Monoblock Amps for Magico S5 MKII

[analog2analog]

Hi:

I am looking for amplifier recommendation, solid state monoblock only, for Magico S5 MKII loudspeakers. Because Magico S5 MKII are from previous generation series, I believe many members have already tried many amplifier combinations and have already found out what works and what not. Preamplifier will be Ayre Acoustics KX-R Twenty.

I have not heard any of these but based on internet research I have shortlisted,

Ayre MX-R Twenty monoblocks

Parasound JC1+ monoblocks

Pass Labs X600.8 monoblocks

BHK Mono 600 monoblocks

McIntosh MC1.25KW monoblocks

Nagra HD Amps monoblocks (used pair due to price)

Luxman M-10X as monoblocks (bridged, not true monoblock)

MSB M205 monoblocks (very low input impedance of 1000 Ohm)

I am looking for SET like immediacy but with all the power that Magico S5 MKII need for clean crescendos (I listen at fairly loud levels); without the hassle of tubes and their shortcomings.

Thanks

 

[GSOphile]

I've had a Luxman M-10X (stereo) with Magico S3 MkIIs and now S3 2023s and like it a lot. Very refined, dynamic sound. I'm sure the bridged monos would be very satisfying. My preamp is an Esoteric C1X solo, which mates well with the Lux.

 

[TDX]

Among your list, I’ll choose passlabs. However if you willing to pay more, s5 will let you hear the differences.

 

[Paul1960]

At Axpona in 2023 Luxman was showing off the M-10X as bridged monoblocs with what I believe were the Magico S5 speakers and that system was a standout for me at the show. If I am misremembering the specific models I hope somebody will correct me. That was the first and only time I have loved the sound of Magico's which I'm sure puts me in the minority LOL.

 

[exupgh12]

Of the above

Luxman (M900u, M10x) are very good with magic as those amps don't have problem going low (2 ohm in mono block, and 1ohm in stereo)

Pass 600.8 is good but its on the worm side, not for me.

MSB 205 are o.k (with magic, great with other speakers), they don't dive low as 2ohm which Magico's needs

Not on your list - Pillium, great with Magico. CH A, M1.1- to sterile to my taste. Solution 5XX - some like it, I don't.

 

[analog2analog]

Thanks for all the help and comments; please keep posting.

Luxman
I am leaning towards it due to many recommendations. I emailed Luxman and Luxman America, Inc. could not provide continuous power rating for 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman only specify instantaneous power rating in lower impedances in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman japan never replied.

I fear, in bridged mono operation the famous luxurious sound (due to 2nd harmonic as per Stereophile measurements) will suffer as bridged operation cancels even order harmonics but leaves odd order harmonics untouched.

Consumer industry standard gain is 26 dB, which is already high as we all use the preamplifiers to attenuate (and not amplify) the signal for normal listening levels. In bridged mono operation Luxman gain is 35 dB; does this lead to noisy background and compress dynamics?

Just my theoretical fears; please refute with your personal experiences.

Pass Labs
For Pass Labs X600.8 monoblocks; can someone please help me understand, "warm". My experience is limited. Does warm mean a tilt in frequency response such that either high frequencies are recessed or mid-range is pronounced? Or does warm mean an amplifier which is not resolving enough and losing the subtle details? Or the amplifier is not transparent and has some kind of coloring?

Called Pass Labs and they strictly claim that the idle power consumption for a pair is indeed 1,200 watts; I believe heat output would be at least 1,000 watts. Pass Labs told me that the first 80 watts (40 watts for 4 ohm) are Class A; online reviewers believe it is 50 watts (25 watts for 4 ohm).


MSB
I called MSB and they claim that M205 will indeed double down to 400 watts in 4 ohm; for 2 ohm it is just instantaneous power. MSB claims not to use any negative feedback, neither global and nor local; a very unique claim in today’s SS amplifiers. They claim no negative feedback of any kind makes their amplifiers very natural sounding. I have not heard MSB thus please share your impressions

 

[Paul1960]

Thanks for all the help and comments; please keep posting.

Luxman
I am leaning towards it due to many recommendations. I emailed Luxman and Luxman America, Inc. could not provide continuous power rating for 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman only specify instantaneous power rating in lower impedances in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman japan never replied.

I fear, in bridged mono operation the famous luxurious sound (due to 2nd harmonic as per Stereophile measurements) will suffer as bridged operation cancels even order harmonies but leaves odd order harmonies untouched.

Consumer industry standard gain is 26 dB, which is already high as we all use the preamplifiers to attenuate (and not amplify) the signal for normal listening levels. In bridged mono operation Luxman gain is 35 dB; does this lead to noisy background and compress dynamics?

Just my theoretical fears; please refute with your personal experiences.

Pass Labs
For Pass Labs X600.8 monoblocks; can someone please help me understand, "warm". My experience is limited. Does warm means a tilt in frequency response such that either high frequencies are recessed or mid-range is pronounced? Or does warm means an amplifier which is not resolving enough and losing the subtle details? Or the amplifier is not transparent and has some kind of coloring?

Called Pass Labs and they strictly claim that the idle power consumption for a pair is indeed 1,200 watts; I believe heat output would be at least 1,000 watts. Pass Labs told me that the first 80 watts (40 watts for 4 ohm) are Class A; online reviewers believe it is 50 watts (25 watts for 4 ohm).


MSB
I called MSB and they claim that M205 will indeed double down to 400 watts in 4 ohm; for 2 ohm it is just instantaneous power. MSB claims not to use any negative feedback, neither global and nor local; a very unique claim in today’s SS amplifiers. They claim no negative feedback of any kind makes their amplifiers very natural sounding. I have not heard MSB thus please share your impressions

35 dB of gain should be a genuine concern. I have a Plinius SA 103 that I find almost unusable because of it's high gain which I'm guessing is a bit less than that. I believe my Audio Research Ref 5SE preamp sounds worse when it is forced to attenuate the signal below its volume level of 20 and certainly the adjustments become coarse below that level.

 

[TDX]

Thanks for all the help and comments; please keep posting.

Luxman
I am leaning towards it due to many recommendations. I emailed Luxman and Luxman America, Inc. could not provide continuous power rating for 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman only specify instantaneous power rating in lower impedances in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman japan never replied.

I fear, in bridged mono operation the famous luxurious sound (due to 2nd harmonic as per Stereophile measurements) will suffer as bridged operation cancels even order harmonics but leaves odd order harmonics untouched.

Consumer industry standard gain is 26 dB, which is already high as we all use the preamplifiers to attenuate (and not amplify) the signal for normal listening levels. In bridged mono operation Luxman gain is 35 dB; does this lead to noisy background and compress dynamics?

Just my theoretical fears; please refute with your personal experiences.

Pass Labs
For Pass Labs X600.8 monoblocks; can someone please help me understand, "warm". My experience is limited. Does warm mean a tilt in frequency response such that either high frequencies are recessed or mid-range is pronounced? Or does warm mean an amplifier which is not resolving enough and losing the subtle details? Or the amplifier is not transparent and has some kind of coloring?

Called Pass Labs and they strictly claim that the idle power consumption for a pair is indeed 1,200 watts; I believe heat output would be at least 1,000 watts. Pass Labs told me that the first 80 watts (40 watts for 4 ohm) are Class A; online reviewers believe it is 50 watts (25 watts for 4 ohm).


MSB
I called MSB and they claim that M205 will indeed double down to 400 watts in 4 ohm; for 2 ohm it is just instantaneous power. MSB claims not to use any negative feedback, neither global and nor local; a very unique claim in today’s SS amplifiers. They claim no negative feedback of any kind makes their amplifiers very natural sounding. I have not heard MSB thus please share your impressions

Warm refers to sounds a bit thicker, not sterile. Sometimes is a good thing, sometimes too much colouring. I quite like Pass when I was owning them. I had 260.8, not powerful enough for my S5. 600.8 would be nice.

 

[exupgh12]

Thanks for all the help and comments; please keep posting.

Luxman
I am leaning towards it due to many recommendations. I emailed Luxman and Luxman America, Inc. could not provide continuous power rating for 4 ohm and 2 ohm loads in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman only specify instantaneous power rating in lower impedances in bridged (monaural) configuration. Luxman japan never replied.

Disappointing replay from luxman America
From Luxman website:

Instantaneous max. output	1,200W + 1,200W (1Ω)/at stereo 2,400W (2Ω)/at monaural M-10X | POWER AMPLIFIERS | PRODUCTS | LUXMAN | Seeking higher sound quality luxman.com

I fear, in bridged mono operation the famous luxurious sound (due to 2nd harmonic as per Stereophile measurements) will suffer as bridged operation cancels even order harmonics but leaves odd order harmonics untouched.

Consumer industry standard gain is 26 dB, which is already high as we all use the preamplifiers to attenuate (and not amplify) the signal for normal listening levels. In bridged mono operation Luxman gain is 35 dB; does this lead to noisy background and compress dynamics?

Just my theoretical fears; please refute with your personal experiences.

except for myself (Six years of Luxman Magico - S3mk2, S3mk3, S5mk3) I know several Luxman\Magico owners, and I have no issue running Luxman in a monaural bridge with Magico - as the specification indicates on the Luxman website.

Pass Labs
For Pass Labs X600.8 monoblocks; can someone please help me understand, "warm". My experience is limited. Does warm mean a tilt in frequency response such that either high frequencies are recessed or mid-range is pronounced? Or does warm mean an amplifier which is not resolving enough and losing the subtle details? Or the amplifier is not transparent and has some kind of coloring?

Called Pass Labs and they strictly claim that the idle power consumption for a pair is indeed 1,200 watts; I believe heat output would be at least 1,000 watts. Pass Labs told me that the first 80 watts (40 watts for 4 ohm) are Class A; online reviewers believe it is 50 watts (25 watts for 4 ohm).


MSB
I called MSB and they claim that M205 will indeed double down to 400 watts in 4 ohm; for 2 ohm it is just instantaneous power.

Their website says something else https://msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/m205-amplifier-support/ from 200 to 380, this is not double.
if there is a manufacturer that is conserved on the spec it is Luxman, I suggest you look at the Stereophile measurement of the M10x https://www.stereophile.com/content/luxman-m-10x-power-amplifier-measurements

 

[TDX]

Luxman bridge mode provide more power but introduces more noise. I suggest you only consider one amp. Not two. They are not monos.

 

[pweg]

Simaudio Moon ?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I ran bridged M900s with C900 pre for almost four years (?) into Magico A5s. They work great and they sound great. Really great.

I had better luck with a response from Japan and the US group before purchasing the A5s: they said no problem, play what you like and they'll be great. The A5s have a dip somewhere in the 40s (from memory) so they said just avoid a test CD at loud volumes that lingers at that frequency. Since I listen to music and not test sweeps, I bought the A5s. Still have them.

I have read posts about Luxman bridging being inadequate, having issues, etc. but those posts always seem to be theoretical in nature, rather than actual users describing issues. I never had an issue and I loved the sound. Loved the sound, both stereo and bridged.

Last summer, it just so happens, I sold the Luxmans. I could have kept them forever. I considered the newer version too, but through a series of events, I ended up at WestminsterLabs (which are terrific bridged--I have four), but again: I was well pleased with the Luxy. Good Luck!

 

[analog2analog]

Disappointing replay from luxman America
From Luxman website:

Instantaneous max. output	1,200W + 1,200W (1Ω)/at stereo 2,400W (2Ω)/at monaural M-10X | POWER AMPLIFIERS | PRODUCTS | LUXMAN | Seeking higher sound quality luxman.com

except for myself (Six years of Luxman Magico - S3mk2, S3mk3, S5mk3) I know several Luxman\Magico owners, and I have no issue running Luxman in a monaural bridge with Magico - as the specification indicates on the Luxman website.


Their website says something else https://msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/m205-amplifier-support/ from 200 to 380, this is not double.
if there is a manufacturer that is conserved on the spec it is Luxman, I suggest you look at the Stereophile measurement of the M10x https://www.stereophile.com/content/luxman-m-10x-power-amplifier-measurements

Thank you so much for all the help with Luxman.

From you personal experience, do you have any issue with volume control (not able to use much range or granularity in control) with Luxman C900u preamplifier on mono Luxman M900u amplifiers (they also have gain of 35dB in mono mode)?

I checked again and MSB 202 which is stereo amplifier is rated at 380 watts in 4 ohm but MSB 205 mono amplifier (stereo and mono look 100% similar) is rated at 400 watts in 4 ohm.

 

[analog2analog]

Simaudio Moon ?

Thank you. Are you recommending a particular model which you have personally tried with some Magico loudspeakers?

 

[analog2analog]

...I ran bridged M900s with C900 pre for almost four years (?) into Magico A5s. They work great and they sound great. Really great......

So you never ran into any issue with volume control (not able to use much range or granularity in control) with Luxman C900u preamplifier on mono Luxman M900u amplifiers? What about any hum/hiss noise from tweeters due to that enormous gain?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...no issues with volume. No hiss at my place.

 

[exupgh12]

Thank you so much for all the help with Luxman.

From you personal experience, do you have any issue with volume control (not able to use much range or granularity in control) with Luxman C900u preamplifier on mono Luxman M900u amplifiers (they also have gain of 35dB in mono mode)?

No I don’t have any issues. C900u works greatly with M900u monos, as C10x with M10x mono. Both preforming greatly with any Magico speakers from A1 to M6

I check again and MSB 202 which is stereo amplifier is rated at 380 watts in 4 ohm but MSB 205 mono amplifier (stereo and mono look 100% similar) is rated at 400 watts in 4 ohm.

but can it go low to 2ohm, Magico S series MK2 love to deep to lower then 3ohm. If it was MK3 then the 205 won’t have any issues and can sound great with the newer S series. Just add an msb dac and you have full system.

 

[exupgh12]

What about any hum/hiss noise from tweeters due to that enormous gain?

were did you hear such thing?
My system is dead quite and I can tell you Magico CTO, Yaier has visit my home many times. My system is dead quite, and so is other Luxman systems based on 900 or 10 I’m familiar with.

 

[analog2analog]

Thanks for all the responses. Among all the amplifier I have shortlisted, it seems either the Luxman crowd is the happiest or other amplifiers have not been tried with Magico loudspeakers yet; a very rare possibility considering how we like to try amplifiers.

Any personal experiences of Magico with Ayre, Parasound, Pass Labs, PS Audio, McIntosh?