Magico M7 2023

[gds7368]

I liken Magico to "digital" and Wilson to "vinyl" with all the standard implications. One of my first posts on WBF dealt with "digital vs vinyl". that debate continues to rage?

I've followed this website for years and couldn't disagree with any one sentence more than this one. I'm virtually 100% vinyl through my Magicos at this point, and enjoying every minute of it. It's not that digital can't sound good through them, it's just that analog sounds like the band is in the room. I respect your opinion, just not my experience (my room etc) at all. No offense, ScottK.

 

[PeterA]

You mean like this Peter?

Yes. Magico marketing used to be in a photo booth with a single color backdrop drawing attention to the object rather than to the speaker in the environment in which it is placed.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Has anyone noticed how unadorned the rooms are in the marketing photographs from Wilson and now suddenly Magico? The speakers are photographed in large stately rooms with lots of wooden paneling and high ceilings, and often a piano. Admittedly there are also often large windows. My vote is for wooden paneled walls, high coffered ceilings, windows with wooden shutters, and nice oriental carpets. Lots of bookshelves or record shelves. How nice it would be to have one of those rooms in which to enjoy an awesome system.

Some really enjoy their listening spaces looking like studio environments… the single lonely chair and the walls and ceilings sprouting gangly diffusers and giant bass traps.

I’m a big fan of music rooms for living. Traditional music rooms always had a lovely culture and finesse about their spirit with a community of chairs and features that were still very human and personal in nature.

I’ve always felt music rooms were more about music and shared culture and living and studio style spaces were about the more isolated world of experiencing sound. Neither is wrong. I spent over 20 years working in studio environments so I became a bit allergic to them when I was at home. But we do spend such a huge portion of our lives in this experience and we should craft our spaces so they create the environment that is best for each of us and just how we view what we want our inner worlds to be most like. If you buy a speaker that needs absolutely the most controlled environment to work for you then that’s a choice that has some large implications in how broadly connected you may set the experience of music for yourself.

 

[AudioGod]

jim

I liken Magico to "digital" and Wilson to "vinyl" with all the standard implications. One of my first posts on WBF dealt with "digital vs vinyl". that debate continues to rage?

So Magico = detailed Analytical neutral sound
Wilson = "musical " organic but less detailed sound ?

 

[christoph]

hanging some attractive diffusers from the ceiling.

Can you give examples for that?

 

[JiminGa]

I think Elliot’s points are all well taken.Everything to follow is just my opinion. I believe that In every case there is one spot where the speaker is optimized for the room whether sealed or not. My experience is that Wilson’s are actually hard to set up BECAUSE of all the adjustments. Each one is a potential source of error and you are trusting the installer to nail each one. I don’t believe there is a standard set up which works uniformly. I don’t care for the huge but diffuse soundstage that typical Wilson set up guys go for. ( even Peter)That is just my personal opinion. I’m sure I’m in the minority there. After they are finished be very careful not to touch the superstructure because even minute movements changes things. I have nothing against Wilson. I am only commenting on the room placement question. Magico’s sealed bass doesn’t get you out of having to spend the time to optimally place the speakers either. The time spent optimizing speaker location is in my opinion the single best use of time you can make in optimizing the sound for any system in a given room. Of course it’s best to optimize the room but this is rarely possible. I would also say that having a dealer which understands this and is willing to spend a couple of days getting it right is the number one reason to choose one and worth paying more for it.

 

[AudioGod]

I think Elliot’s points are all well taken.Everything to follow is just my opinion. I believe that In every case there is one spot where the speaker is optimized for the room whether sealed or not. My experience is that Wilson’s are actually hard to set up BECAUSE of all the adjustments. Each one is a potential source of error and you are trusting the installer to nail each one. I don’t believe there is a standard set up which works uniformly. I don’t care for the huge but diffuse soundstage that typical Wilson set up guys go for. ( even Peter)That is just my personal opinion. I’m sure I’m in the minority there. After they are finished be very careful not to touch the superstructure because even minute movements changes things. I have nothing against Wilson. I am only commenting on the room placement question. Magico’s sealed bass doesn’t get you out of having to spend the time to optimally place the speakers either. The time spent optimizing speaker location is in my opinion the single best use of time you can make in optimizing the sound for any system in a given room. Of course it’s best to optimize the room but this is rarely possible. I would also say that having a dealer which understands this and is willing to spend a couple of days getting it right is the number one reason to choose one and worth paying more for it.

I agree
Too many adjustments is also not such a good thing
Besides I'd rather use DSP or EQ and not adjustments in the speaker itself

 

[Al M.]

I think Elliot’s points are all well taken.Everything to follow is just my opinion. I believe that In every case there is one spot where the speaker is optimized for the room whether sealed or not. My experience is that Wilson’s are actually hard to set up BECAUSE of all the adjustments. Each one is a potential source of error and you are trusting the installer to nail each one. I don’t believe there is a standard set up which works uniformly. I don’t care for the huge but diffuse soundstage that typical Wilson set up guys go for. ( even Peter)That is just my personal opinion. I’m sure I’m in the minority there. After they are finished be very careful not to touch the superstructure because even minute movements changes things. I have nothing against Wilson. I am only commenting on the room placement question. Magico’s sealed bass doesn’t get you out of having to spend the time to optimally place the speakers either. The time spent optimizing speaker location is in my opinion the single best use of time you can make in optimizing the sound for any system in a given room. Of course it’s best to optimize the room but this is rarely possible. I would also say that having a dealer which understands this and is willing to spend a couple of days getting it right is the number one reason to choose one and worth paying more for it.

Great post. I do wonder what you mean by optimizing a room rarely being possible. I have found that carefully applied room treatment (diffusion and/or absorption) can go a long way.

 

[PeterA]

I don’t believe there is a standard set up which works uniformly. I don’t care for the huge but diffuse soundstage that typical Wilson set up guys go for. ( even Peter)That is just my personal opinion. .

Actually I don’t want a large and diffuse soundstage either. I want the information on the recording to be presented naturally. It’s nice to have a large soundstage and scale when listening to large classical works. It is nice to have a smaller stage if it is a few musicians in the studio or night club. I get that too from my system. It all depends on what is on the recording.

Diffusion is also not the goal for me. I just don’t want precise pinpoint imaging because I don’t hear that at live events or even with someone talking to me across the table or a violinist or pianist in the living room. To me that is an artifact and quite artificial sounding.

I went to the Boston Symphony the other night. This time I sat in the middle of the hall. The soundstage was large but not nearly as large as what I’m used to from closer seats to the stage. Nothing was diffuse. But there was not pinpoint imaging either. Instruments were very distinct from each other and with eyes closed they could be located in an among the rest of the stage. Play energy created by the musician playing his instrument expands into the hall and with reflections surrounds the listener. There is a physicality to that and that is what I want to try to re-create from my system and the recording.

 

[treitz3]

<snip> The time spent optimizing speaker location is in my opinion the single best use of time you can make in optimizing the sound for any system in a given room. <snip>

Absolutely!

Tom

 

[AudioGod]

Actually I don’t want a large and diffuse soundstage either. I want the information on the recording to be presented naturally. It’s nice to have a large soundstage and scale when listening to large scale classical works. It is nice to have a smaller stage if it is a few musicians in the studio or night club. I get that too. It all depends on what is on the recording.

Diffusion is also not the goal for me. I just don’t want precise pinpoint imaging which I don’t hear at live events or even with someone talking to me across the table we’re violinist or pianist in the living room. To me that is an artifact and quite artificial.

A speaker without precise pinpoint imaging cannot be defined as hi end at all

 

[Ron Resnick]

I just don’t want precise pinpoint imaging which I don’t hear at live events or even with someone talking to me across the table we’re violinist or pianist in the living room. To me that is an artifact and quite artificial.

+1

 

[JiminGa]

Al M, I meant that other considerations frequently get in the way. Aesthetics, comfort usability and of course WAF.

 

[Al M.]

+1

+2

 

[PeterA]

A speaker without precise pinpoint imaging cannot be defined as hi end at all

I disagree completely. On what do you base this comment? Do you think it is the speaker that creates that pinpoint imaging and is that what you hear when you listen to live music and from the people at the table during a dinner party? I used to have that pinpoint imaging kind of presentation with my old system when it was set up a certain way. I changed my approach when I started listening to more live acoustic music.

there are many different approaches and we all choose our own.

 

[JiminGa]

Peter A, exactly. This is why there is often no universal answer to most questions in audio. I, like you, want to use live music as my reference. Others want larger than life whiz bang audio tricks, mid bass hump with impressive kick drums and bass lines. It leads us to gravitate towards manufacturers which share our aim. They are both legitimate sources of joy for people and should be encouraged. I think that’s why people get angry when others don’t like their particular brands they choose because it is somehow saying their source of joy is wrong. That can get very personal. Some manufacturers contribute to this by dogmatically saying that there is actually only one way.

 

[Al M.]

I think that’s why people get angry when others don’t like their particular brands they choose because it is somehow saying their source of joy is wrong.

But some people on WBF are always "right". How dare you question their opinion?

That can get very personal. Some manufacturers contribute to this by dogmatically saying that there is actually only one way.

Many manufacturers (designers) are experts in their preferred circuitry, and not beyond that. Their opinions may be more informed and based on more experience than other opinions, but in the end they are just that -- opinions.

No reason to take a designer's (or any other expert's) "authority" as the last word on any issue. That holds for your and my favorite designers as well. They may be extremely good at what they do, but in the end they are just humans as is everyone else.

 

[AudioGod]

I disagree completely. On what do you base this comment? Do you think it is the speaker that creates that pinpoint imaging and is that what you hear when you listen to live music and from the people at the table during a dinner party? I used to have that pinpoint imaging kind of presentation with my old system when it was set up a certain way. I changed my approach when I started listening to more live acoustic music.

there are many different approaches and we all choose our own.

Live music is a bad example
Many times live music sounds worst than recorded music .
Besides , you don't listen to live music at home , you're listening to *recorded * music
And it usually has pinpoint imaging .
If your speakers /system don't reflect exactly what's on the recording , then what's the point ?
If the recording has diffuse imaging , then yes it should sound diffused .

 

[JiminGa]

Ok. It is absolutely true that most live mixing is horrible in large electric amplified music venues. Some of this is intentional for the rock crowd wanting thumping bass. Some is acoustics and some is lack of expertise. What I neglected to say was that live unamplified music in a decent venue or live in the studio listening to music being made was my guide. That way you know exactly what the singer and the musicians sound like in reality. Face to face. It’s perfectly ok not to use this as your North Star. Love what you love. We will buy different equipment and set it up differently than each other. No one is wrong. Peter’s example is terrible for you but not for him. I hope we never get to the point where everyone agrees on speakers, digital vs analog, tubes vs solid state etc. because I like the fact we are after different things which may require different choices.

 

[PeterA]

Live music is a bad example
Many times live music sounds worst than recorded music .
Besides , you don't listen to live music at home , you're listening to *recorded * music
And it usually has pinpoint imaging .
If your speakers /system don't reflect exactly what's on the recording , then what's the point ?
If the recording has diffuse imaging , then yes it should sound diffused .

Live music is my reference, and the reference for many here, but not all.

In my opinion, very precise, pinpoint imaging, usually with outlines, is an artifact, and to me it sounds artificial. Some gear and combinations of components and acoustic treatment set up in particular ways will create this effect. Sure, some people like that. It gives the illusion that someone is there in the room with you, but it sounds fake to me. When I close my eyes when listening to someone speak or when listening to live acoustic instruments, I do not hear this effect. Therefore, I do not want to recreate it in my listening room. My goal is a more natural presentation, reminding me of what I hear live.

I am talking about the origin of the sound, the location of the musician with his instrument as it is presented before me. My focus is the sound that the musician or singer makes with his or her instrument. The musician himself is not making a sound. We should not see/hear/imagine a pinpoint image of the musician or his instrument but rather the location from which the energy originates and then expands into the space. Is that precise? To me, it is about the spatial relationships between the instruments up on stage and how the energy moves outward and around and is reflected. I can tell that the violins are to the left of the piano and cello and that the timpani is further back in center and where the brass section and wind instruments are. The triangle may pierce through the mix and be on the left side, but where exactly is hard to tell, especially if you sit further back in the hall. Of course Ella is sitting there right next to Joe Pass in front of me in my room, but even then, it is not pinpoint and certainly not outlined. I hear her voice and his guitar. I hear the moment the sound is created and roughly where, but no pinpoint and no outline. The scale is believable and their relationship within the space is convincing. I can imagine them there singing and playing, but it is only the origin of the sound in space as captured by the recording and presented by the system in the room. Pinpoint imaging also implies to me at least a very small and precise point in space. Hearing a piano or cello or voice singing is nothing like that.

Yes, we all certainly have different approaches, observations, and goals.