Magico M7 2023

[GSOphile]

There's a giant chasm in philosophic and thus real world differences between the M7 and XVX loudspeakers. Magico has always had a "my way or the highway" approach to their sound whereby no user adjustments are possible to suit the user's environment. On the other hand Wilson allows for modest customization of the sound with user replaceable resistors for some key drivers (i.e. tweeter). If your room has all glass windows or heavy drapery, do you think all speakers will sound their best in those very disparate environments? Magico simply doesn't seem to care or offer any flexibility for sonic adjustment depending on the environment. I'm sure Magico's sound wonderful in their lab and listening space, but what if your space is not their space? I would have hard time buying speakers for 400K that didn't offer any user options for fine-tuning the speaker's sound in my particular room. The flexibility that Wilson, and others provide for real world optimization of the sound in any given room is an asset that seems very advantageous to me. "You pays yer money and you takes yer choice" as Paul Heath once told me many decades ago.

In my limited experience at the Sasha/S3 ends of these product lines, Wilson's are very sensitive to room placement and don't work well in some rooms. So perhaps they need all those knobs at the higher end. Magico's, on the other hand, are easier to set up and don't require such precise placement to sound good in a wider variety of rooms.

 

[JackD201]

Yes, me as well, but then for me who has now paid the deposit for three pair of M7s as a dealer is different than a customer.

There are several pairs of M7 shipping and being installed in Asia in December. All of the first M7 customers around the globe have purchased the M7s without first hearing them.

I have probably sold 25+ pairs of large scale speakers in the past to customers prior to them hearing them. It happens all the time. I've never sold a pair of large scale speakers and the customers did not like them. They usually have a pretty good idea about a brand and have a good idea what to expect from listening or owning speakers from the brand they are buying to feel comfortable making their purchase.

Also even if someone hears a speaker at a dealer or at a show, they have an idea what it will sound like in their room, but really the speakers they heard at a show or dealer will sound totally different in their room, especially the bass and with their power, electronics, cables etc.

I never will sell a speaker to a customer before first understanding their room and their system and I have a pretty good idea after buying and installing a few hundred speakers/systems over the last 50 years whether there will be any non-treatable issues.

I hope you're hiring others to do all the lifting Bob! You know how concerned I am about your back!

 

[Rhapsody]

In my limited experience at the Sasha/S3 ends of these product lines, Wilson's are very sensitive to room placement and don't work well in some rooms. So perhaps they need all those knobs at the higher end. Magico's, on the other hand, are easier to set up and don't require such precise placement to sound good in a wider variety of rooms.

I didn't want to say this, but since you did, I will mention that with sealed box speakers you just don't have many room issues when setting up. It hast to do with the bass which is always room dependent.

You can place sealed box enclosures right against the back wall or you can bring them way out into the room. With I don't know how many Magico installations that I have done at my customers or at my place I have never had a bass issue with any Magico speaker post installation. If there are room issues with midrange or high frequencies you can work with room treatments and speaker positioning to correct any issues.

Not just with Wilson but ANY ported speaker, which I also represent and have represented other ported brands in the past, you have to be much more careful about set up and speaker positioning. It again has to do with the bass. Try putting a rear ported speaker six inches from a rear wall. I like the big Wilsons that allow you to have the port front or rear firing. It's a very useful option. In many environments speakers must be located close to the back wall for all types of various reasons.

IMHO ported speakers or sealed box speakers both can sound great and it comes down to personal preference and good set up.

 

[Rhapsody]

I hope you're hiring others to do all the lifting Bob! You know how concerned I am about your back!

Hi Jack, Since I had a hip replacement last December my back and entire body is now capable of "heavy lifting"! I limped around for years after being hit by a car 15 years ago. I should have had a hip replacement a long time ago. Game changer.

 

[Kingsrule]

@marty was that in Rochester? He was there mid-70s, right? Man, we had audio shops back then.

On State Street across from Kodak...heard DQ 10's there for the first time and bought a D76 there.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...oh yeah. The famous: Kodak Bonus was a boon to area merchants. We could've even chatted in a hifi store there years ago!

 

[marty]

On State Street across from Kodak...heard DQ 10's there for the first time and bought a D76 there.

Correct. I worked there when I was in college so I could buy my first ARC gear at accommodation pricing. Those were the days....
Paul loved that shop, I loved Paul. At 5pm he was glued to the shop window looking across the street at Kodak where all the secretaries were leaving for the day. His shop could have burned to the ground behind him and he wouldn't have noticed.

 

[marty]

Marty, why don't you come over to Rhapsody for a listen after we have the M7s installed in a non treated room sometime in Q1/24 and see if your assertion that Magicos only sound good in the Magico showroom is valid?

Bob, that's not my point. I expect that M7s will sound great in your room and many rooms. I'm just saying that flexibility for adapting to the environment in a speaker set-up can be a big advantage. That's why many manufacturers offer built-in user adjustment options of some sort. That said, you can bet I'll stop by to hear your M7's (and hopefully the Alsyvox at the same time).

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, that's not my point. I expect that M7s will sound great in your room and many rooms. I'm just saying that flexibility for adapting to the environment in a speaker set-up can be a big advantage. That's why many manufacturers offer built-in user adjustment options of some sort. That said, you can bet I'll stop by to hear your M7's (and hopefully the Alsyvox at the same time).

Magicos are so good that they automatically adapt to any room and any listener

 

[ScottK]

One reason I purchased my Magico A-5's was setup. I knew they could not be brought off the front wall more than a foot. While I love many aspects of this speaker my biggest complaint is that they don't image well. Have no experience with the larger Magico's.

 

[Rhapsody]

One reason I purchased my Magico A-5's was setup. I knew they could not be brought off the front wall more than a foot. While I love many aspects of this speaker my biggest complaint is that they don't image well. Have no experience with the larger Magic's.

I would suggest something is going on "somewhere" as A5s are capable of VG imaging and soundstage. Although a foot off of the wall is not going to create a 3D holographic soundstage.

If you have a pic of your system/room and a list or your gear someone might be able to take a guess at why you are not getting good imaging.

 

[ScottK]

The gear can be seen below.

 

[ScottK]

Although a foot off of the wall is not going to create a 3D holographic soundstage.

I think you are correct. The sealed cabinet approach is not immune to room placement. No speaker is. That's why I prefer the adjustability of the Wilson approach.

 

[Rhapsody]

The gear can be seen below.

Hi Scott, I drool over your window view! I guess this is a second system vs your system in your signature, correct? I recognize the the Classe amps that you have posted in your signature for the Alexx V but I'm confused a bit by the rest of the system in the pic. Are you using the Innuos and the VAC preamp on this system with the MSB dac?

 

[PeterA]

Magicos are so good that they automatically adapt to any room and any listener

Haha. That was exactly my experience until I entered the twilight zone and found myself back in 1960.

 

[ScottK]

I guess this is a second system

Hey Bob, Yes a second system in a 2nd home (western NC). The gear there is BHK pre, Terminator 2 DAC w/ GAIA DDC and Older Classe Mono's. Cables are all Wireworld Silver.

 

[Rhapsody]

Hey Bob, Yes a second system in a 2nd home (western NC). The gear there is BHK pre, Terminator 2 DAC w/ GAIA DDC and Older Classe Mono's. Cables are all Wireworld Silver.

Thx Scott, not to blame the electronics but the combination of the window and the electronics vs your main system electronics.

Just guessing that if the A5s were put into your main system they would image quite nicely. Just my two cents, maybe someone else has an opinion on it. Thx for sharing and again, what a view!

My perception of the A5's or most Magicos and other high end speakers is that they tell you what is going on with the electronics and the set up.

 

[ScottK]

My perception of the A5's or most Magicos and other high end speakers is that they tell you what is going on with the electronics and the set up.

Yes I agree. But in an earlier comment you seemed to suggest "that with sealed box speakers you just don't have many room issues". I, respectfully, don't agree with this. All speakers have room issues and of coarse electronics make a difference. I will also say very inexpensive systems can also image very well. I'm sure your new M-7's will be a phenomenal speakers. Would love to hear them next to the XVX's that I recently heard. Don't know how it could get much better but alas....never say never.

 

[Rhapsody]

Yes I agree. But in an earlier comment you seemed to suggest "that with sealed box speakers you just don't have many room issues". I, respectfully, don't agree with this. All speakers have room issues and of coarse electronics make a difference. I will also say very inexpensive systems can also image very well. I'm sure your new M-7's will be a phenomenal speakers. Would love to hear them next to the XVX's that I recently heard. Don't know how it could get much better but alas....never say never.

Understood about you questioning my comment. My comment about the sealed vs ported speakers was focused on bass issues. With imaging or high frequency/midrange issues imho any speaker is going to be prone to "soundstage" or too much or not enough high frequency/midrange issues.

The answer to these type of issues (not bass related) is room/set up and the electronics being used. Again, just my two cents.

I'm sure the XVX's that you heard sounded great. I expect the M7s to sound great as well. Probably different presentations but both really nice speakers.

Edit- I do think that higher resolution speakers are more demanding of both set up and the electronics that are being used vs lower resolution speakers and especially monitors that seem to image like crazy no matter how you set them up and no matter what electronics are used.

 

[Al M.]

Understood about you questioning my comment. My comment about the sealed vs ported speakers was focused on bass issues. With imaging or high frequency/midrange issues imho any speaker is going to be prone to "soundstage" or too much or not enough high frequency/midrange issues.

The answer to these type of issues (not bass related) is room/set up and the electronics being used. Again, just my two cents.

I'm sure the XVX's that you heard sounded great. I expect the M7s to sound great as well. Probably different presentations but both really nice speakers.

Bob, I disagree with your comment about lesser sensitivity of sealed speakers to bass issues. This is not my experience. The bass of Magicos can be very sensitive to in-room positioning as well. Some level of speaker adjustability would be welcome, I agree with Marty.