Magico S5 vs Wilson Alexia

[microstrip]

There seems to be some interest in why I am selling my Alexia's and many are making the inference that there is something "wrong" with them or I don't like them. This couldn't be further from the truth. The Alexia's are by far the best all-around speaker I have had in my main listening room. They are incredibly balanced from top to bottom, producing just the right size of images, that famous Wilson midrange and the adjustability (propagation delay) to suit the room and listener is ideal. The decent efficiency of the Wilson's also lets you play with some different amps.

I've had my Alexia's for 8 months now and I listen to them every day. At the outset, I had to deal with the same old 73hz room node issue I've always had. I added some ASC bass traps and a unique little device called the Black Hole (http://www.spatialaudio.us/black-hole/) and the combination really helped to deal with that node. I have always had that node, and regardless of what speaker I've owned, it was a problem. So this is not an Alexia problem, this is a room problem. The final step to alleviate this problem was replacing my solid state monoblocks with tube amps. I had tried the D'Agostino Monos and the McIntosh 601's. Although I greatly enjoyed the sound of both, I found these big SS amps exacerbated the room node problem. Since switching to a pair of McIntosh 275's (mk6) and VAC phi200's, I have found the balance to be superb.

I listen to my Alexia's every day - and even yesterday I was saying to myself, "now, why are you selling these?" The sound is better than anything I've ever had in my room. Well, I am selling because I have enjoyed my experiences, learned a few things along the way and now want to experiment with high efficiency speakers and low powered SET and OTL amps.

I am a member of a 100+ member audiophile club here in Florida. Many members have high efficiency speakers/low powered SET systems and I've always been interested trying this combo. I have always wanted to try Volti's, Tannoy's and others. More importantly, I want to play with some sweet sounding, low powered SET and OTL amps. Does anyone here think driving Alexia's with an 8 watt 300b SET amp or 8 watt OTL amp is a good idea? I don't think so.

I was going to pull the trigger on a pair of Volti Vittora's, but decided to try a different, and somewhat radical new type of high efficiency speaker design - a full, point source open baffle speaker. As many people know, Linkwitz has championed a lot of the point source open baffle designs and fundamental concepts surrounding open baffle/dipole designs. Right on his heels has been Clayton Shaw - designing speakers since the 70's. I have always been a big fan of his designs. After selling and departing from Emerald Physics, Clayton went to work at his new company - Spatial Audio. Clayton has managed to create the first true, full range point source open baffle speaker. The Spatial Audio Lumina Statement is that speaker. No one outside of Clayton and a few others have seen it or heard it - mine will be the first production model built beyond the initial prototype. There are no pictures, but this link should provide the necessary specs and the models you see will give you an idea of the look: http://www.spatialaudio.us/lumina

So what if these Statement speakers aren't to my liking? I get my money back. Plain and simple. If that happens, then what? Greg at Volti will probably be getting a call. But I must say, the specs (100db efficient, benign 8 ohm load, down to 14hz) and the room friendly open baffle design has me intrigued.

As for amplification, I have ordered Roger Modjeski's (Music Reference) first OTL amp called the OTL-1. Roger has been designing and tweaking this design since the 80's. He confidently told me he has finally perfected his OTL design and it is ready for production. Once again, mine will be the first production OTL-1 off the line.

As for 300b SET amps, I'm seriously considering Allnic and a few others.....I even want to explore Shindo amps a little bit. The 2 watt/channel Woo Audio 45 amp also looks interesting. I will probably end up with 2 or 3 low powered SET/OTL amps to play with and rotate.

I do have a second system set up in my Family Room. That system consists of the Raidho D3 v2 speakers, all Ansuz cabling and I'm currently experimenting with amplification. I'm leaning toward Hegel....but I also enjoy VAC on Raidho. I have tried Rowland, Devialet, VAC, McIntosh, Cary, Hegel, Musical Fidelity and several others.

So as you can see, I enjoy the journey. There is NOTHING wrong with the Alexia's. NOTHING. This is about gaining experiences in this HOBBY. Will the high efficiency/low powered SET/OTL amp stop me in my tracks? Who knows....but I'm enjoying the ride and gaining invaluable experiences along the way.

If you're not into trying new gear and swapping gear - you will never ever understand the gear swapper - so don't try.

As for Bodhi and his continued love fest and defender for all things S5 and Vitus - I'm happy for him. If he has found his perfect system, great. I owned the Alexia's and S5's at the same time, with the same variety of gear and cables and I could never get the S5's to engage with me. They were the epitome of "HiFi". In my home, the VAC amps sounded the best on the S5....but once again, HiFi. Would things have been different with Vitus gear? Perhaps. I can certainly say every time I heard the Magico S series speakers with Vitus it was exceptionally good. And Bodhi - if your only exposure to the Alexia's was with ARC gear - it's no wonder you weren't a fan. I heard the Alexia's with a REF150/REF5SE and let's just say, the combo was not good at all.

And for the record, I was one of the first to audition the Q5 vs S5 (well over a year ago) and I got chastised for saying the S5 was a better speaker. Today, although not unanimous, that seems to be the general consensus. I also feel that the S3 is a better speaker than the S5. But then again, if I was the ultimate defender of all things S5, I probably wouldn't say that.

I think we can not forget that we do not listen to only to speakers , but to an whole system. Many times, our ideal speaker is not an excellent match with our electronics, and one of them has to go. As the electronics must use include cables, and many tweaking accessories, sometimes the easyier way is changing speakers.

The best overall speaker I have hosted were by far the Sonusfaber Aida's. However, they needed a lot of power and were a poor match with my electronics, and I was not prepared to change all the system. I love my current speakers, but I am not sure it was the best decision.

BTW, I feel that if you provide the Q5 with the proper electronics and system, they will eclipsate the S5. But it seems I am alone in this choice ...

 

[Priaptor]

There seems to be some interest in why I am selling my Alexia's and many are making the inference that there is something "wrong" with them or I don't like them. This couldn't be further from the truth. The Alexia's are by far the best all-around speaker I have had in my main listening room. They are incredibly balanced from top to bottom, producing just the right size of images, that famous Wilson midrange and the adjustability (propagation delay) to suit the room and listener is ideal. The decent efficiency of the Wilson's also lets you play with some different amps.

I've had my Alexia's for 8 months now and I listen to them every day. At the outset, I had to deal with the same old 73hz room node issue I've always had. I added some ASC bass traps and a unique little device called the Black Hole (http://www.spatialaudio.us/black-hole/) and the combination really helped to deal with that node. I have always had that node, and regardless of what speaker I've owned, it was a problem. So this is not an Alexia problem, this is a room problem. The final step to alleviate this problem was replacing my solid state monoblocks with tube amps. I had tried the D'Agostino Monos and the McIntosh 601's. Although I greatly enjoyed the sound of both, I found these big SS amps exacerbated the room node problem. Since switching to a pair of McIntosh 275's (mk6) and VAC phi200's, I have found the balance to be superb.

I listen to my Alexia's every day - and even yesterday I was saying to myself, "now, why are you selling these?" The sound is better than anything I've ever had in my room. Well, I am selling because I have enjoyed my experiences, learned a few things along the way and now want to experiment with high efficiency speakers and low powered SET and OTL amps.

I am a member of a 100+ member audiophile club here in Florida. Many members have high efficiency speakers/low powered SET systems and I've always been interested trying this combo. I have always wanted to try Volti's, Tannoy's and others. More importantly, I want to play with some sweet sounding, low powered SET and OTL amps. Does anyone here think driving Alexia's with an 8 watt 300b SET amp or 8 watt OTL amp is a good idea? I don't think so.

I was going to pull the trigger on a pair of Volti Vittora's, but decided to try a different, and somewhat radical new type of high efficiency speaker design - a full, point source open baffle speaker. As many people know, Linkwitz has championed a lot of the point source open baffle designs and fundamental concepts surrounding open baffle/dipole designs. Right on his heels has been Clayton Shaw - designing speakers since the 70's. I have always been a big fan of his designs. After selling and departing from Emerald Physics, Clayton went to work at his new company - Spatial Audio. Clayton has managed to create the first true, full range point source open baffle speaker. The Spatial Audio Lumina Statement is that speaker. No one outside of Clayton and a few others have seen it or heard it - mine will be the first production model built beyond the initial prototype. There are no pictures, but this link should provide the necessary specs and the models you see will give you an idea of the look: http://www.spatialaudio.us/lumina

So what if these Statement speakers aren't to my liking? I get my money back. Plain and simple. If that happens, then what? Greg at Volti will probably be getting a call. But I must say, the specs (100db efficient, benign 8 ohm load, down to 14hz) and the room friendly open baffle design has me intrigued.

As for amplification, I have ordered Roger Modjeski's (Music Reference) first OTL amp called the OTL-1. Roger has been designing and tweaking this design since the 80's. He confidently told me he has finally perfected his OTL design and it is ready for production. Once again, mine will be the first production OTL-1 off the line.

As for 300b SET amps, I'm seriously considering Allnic and a few others.....I even want to explore Shindo amps a little bit. The 2 watt/channel Woo Audio 45 amp also looks interesting. I will probably end up with 2 or 3 low powered SET/OTL amps to play with and rotate.

I do have a second system set up in my Family Room. That system consists of the Raidho D3 v2 speakers, all Ansuz cabling and I'm currently experimenting with amplification. I'm leaning toward Hegel....but I also enjoy VAC on Raidho. I have tried Rowland, Devialet, VAC, McIntosh, Cary, Hegel, Musical Fidelity and several others.

So as you can see, I enjoy the journey. There is NOTHING wrong with the Alexia's. NOTHING. This is about gaining experiences in this HOBBY. Will the high efficiency/low powered SET/OTL amp stop me in my tracks? Who knows....but I'm enjoying the ride and gaining invaluable experiences along the way.

If you're not into trying new gear and swapping gear - you will never ever understand the gear swapper - so don't try.

As for Bodhi and his continued love fest and defender for all things S5 and Vitus - I'm happy for him. If he has found his perfect system, great. I owned the Alexia's and S5's at the same time, with the same variety of gear and cables and I could never get the S5's to engage with me. They were the epitome of "HiFi". In my home, the VAC amps sounded the best on the S5....but once again, HiFi. Would things have been different with Vitus gear? Perhaps. I can certainly say every time I heard the Magico S series speakers with Vitus it was exceptionally good. And Bodhi - if your only exposure to the Alexia's was with ARC gear - it's no wonder you weren't a fan. I heard the Alexia's with a REF150/REF5SE and let's just say, the combo was not good at all.

And for the record, I was one of the first to audition the Q5 vs S5 (well over a year ago) and I got chastised for saying the S5 was a better speaker. Today, although not unanimous, that seems to be the general consensus. I also feel that the S3 is a better speaker than the S5. But then again, if I was the ultimate defender of all things S5, I probably wouldn't say that.

"I know the Alexia's aren't for everyone, but I am thrilled with mine. In my room and to my ears, they better all their predecessors in my system - Aida's, Strads, Raidho D3's, etc."

Mike,

I think that quotes says all. I could care less what you sell, what you buy but I must question the veracity of your opinion regarding any piece of audio equipment when on the one hand it is the greatest thing you have ever heard in your room, comparing it to some pretty amazing speakers and several months later it was a bad speaker for your room.

This forum as well as others are filled with people looking for A magic bullet and believe changing out gear is the way to do it. I respectfully disagree but to each his own.

Howie

 

[MylesBAstor]

I think we can not forget that we do not listen to only to speakers , but to an whole system. Many times, our ideal speaker is not an excellent match with our electronics, and one of them has to go. As the electronics must use include cables, and many tweaking accessories, sometimes the easyier way is changing speakers.


BTW, I feel that if you provide the Q5 with the proper electronics and system, they will eclipsate the S5. But it seems I am alone in this choice ...

Someone who will go unnamed said pretty much the same thing the other night after listening to the S5s set up in my system. S5s as optimized in my system might sound better than an "average" set up with a pair of the Q series.

 

[mbovaird]

"I know the Alexia's aren't for everyone, but I am thrilled with mine. In my room and to my ears, they better all their predecessors in my system - Aida's, Strads, Raidho D3's, etc."

Mike,

I think that quotes says all. I could care less what you sell, what you buy but I must question the veracity of your opinion regarding any piece of audio equipment when on the one hand it is the greatest thing you have ever heard in your room, comparing it to some pretty amazing speakers and several months later it was a bad speaker for your room.

This forum as well as others are filled with people looking for A magic bullet and believe changing out gear is the way to do it. I respectfully disagree but to each his own.

Howie

Who said it was a bad speaker for my room? Did you actually read my post?

 

[blbloom]

In their system, using the same equipment, same recordings and with thoroughly burned in speakers? And not at shows especially. Otherwise the conclusions are meaningless.

In theory, I agree. In practice, so dismissive. Do you read these forums?

 

[Priaptor]

Who said it was a bad speaker for my room? Did you actually read my post?

Yes I read your missive and you clearly state there is a mismatch with your room and the Alexia. But What Me Worry. Do what you want. Your money and time. It is not about me. Enjoy the ride.

 

[mbovaird]

Yes I read your missive and you clearly state there is a mismatch with your room and the Alexia. But What Me Worry. Do what you want. Your money and time. It is not about me. Enjoy the ride.

Obviously ignorant people like you will read into it whatever they want. Clearly, that is NOT what I said.

 

[KeithR]

And Bodhi - if your only exposure to the Alexia's was with ARC gear - it's no wonder you weren't a fan. I heard the Alexia's with a REF150/REF5SE and let's just say, the combo was not good at all.

+1. Wilson/ARC is one of the most overrated pairings in high end audio.

 

[KeithR]

Someone who will go unnamed said pretty much the same thing the other night after listening to the S5s set up in my system. S5s as optimized in my system might sound better than an "average" set up with a pair of the Q series.

Yes, and many times the Q series setups use Soulution or similar "fast" and what I consider, bleached-sounding electronics. I would much prefer to hear the S vs Q on tube amps or DarTZeel in the same room, such as yours.

What I have experienced is that the Q series has a more integrated driver system (better crossover) and I'd be curious on your S5 take since you've had them in your room for some time. I guess I'll read about it soon

 

[Priaptor]

Obviously ignorant people like you will read into it whatever they want. Clearly, that is NOT what I said.

I see, start with the insults. So the Alexias were great but really aren't at least not in your room, although they once were.

 

[jap]

I see, start with the insults. So the Alexias were great but really aren't at least not in your room, although they once were.

If someone used an insult like that on his Audio Shark forum they'd get banned.

 

[rbbert]

...This forum as well as others are filled with people looking for A magic bullet and believe changing out gear is the way to do it. I respectfully disagree but to each his own...

Those "gear changers" are a boon for the rest of us. They support the industry by buying lots of new gear and make lots of used gear in good condition available to the rest of us!

 

[BlueFox]

Those "gear changers" are a boon for the rest of us. They support the industry by buying lots of new gear and make lots of used gear in good condition available to the rest of us!

Yes. I bought Mike's S5s, and love them. Who cares if they are better/worse than the S3/Alexia. I didn't spend all this money on power, electronics, cables, and now speakers to worry if something else is a nuance better. I like to listen to music, and now it sounds pretty darn good, whether it is backgrond music, or a Friday night when I can sit back with a few beers and just drift away while listening. At this point, assuming something doesn't break, I am just saving my money to recoup all that I have spent over the last few years, and enjoying the music, and could care less if something else might reveal an obscure tone in the background that I never noticied before.

Also, basic reading comprehension skills shows Mike was as clear as could be in his explanation as to why he is moving away from the Alexia to high-efficency speakers, and low power amps. Talk about arguing over nothing.

 

[mbovaird]

Also, basic reading comprehension skills shows Mike was as clear as could be in his explanation as to why he is moving away from the Alexia to high-efficency speakers, and low power amps. Talk about arguing over nothing.

Well said Bud. I'm sure with your Pass amps they sound excellent.

 

[MylesBAstor]

In theory, I agree. In practice, so dismissive. Do you read these forums?

You're kidding me right? Many draw erroneous conclusions based on flawed data. That's as simple as it gets and many forget that basic axiom of high end audio.

 

[microstrip]

+1. Wilson/ARC is one of the most overrated pairings in high end audio.

A local audiophile has the Alexia with ARCREF40 and REF750 and it is really a great system.
I use them with the REF150 very successfuly , but I don't listen to loud rock.

 

[cannata]

I have been out of the Wilson camp for almost a year now, and looking back, I am amazed how foolish we can be.
As they say, if it walks like a duck and sound like one, it is probably a duck. It is amazing how many of issues I had, for 20 years, simply went away once I switched to the S5. No more chronic bass issues, glaring highs, narrow sweet spots, uneven midrange, cloudy upper base, etc. I definitely spent less money on the my system this year, not needing to constantly look for ways to tame all the issues I had before. The funny thing is that if you actually look at all the objective data available on the Wilson, you can clearly see all the problem we are all suffering from, yet we refuse to admit it to ourselves, and even worse, we dare to call this "musical", so silly. It is not the rooms, nor the amps nor the cables, it is simply the duck

 

[Bruce B]

It is not the rooms, nor the amps nor the cables, it is simply the duck.

 

[KeithR]

A local audiophile has the Alexia with ARCREF40 and REF750 and it is really a great system.
I use them with the REF150 very successfuly , but I don't listen to loud rock.

and i actually respect your opinion, Microstrip. instead of saying its overrated, perhaps I should have said I've just not heard a successful pairing.

 

[mep]

Those "gear changers" are a boon for the rest of us. They support the industry by buying lots of new gear and make lots of used gear in good condition available to the rest of us!

I know a couple of people that Fed Ex and UPS trucks couldn't pass their house with a full tank of gas. They buy more gear in a week than most audiophiles buy in 10 years. Even if there was actually a day when the Fed Ex or UPS driver didn't actually have a delivery for them, they would stop out of habit at their house.