Magico A5?

[kparmer65]

Yet, here you are, your first post on WBF (and on others - same A5 critical post), criticizing a remarkable product you clearly don't understand (you can't just drop them on a carpet, in what looks like an alcove and expect them to work). It doesn't even feel like you are asking for help, which you clearly need if you wish to hear what these speakers can do.

My advice to you is to sell them. That is not the right product for you. The wait on an A5 now is very long. I know of at least two guys who would gladly take them out of your hand. You can buy a used 801 for around $6K and move on.

i Appreciate your comments and the advice here. I have moved them around to see how much effect it had. Funny that’s why the photo was without the spikes, easier to move. I have the spikes on now. As for the alcove as you put it. Lake homes in Northern Michigan are very hard to come by. Especially on a lake that is 2000 or more acres. I got lucky. I’m on a lake like that with 2.5 acres with a park like setting. The house is the house. So does that mean you can’t have a audio system? Yes to fanatics.
I was a Ford dealer for years and I would never dream of telling a customer that might be critical of say the F150 compared to whatever that the F150 is the absolute second coming and he or she is the problem.
As a dealer I understood that all situations are different, different people with different needs. Respect!

although in the end you may be correct. Please have the buyers message me.
$6k, $25k or whatever, to some everything is about money.
well for me it’s not.
I will tell my wife that her opinion here doesn’t matter.
As to my first post. I apologize for not posting in the past. I didn’t have a need. I chose to use this tool because of a need.
if my posters seemed negative, that’s because sometimes people get emotional about their passions.

Again my apologies if my need or passion offends.

 

[Bartolo]

Our A3's new out of the box sounded great and only got better over time. Placement was relatively easy in that room; equidistant from side walls that were a good 6-8 feet away. They had to be relatively close to the wall behind them (18 inches) but that was not an issue as far as I heard.

We listened to the local shop's demo pair of A5s (the same shop that didn't want @PeterA to hear them I'm confident) and found them as likeable as our A3s but with more extended bass. After listening to them and a few other options we opted to purchase their demo pair of S5MkIIs and are delighted. They live in a different room but also are only about 18 inches from the rear wall . . . but not close at all to side walls.

 

[kparmer65]

To me, it's not a total surprise you were a little disappointed by the A5. I agree with your fundamental assessment that perhaps your dealer didn't listen or didn't understand needs/preference of more low bass which you'll get more from the ported 801N, compared to the sealed A5. Particularly if your wife is a hardcore rocker. Personally, I strongly suspect if you had taken a microphone to measure your 801N in the same location, most people would think that you have excessive bass that you just got used to and it's not natural. But then it's your money so you and your wife should enjoy music however you want to enjoy it.

A quick search for Stereophile's measurements of the 801N vs A5 would show you the differences in the frequency response characteristics.
Given the photo provided, I doubt you can re-inforce the A5 bass any more to your liking. I think combining everyone's suggestions including my own, your best bet for now is:
1) Burn in the speakers some more as the bass quality will improve (although I doubt you'll get more low bass then what you had with the 801N). I do think part (but not all) of that lack of presence is due to the woofers not being burnt in yet.
2) Toe in the speakers more to get more treble. I think the 801N treble is actually quite excessive but the lateral dispersion lowers the treble more. Whereas the A5 treble is more natural but to get the same sense of space and air, you need to point the tweeter towards your listening position (or at least at your ears). Especially when you're used to the excess treble from the 801N
3) If after 200 hours of burn-in, you're still not happy with the A5, it's time to get rid of it as it's in high demand so I doubt you'll lose much money (if at all) from the sale and you can always buy a pair of B&W speakers that you're happy with.
At the end of the day, you should be happy with the speakers that you own.
Personally, I'll take the A5 any day over any generation of B&W speakers. But that's my personal preference. It's possible that you don't. That's fine. That's why people drive different cars, prefer different foods, etc.

Wow! Man I really appreciate your summation you are on point. I agree with your assessment of the 801. believe me when I say I didn’t think they were a perfect speaker by any means. Some poorer recorded music was almost unlistenable on the 801 and much better on the A5 for sure. Musically the A5 is at some level out of the box better. Obviously when you trade and spend you expect better not different. As you stated your ear is yours and everyone else’s is well theirs.
As a Ford dealer I seen this same debate with Super Duty clients on the issue of Gas or Diesel. As you said Salesman pushed them on us and I’m not sure why. I was a committed buyer. Strange
Your optimal plan for me is spot on. Brake them in and see. I may also consider adding a Sub..maybe, not sure yet. If I do I may need to add a electrical circuit to handle the amperage load. Not positive on that either. Just finished a remodel on the lower level so that may present some challenges get a new electrical circuit run in this room.

Ecwl. I really appreciate your pragmatic comments. the people here like yourself have calmed me for sure. I came here for exactly that. All is not lost..LOL.
I will fail in love or move on..Life will go on…LOL

Appreciate you!
Best!
KP

 

[kparmer65]

To me, it's not a total surprise you were a little disappointed by the A5. I agree with your fundamental assessment that perhaps your dealer didn't listen or didn't understand needs/preference of more low bass which you'll get more from the ported 801N, compared to the sealed A5. Particularly if your wife is a hardcore rocker. Personally, I strongly suspect if you had taken a microphone to measure your 801N in the same location, most people would think that you have excessive bass that you just got used to and it's not natural. But then it's your money so you and your wife should enjoy music however you want to enjoy it.

A quick search for Stereophile's measurements of the 801N vs A5 would show you the differences in the frequency response characteristics.
Given the photo provided, I doubt you can re-inforce the A5 bass any more to your liking. I think combining everyone's suggestions including my own, your best bet for now is:
1) Burn in the speakers some more as the bass quality will improve (although I doubt you'll get more low bass then what you had with the 801N). I do think part (but not all) of that lack of presence is due to the woofers not being burnt in yet.
2) Toe in the speakers more to get more treble. I think the 801N treble is actually quite excessive but the lateral dispersion lowers the treble more. Whereas the A5 treble is more natural but to get the same sense of space and air, you need to point the tweeter towards your listening position (or at least at your ears). Especially when you're used to the excess treble from the 801N
3) If after 200 hours of burn-in, you're still not happy with the A5, it's time to get rid of it as it's in high demand so I doubt you'll lose much money (if at all) from the sale and you can always buy a pair of B&W speakers that you're happy with.
At the end of the day, you should be happy with the speakers that you own.
Personally, I'll take the A5 any day over any generation of B&W speakers. But that's my personal preference. It's possible that you don't. That's fine. That's why people drive different cars, prefer different foods, etc.

One last thing I would like to say about your comment. Not really being people that study Audio at the level most members here do. We have learned some things about our selves, me and my wife that is. I built hotroddin for years and I know some people could care less about old cars, I figured out some years back that I just loved the feeling of going back to the 60’s and 70’s. My problem was I wanted modern performance. So upgrade everything to all modern driveline. Awesome.
we didn’t even know ourselves why but yes the excessive bass gave us that live concert like experience. We were chasing enjoying those memories feelings.
I had no idea..I really am laughing at myself for sure.
thanks again

 

[Rhapsody]

One last thing I would like to say about your comment. Not really being people that study Audio at the level most members here do. We have learned some things about our selves, me and my wife that is. I built hotroddin for years and I know some people could care less about old cars, I figured out some years back that I just loved the feeling of going back to the 60’s and 70’s. My problem was I wanted modern performance. So upgrade everything to all modern driveline. Awesome.
we didn’t even know ourselves why but yes the excessive bass gave us that live concert like experience. We were chasing enjoying those memories feelings.
I had no idea..I really am laughing at myself for sure.
thanks again

I know a LOT of people that love the sound of full bodied bass/ported speakers. Nothing wrong with it, if that is what you like!

It's GREAT to know what you like and not what other people like, or what you read that tells you what is right or wrong.

I also LOVE 50's/60's cars. I'm happy just to be able to look at them. The finest form of artwork to me.

Life is short, enjoy what you like!!!

 

[ecwl]

One thing that might still keep your hopes up that all will work out is that my dealer got a new A5 about 1.5 weeks ago. I dropped by to listen a week ago and right now. He has been burning it in 24/7 and I definitely here more low and mid-bass with more dynamics compared to last week.
Would be curious to hear from you in a week or two what the final verdict is. It’s always hard because we are not audio dealers so it’s harder to keep our speakers burning in continuously 24/7.

 

[Bartolo]

The Magico sealed cabinet bass is just not going to be what you're used to hearing from a speaker with a 15" paper/Kevlar woofer that is ported. Very different approaches and sounds.

If you do decide at some point to add a subwoofer, (1) they are not a magical answer (they can be quite difficult to integrate WELL into the soundstage) and (2) no you won't need anything like a dedicated circuit -- 110v/ 15 amp is plenty.

 

[kparmer65]

The Magico sealed cabinet bass is just not going to be what you're used to hearing from a speaker with a 15" paper/Kevlar woofer that is ported. Very different approaches and sounds.

If you do decide at some point to add a subwoofer, (1) they are not a magical answer (they can be quite difficult to integrate WELL into the soundstage) and (2) no you won't need anything like a dedicated circuit -- 110v/ 15 amp is plenty.

What I’m gathering from a lot of the responses here is that the Magico A5 is a superior speaker over my old B&W’s. I guess that is a fact period. I think I’m just experiencing some unique problems
The home I have them in has a fireplace in the main level living area making optimal placement difficult. I do have them out 18 inches from the wall and towed in slightly. Now if I sit directly center stage to the speakers they sound wonderful musically, fantastic sound stage. Still lacking the punch that I really enjoy so that was my thought on the Sub. Maybe I will just have to live without.
We do entertainment a little and I do sit at the bar area of the kitchen and sometimes at the dinning table. The old speakers were pretty good anywhere these seem to be well almost unlistenable if your not in front and center stage.
My comment on needing a additional circuit is because the room is all on one electrical circuit so if my 611’s draw say 8 amps each and the sub draws 3 or 4 amps that’s 20 amp load?
Sounds like a problem to me but I don’t know.
I really wanted the 1.25kw amps when I purchased the 611’s the power issue was the reason I didn’t and here I am again.
As I stated in the past post these A5’s are working my Amps to absolute death.

 

[Rhapsody]

What I’m gathering from a lot of the responses here is that the Magico A5 is a superior speaker over my old B&W’s. I guess that is a fact period. I think I’m just experiencing some unique problems
The home I have them in has a fireplace in the main level living area making optimal placement difficult. I do have them out 18 inches from the wall and towed in slightly. Now if I sit directly center stage to the speakers they sound wonderful musically, fantastic sound stage. Still lacking the punch that I really enjoy so that was my thought on the Sub. Maybe I will just have to live without.
We do entertainment a little and I do sit at the bar area of the kitchen and sometimes at the dinning table. The old speakers were pretty good anywhere these seem to be well almost unlistenable if your not in front and center stage.
My comment on needing a additional circuit is because the room is all on one electrical circuit so if my 611’s draw say 8 amps each and the sub draws 3 or 4 amps that’s 20 amp load?
Sounds like a problem to me but I don’t know.
I really wanted the 1.25kw amps when I purchased the 611’s the power issue was the reason I didn’t and here I am again.
As I stated in the past post these A5’s are working my Amps to absolute death.

You might just like big full bodied ported bass. Nothing wrong with that.

Magico, sealed cabinet bass in clear, clean bass and with two or three bass instruments playing (if the system is capable) you can clearly differentiate between the bass instruments.

My experience has been that customers who switch from ported speakers to sealed cabinet speakers AND vice versa have to give it some time to adjust to the new sound. It is totally different. You may decide that you just prefer ported speakers. Again, nothing wrong with that.

As stated by someone else subs are not going to do what you are looking for. Give the A5s some time to first of all break in, they need 200 hours minimum before they will settle in to their long term sound, then see what you think.

Dedicated circuits with 10 gauge wire and good outlets can make a big difference sonically.

 

[Audire]

What I’m gathering from a lot of the responses here is that the Magico A5 is a superior speaker over my old B&W’s. I guess that is a fact period. I think I’m just experiencing some unique problems
The home I have them in has a fireplace in the main level living area making optimal placement difficult. I do have them out 18 inches from the wall and towed in slightly. Now if I sit directly center stage to the speakers they sound wonderful musically, fantastic sound stage. Still lacking the punch that I really enjoy so that was my thought on the Sub. Maybe I will just have to live without.
We do entertainment a little and I do sit at the bar area of the kitchen and sometimes at the dinning table. The old speakers were pretty good anywhere these seem to be well almost unlistenable if your not in front and center stage.
My comment on needing a additional circuit is because the room is all on one electrical circuit so if my 611’s draw say 8 amps each and the sub draws 3 or 4 amps that’s 20 amp load?
Sounds like a problem to me but I don’t know.
I really wanted the 1.25kw amps when I purchased the 611’s the power issue was the reason I didn’t and here I am again.
As I stated in the past post these A5’s are working my Amps to absolute death.

Our set up is similar. We have a fireplace as well. Instead of setting up the system on the FP wall we choose to set it up on one of the side walls. For the most part this worked better for us. My wife likes it better as well.

We have three (3) dedicated circuits - one for each individual amp and the other one for everything else. 10 gauge with Shunyata outlets.

IMO, the more power the better for Magicos. We presently have Pass Labs 260s feeding ours - 520 into 4 Ohms. We sampled a set of EMM Labs MTRX2 amps - 1000 into 4 Ohms. The difference was immediately heard, felt and desired. We still have a few more amps to try, but EMM will probably be it at this point - good synergy with the other EMM units we already own.

Your A5s are rated for 1000 w while my M3’s are only for 500 w. While your 611s are more than ample, IMO the A5’s may enjoy a little more clean power….

 

[ecwl]

I'm still mystified by the lack of power coming out of the A5 from the MC611. Now, in theory, the impedance of the 801N and A5 are fairly similar. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can go in the same spot of the 611?
I'm wondering, was your 801N connected to the 8 ohm or 4ohm or 2ohm output of your 611? I think the nominal impedance of the 801N is 8ohms. Remember the nominal impedance of the A5 is 4ohms. And is your A5 currently connected to the 4ohm or 2ohm output of your 611? If you're feeling that you're not getting enough bass, maybe moving the A5 to a different connection would make it sound better?
Moreover, are you frequently seeing the needle on your amp going to 600W?

 

[kparmer65]

You might just like big full bodied ported bass. Nothing wrong with that.

Magico, sealed cabinet bass in clear, clean bass and with two or three bass instruments playing (if the system is capable) you can clearly differentiate between the bass instruments.

My experience has been that customers who switch from ported speakers to sealed cabinet speakers AND vice versa have to give it some time to adjust to the new sound. It is totally different. You may decide that you just prefer ported speakers. Again, nothing wrong with that.

As stated by someone else subs are not going to do what you are looking for. Give the A5s some time to first of all break in, they need 200 hours minimum before they will settle in to their long term sound, then see what you think.

Dedicated circuits with 10 gauge wire and good outlets can make a big difference sonically.

Agreed on the 10 gauge wire and dedicated Circuit.
My other home has that. I did it a few weeks after I purchased it.
This one is a little more challenging to accomplish. Guys at The Audio store where I picked the 611’s said I didn’t need it.
I had a set of none ported years ago Infinity’s I came from a set of HPM150’s so I do remember the get used to it thing.
Appreciate your thoughts again.

Our set up is similar. We have a fireplace as well. Instead of setting up the system on the FP wall we choose to set it up on one of the side walls. For the most part this worked better for us. My wife likes it better as well.

We have three (3) dedicated circuits - one for each individual amp and the other one for everything else. 10 gauge with Shunyata outlets.

IMO, the more power the better for Magicos. We presently have Pass Labs 260s feeding ours - 520 into 4 Ohms. We sampled a set of EMM Labs MTRX2 amps - 1000 into 4 Ohms. The difference was immediately heard, felt and desired. We still have a few more amps to try, but EMM will probably be it at this point - good synergy with the other EMM units we already own.

Your A5s are rated for 1000 w while my M3’s are only for 500 w. While your 611s are more than ample, IMO the A5’s may enjoy a little more clean power….

View attachment 92877

good advice on the Dedicated circuits that I will have to do for sure. a large amp also maybe in the future for sure.

 

[kparmer65]

I'm still mystified by the lack of power coming out of the A5 from the MC611. Now, in theory, the impedance of the 801N and A5 are fairly similar. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can go in the same spot of the 611?
I'm wondering, was your 801N connected to the 8 ohm or 4ohm or 2ohm output of your 611? I think the nominal impedance of the 801N is 8ohms. Remember the nominal impedance of the A5 is 4ohms. And is your A5 currently connected to the 4ohm or 2ohm output of your 611? If you're feeling that you're not getting enough bass, maybe moving the A5 to a different connection would make it sound better?
Moreover, are you frequently seeing the needle on your amp going to 600W?

I have them connected to the 4 ohm posts on the Amps now. The B&W‘s were 8 ohm. I didn’t think it was a good idea to connect a 4 ohm speaker to say the 2 ohm side I was always under the impression that it could damage the speake?

as others have suggested maybe it’s a electrical problem from the wall to the Amp. I’m going to get that done and see what happens.
thanks much

 

[Rhapsody]

Guys at The Audio store where I picked the 611’s said I didn’t need it.

You DON"T need it, unless you want the system to sound better

 

[kparmer65]

You DON"T need it, unless you want the system to sound better

 

[kparmer65]

That’s what I thought. It’s all a learning experience.

 

[kparmer65]

Made a deal on a set of 801d’s selling the Magico’s in the for sale Forum. Anyone interested. Listed at the lowest price anywhere that I can find.

 

[Soundrulz]

Made a deal on a set of 801d’s selling the Magico’s in the for sale Forum. Anyone interested. Listed at the lowest price anywhere that I can find.

I had 802N for many years. And my brother in-law has the 801N. Bass was very strong but not precise, just seemed fat. High end was way too forward and too etchy for me.
I compared 800D3 and A5 same day on the same front end and the A5 were much better on vocals and similar bass. 801N are getting somewhat old and have issues getting any parts now.

 

[kparmer65]

I had 802N for many years. And my brother in-law has the 801N. Bass was very strong but not precise, just seemed fat. High end was way too forward and too etchy for me.
I compared 800D3 and A5 same day on the same front end and the A5 were much better on vocals and similar bass. 801N are getting somewhat old and have issues getting any parts now.

Trade the A5’s for a
Set of 801d2’s. Been waiting for them to
Come in.
I will let you know how these compare.

 

[Soundrulz]

Trade the A5’s for a
Set of 801d2’s. Been waiting for them to
Come in.
I will let you know how these compare.

Cool! Did you consider 800D3’s? Guessing you have a big room for these? I may have missed your room size. My bother in-law has his 801N in a somewhat small room and they over power it. Bass is way over the top. We have exactly the same front end, all Bryston gear. I found my 802N had good bass, but didn’t go that low. 801N do go lower, but not like the newer D4.