Magico Q7 + Constellation Performance series

Well, trying to convince someone of the benefits or liabilities of DRC in any brief essay is probably a non-starter because there are so many aspects to consider. My initial post on this subject was in 2010 (link below). The bottom line is whether after DRC, you have a music system that is more musically pleasing than it was before incorporating DRC. For many users like myself, the benefits have been considerable. For those that have not had positive experiences with DRC, it is no surprise your take away is negative. I think the main comment I wish to make in this regard is that it is not DRC per se that most people are judging when they hear DRC. Rather it is the implementation. I know that seems obvious, but it is an important overlooked detail. A superb DRC system can simply be made to sound unlistenable if it is not set up well. Conversely, a modest DRC set-up can have an impressive end result if set up judiciously. We should realize of course that most all professional recording studios think that audiophiles are nuts when it comes to their "purist" philosophies, and that most everything we hear commercially employs some form of digital correction. Again, that is neither a pro or anti DRC comment, but rather, it does say that there is a lot of DRC done commercially that appears to be implemented well enough that it commercially acceptable. There is almost certainly good reason for this and I'll leave it at that for further thought/comments.

As to my own system, I was more or less driven to DRC when I realized after years of trying to incorporate subwoofers with midrange/tweeters (this goes back decades to Maggies and subwoofers), that I as well as many others were always at a loss as to how to seamlessly integrate them using analogue gear. In fact, its no surprise that one really can't do this because the simple placement of subs behind the main speakers creates a time disparity that no analogue crossover can neutralize such that an impulse from the subs and mains will arrive at the listener's ears at the same time. You can stand on your head to try and prove this isn't so, but believe me, it will be futile. Without implementing a digital time delay to the mains (6-10 msec?) one can never get the timing right between subs and mains. Besides correcting time alignment between my Gotham subs and my Pipedream towers, the additional benefits of the modified (Anthony Padilla) TacT-based 2.2XP system I use are the opportunity to use very steep crossover slopes, and of course, implement the final target curve of my choosing (which I have often stated is very similar to the famed B&K curve mentioned frequently on this forum). http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?520-DSP-one-person-s-experience&highlight=target+curve

In a nutshell, that's about it. For me, I can't come close to bringing out the best attributes of my system without using DSP. As a reality check, I do try and bypass the DSP every year or so, but I almost have to force myself to wait a day or so (I want to at least make sure the system is burned in properly) before running back to my DSP based implementation. I'm also the first to admit that not everybody will have the deficiencies I have whereby DSP would be beneficial for their system. Steve knows darn well that I thought his system in Danville was superb and I therefore consistently tried to talk him out of implementing DSP.

One final word. There are so many superb DSP devices out there today for so little money that one could easily try DSP without a huge investment. The German Behringer DEQ2496 Ultra Curve Pro and/or the Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496 cost about $350 each and have received universal praise. If you are thinking that there is no way this gear can possibly be the sonic equal of your 10K preamp, or that it can only ruin your well designed analogue system, I would suggest that you defer your thoughts until you have implemented them well into your system. You might find they are capable of truly marvelous results, especially if you have significant room issues such as boundary effects, floor bounce suck out at 125Hz, a bright top end or any number of other acoustic maladies that can be judiciously improved with a good DSP device. Have fun experimenting!
 
That said , did you do SPL measurements after you adjusted the system by ear ( and you did as i read your thread ), and what was the deviation from neutral , sometimes what i thought to be right was proven not correct by the measurement , i had to adjust my listening accordingly.
So what i understand is that the FR at lets say the listening position can be corrected via DRC until one gets a neutral balance , (or any balance really)???
I do agree with you ands others on the slightly tilted bas and reduced treble( ive mentioned that also in several threads), as seen in the B K diagram In my case the tweeter rolls of around 1,5 db at 15 khz - 1 db at 10 khz ive found this to be a better balance than a straight line , the slightly reduced treble will lift the mid / bass in comparison.
I think this preferred FR balance lift in the bass is also because the avarage recording mikes have substantial roll off in the bass , and the speaker will correct for that a little , how much is done in mastering /recording i dont know.


Ps i am still reading your DRC thread
 
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ack - I have spent some time with the Q7 in Munich, CES and Singapore. They have sounded completely different every time I have heard them, which I believe is a real testimony to their excellence. In Munich, with the Spectral 260, lean it was not! If anything they had too much bass, to my ears. BTW, the top portion of the Q7 is where the XO resides. It is hollow. All internal chambers, but the bass, are completely isolated from the outer skin.

Watch this video:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/474-jay-z-kanye-west-v-magico-q7/
I don't think many loudspeakers can do this, especially sealed ones.

The Q7 is a revelatory product, IMO, just as the Mini and the Q5 were. Magico has taken the Q7 even further away from the "norm" which is a good thing. It also bolsters the company commitment to its philosophy. It may take more than a brief audition to acclimate to it, and for sure, they are not for everyone.
 
ack - I have spent some time with the Q7 in Munich, CES and Singapore. They have sounded completely different every time I have heard them, which I believe is a real testimony to their excellence. In Munich, with the Spectral 260, lean it was not! If anything they had too much bass, to my ears. BTW, the top portion of the Q7 is where the XO resides. It is hollow. All internal chambers, but the bass, are completely isolated from the outer skin.

Watch this video:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/474-jay-z-kanye-west-v-magico-q7/
I don't think many loudspeakers can do this, especially sealed ones.

The Q7 is a revelatory product, IMO, just as the Mini and the Q5 were. Magico has taken the Q7 even further away from the "norm" which is a good thing. It also bolsters the company commitment to its philosophy. It may take more than a brief audition to acclimate to it, and for sure, they are not for everyone.

As always, I trust my ears and hands to hear and feel the vibrations, as described; suggest you do the same. As discussed by me and others here, the speaker needs a bit of work. And as the subject says - this was one audition with one set of ancillary products. To repeat, I feel the product seems to have exceptional potential, so we need to audition it with more appropriate ancillary gear. Shows don't cut it for me. Now more than ever I am eager to listen to the Arrakis 2. If it matters, *that* speaker would be at the top of my list for world's best.
 
Now more than ever I am eager to listen to the Arrakis 2. If it matters, *that* speaker would be at the top of my list for world's best.

Totally agree having heard Rockports before and spoken with many people who have heard the Arrakis speakers. For me, i am most intrigued by Arrakis and Genesis Dragon.
 
Ive never heard the rockports unfortunately , they seem a bit hard to drive though from what i see on pics .
Lloyd did you ever hear a kharma exquisite , i quit like them as well , if i would have to buy a speaker in that price range it ll probably be that or wilson X series
 
Ive never heard the rockports unfortunately , they seem a bit hard to drive though from what i see on pics .
Lloyd did you ever hear a kharma exquisite , i quit like them as well , if i would have to buy a speaker in that price range it ll probably be that or wilson X series

Hi Andromedaaudio, Unfortunately, i have never had the opportunity to hear Kharmas. Would love to do it someday. I do like Wilson X-series...and in particular note that they can be adjusted quite a lot by the Wilson dealer when he installs. Not just positioning within room, moving the individual speaker cabinets...but the resistors inside each cabinet as well. Makes a huge difference in tailoring the sound to your equipment, room and of course your ears.
 
For anyone living in and around the Dallas area I would suggest sending Marty a PM and ask to come over for a listen. In my 50 years in this hobby , simply put I haven't heard another system on the planet that even comes close to Marty's.

Spoiler Alert.....Make sure you wear your Depends as you might find yourself incontinent after your listen :)

Having said that almost certainly I will be using DRC in my new room due to some constraints in the room measurements

Steve,
Are you going to use DRC full range or just for the subs?
 
Yes, for sure... Sorry for bringing an objective view to the discussion.

BTW I started tapping the cabinet because there was something audibly off with that midrange module. Tiny, but audible. If that cabinet is hollow, then this speaker might also be better served with an externally housed crossover and have that cavity damped. I am being perhaps too harsh, but it's the price range.
 
I am sorry, but I truly doubt you heard anything coming out of the box while listening to music, unless something was broken, or not set up properly (Given your impression, that may very well be the case). As I said, I spent a long time with these speakers, on 3 different occasions, and the first thing that comes to mind when you hear them is how "quiet" they are (and therefore phenomenally resolving-even you noticed). The video illustrate this very well. You may want to put something on your system and crank it up to 110 db at 3 meters, plug the ports, and see what happens.
 
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I agree

I have on several occasions asked Alon personally to join and post here. There are several speaker manufacturers here which IMO has helped raise member awareness

Based on the numbers of posts and views Magico threads have produced here, "member awareness" is not the problem.
 
I agree. Not a comfortable site for a Magico fan. Just read Astrotoy comment on the Q7/Constellation set-up on CA forum (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/474-jay-z-kanye-west-v-magico-q7/comments3.html#comments). One must ask why has he not posted it here...

Hi folks, I don't follow the WBF forum listings as closely as some. Chis Connaker did a feature article on the Q7's on the front page of CA and I was scheduled to hear them at Tim Marutani's place anyway, so the post went to CA. Larry
Here it is.

Spent over an hour today listening to the Q7's + Constellation set up in the photo. I listened to big chunks of 15ips 1/2 inch copies of of the Tape Project releases "Waltz for Debby" and "Arnold Overtures". I then listened to several digital cuts - including unreleased 176/24 Reference Recording jazz and classical organ and vocal and 176/24 digital copies of master tapes of a great old classical Decca release - Falla Three Cornered Hat conducted by Ansermet for which I have the original vinyl and the Esoteric 45RPM reissue. The Q7's were mighty impressive. What was most impressive were two aspects - the dynamic range and the subtle inner detail. I have both of the Tape Project releases, though in the 1/4 inch version, and I know the cuts that were played very well. I was spellbound listening to them - hearing little things that I had never heard before. The speakers are pretty big, though not as imposing as my Avantgarde Duos. I didn't ask to see the water glass test, however.

Larry
 
I am sorry, but I truly doubt you heard anything coming out of the box while listening to music, unless something was broken, or not set up properly (Given your impression, that may very well be the case). As I said, I spent a long time with these speakers, on 3 different occasions, and the first thing that comes to mind when you hear them is how "quiet" they are (and therefore phenomenally resolving-even you noticed). The video illustrate this very well. You may want to put something on your system and crank it up to 110 db at 3 meters, plug the ports, and see what happens.

Now that you edited your post and removed the attacking language, I can respond. That backplate vibrates to the touch and was slightly audible to me. The test in the video does not mount the glass of water on the back plate, nor can it; the top plate was the quietest of all - side and back were the problem, as I reported. If you get a chance next time, do the knuckle rap test on them.

BTW, I am glad to see astrotoy's post - that system must be using the Reference Constellation; glad to hear that it may be a much better match.
 
Now that you edited your post and removed the attacking language, I can respond.

Ack - It looks like I edited my post the same day I wrote it. That’s almost a week ago. I don’t remember any “attacking language”, but if you can see my edits then you have access to information I don’t (Why bother editing??). In any case, I appreciate your nobility.
 
Ack - It looks like I edited my post the same day I wrote it. That’s almost a week ago. I don’t remember any “attacking language”, but if you can see my edits then you have access to information I don’t (Why bother editing??). In any case, I appreciate your nobility.

Your original comments were along the lines "You cannot possibly have heard...". Keep in mind, we are both Magico fans, and I am just extremely neutral when I go into an audition and when I come out. Hope you are having a better day than me - I have messed up my main desktop computer big time; thank God I took a back-up before all the upgrades I am attempting. Had you caught me an hour ago, I would have been in a different mood, or dead :eek:
 
Keep in mind, we are both Magico fans

Any fan of Magico here on WBF, is a friend of mine :) Sorry for pestering you, I just think you need to hear the Q7 properly set up. They are, truly, amazing. Hope you get your PC back up.
 

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