were a bit ragged and edgy and i had been fighting them over an extended period of time. independant of those efforts i solved some bass linearity issues, and mysteriously my treble edgyness went away too and my top end was waay more smooth and natural.t;

Gary Koh then posted the graph on that recording.

as far as whether these perceptions are real or imagined, i can only say that in both cases they were an unexpected and surprising result.

This still sounds to me a treble distortion issue. As mentioned by others, a trebly sound in real life does not sound more smooth when there is added bass content. My suspicion is that the bass linearity problem was indirectly adding some distortion into the sound, which you then reduced with adjustments.

As I mentioned earlier there was no observable, distinctly treble content in the posted waveform. I sure it was there but at a much lower level, you would need to filter out the midrange and below in the waveform editor, or zoom to see what actual treble was there ...

Frank

 

[JackD201]

My guess is that what people are responding to is the natural very low bass energy that is part of the background sound of virtually all environments, bass background noise if you will, ambient rumble. Microphones don't have any problem picking this up and so when this is added into into the mix by a high quality subwoofer this sounds and feels more natural. Thus, irrespective of anything else, the music comes across better with its presence ...

Frank

Exactly

 

[JackD201]

Me too, Tom. I don't thing anyone is trying to say it is anything other than something happening in their heads - perception. But I've never heard it.

Tim

I came about this observation when mixing Tim. It's easier to hear the cumulative effects when solo-ing individual tracks then finally building up the tracks. It really isn't all that obvious. I mean, the heavens aren't going to part or anything. Things just sound that little bit more "right" because they sound like they belong and not stick out or get washed out.

I'm with Mike in that if you're paying mid to high 5 figures or even 6 figures, you really should be getting real 20Hz capability. None of that -6dB at 20Hz stuff. Heck, good bass is what you pay for. Lower models can do the rest just as well at least with quasi-point source designs. Things are a bit different with linesources and concentric arrays.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

LOL... that could be dangerous!

Please let me clarify: I'm not suggesting that we be allowed to touch anything!

Tim

 

[tonmeister2008]

An interesting question is if Revel Salon 2's were priced at $100K, would they get more attention? I have to think they would. People look at the price tag and automatically assume it is in a tier lower.

I will sell you a pair of Revel Salon 2's for $100k - no problem. I will even break them in for you for no extra charge

 

[amirm]

I will sell you a pair of Revel Salon 2's for $100k - no problem. I will even break them in for you for no extra charge

Too late. Brother Pyle gave us way better deal.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I will sell you a pair of Revel Salon 2's for $100k - no problem. I will even break them in for you for no extra charge

Wallah! State of the art.

Tim

 

[egidius]

I guess we get to agree to disagree. That is not my experience. I don't know what big speakers you have listened to but even the "lowly" Dunlavy line (including the rather large VI's) have pinpoint imaging as good or better than anything I have ever heard.

Obvioulsy, YMMV.

Oh I don't know, I like Merlin, Quad, and other E'stats.. I do not take to big speakers easily. I suppose, thats me being varying miles?

Egidius