Magico S5 vs Wilson Alexia

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Re the friend who paid 1%- 2 questions.

1) Did he purchase the actual speakers he auditioned for $500. discount, OR were they demos, and those speakers had to be lugged back to the dealership, new speakers ordered, and then delivered- all for $500?
2) If he had not purchased the Alexias (or the Magicos), what are the dealers obligations to the NEXT interested buyer of those same speakers? I would want to know that the speakers I was purchasing had been auditioned by another individual for 10 days- not under any environment totally controlled by the dealer, wouldn't you? I'm sure the warranty would be complete, but I would have to think long and hard about putting that much of my hard earned money into a used speaker.
As it was, it worked out great for both the dealer and customer. I'm not so sure that would be the norm, knowing how much tire kicking goes around in the audio business. Perhaps the said dealer could comment on how he/she would handle such a scenario. Worst case scenario can happen and bite the businessman all too often.

1. He bought the pair that he auditioned. He actually may have actually had them in his system for less than ten days. I can't remember.
2. I can not speculate about dealers' obligations or what other potential future buyers might think of such an arrangement.

I thought most dealers have demo units that go out for auditions. Admittedly, this is harder for large and heavy speakers. I certainly see demo units for sale all the time at a discount. Perhaps they are units that never actually leave the store until they are sold. I can't speak to that.

In my particular case, I've auditioned all of my electronics for up to two weeks in my system before buying. I auditioned my cables for three weeks before buying. These components were either new or demos. My other components I bought either new or used, having heard them extensively elsewhere, but not in my own system.
 
Re the friend who paid 1%- 2 questions.

1) Did he purchase the actual speakers he auditioned for $500. discount, OR were they demos, and those speakers had to be lugged back to the dealership, new speakers ordered, and then delivered- all for $500?
2) If he had not purchased the Alexias (or the Magicos), what are the dealers obligations to the NEXT interested buyer of those same speakers? I would want to know that the speakers I was purchasing had been auditioned by another individual for 10 days- not under any environment totally controlled by the dealer, wouldn't you? I'm sure the warranty would be complete, but I would have to think long and hard about putting that much of my hard earned money into a used speaker.
As it was, it worked out great for both the dealer and customer. I'm not so sure that would be the norm, knowing how much tire kicking goes around in the audio business. Perhaps the said dealer could comment on how he/she would handle such a scenario. Worst case scenario can happen and bite the businessman all too often.

As I am the friend PeterA mentioned, I'll try to answer...

1) First some background. I've done this multiple times. I do my research on speakers, listen to them at the dealer, try to extrapolate how they will work in my home, but ultimately I don't want to pay full retail for a pair of speakers only to find I've made a costly mistake. I also don't want to waste any dealer's time and effort. So when it gets to the point where I'm very serious, I discuss the price with the dealer and ask if I can pay a fee to audition their demos in my home. If it doesn't work out, we remain friends and I am happy to pay the fee to have avoided making a mistake (and at the same time not feel bad about the effort the dealer made).

I did this with Wilson Sashas, Rockports (forget the model but it competed with Sashas) and Wilson Alexias. I did not buy the Rockports but I did purchase of Sashas (ordered a new pair) as a result of the in-home demo. I also purchased a pair of Alexias based on the in-home audition but ended up buying the demo pair as it was the exact color I wanted and the dealer was amenable.

2) You assume that the next prospective buyer is purchasing the dealer's demo pair. This isn't normally the case - customers usually order a new pair. When the demo pair is eventually sold, it is usually sold at a discount because it is a used speaker and often moved around a lot within the store (obviously this would vary depending whether the dealer had a room dedicated to that speaker or not).
 
As the Op of this thread, I thought I should provide a brief update. When I started the thread, I was torn between these two speakers for my main reference system. I had spent the better part of 6 months traveling across the country listening to each speaker in different environments. An in home demo was just not an option.

I also spent a good deal of time listening to the Q1, Q3, Q5's (never Q7's). I wanted to understand the love affair many have with this speaker. But alas, it was not for me. Very unemotional speakers IMO. They just seem to be too perfect. Music is NOT a perfect science - it's an art. I've played the saxophone for over 30 years, and we have a saying after playing a wrong note "it was close enough for jazz". The Q series - to me - just tries to be TOO perfect. It's an incredible speaker, but one which never excited the emotions in me. YMMV.

I also listened to a variety of other speakers from Rockport to Focal to Vivid and countless others. I was fortunate along the way to hear the Alexia's and S5's in different rooms, with different amps and this helped me narrow my selection down to these outstanding speakers.

So what happened? Well, at the end of the day, I ended up buying both the Wilson Alexia's and Magico S5's. Let me tell you, this was not the plan, but after disappointments with the Raidho D3's (mid-bass problems and woofer popping at >95db), I decided these weren't the speakers for me - even in my second (Family Room) system. So I sold the D3's and bought the Alexia's AND S5's.

Both speakers come expertly packed in wooden crates. The Wilson experience however, was as good as any new speaker purchasing experience I have had. From the impeccable packaging of the Alexia's, to the "tweak ability" of the Alexia for room, sitting position, sitting height, distance, etc., to the incredibly detailed owners manual (my S5 didn't even come with an owners manual), to all the little things Wilson does - like a divider between the positive/negative on the binding posts (so they don't accidentally touch), to the fuses/capacitors that Wilson uses to protect the drivers, to the protective coating and wrapping Wilson applies to all new speakers so when you peel that back on your new speakers - they will be pristine, to the fact that Wilson breaks in all drivers prior to placing them in the cabinets (vs 1000+ of hours of break in for the S5's), to the fact that Wilson dealers are required to provide professional setup, to the fact that Wilson speakers come on wheels for easily moving around for setup during break-in and the list goes on and on. And, at the end of the day, sonically, they have exceeded my expectations!

So what's the preliminary verdict ? Well, after listening to both speakers, trying a variety of different amps - Accuphase, McIntosh, VAC, D'Agostino, etc. - I MUCH prefer the Alexia's. There is no doubt that the S5's are an engineering and mechanical marvel, but they are not nearly as musical or natural sounding as the Alexia's - IMO. To me, in my home, in my system, the Alexia's sound more like music and less like a mechanical/engineering experiment. When I listen to the Alexia's, I am engrossed in the music. When I listen to the Magico's, I'm thinking about mechanics and engineering. Simply, I'm listening to the speakers and not the music.

NOW - this is not to say the S5's aren't terrific speakers - they ARE, and if they weren't my top two finalists after months of auditioning, I wouldn't have bought both! For now, I am keeping both. I may end up moving the S5's for the Sasha 2's - we shall see.

Also - as I mentioned above, this is my preliminary opinion because, in the spirit of full disclosure, the S5's are not fully broken in (that apparently occurs north of 1000 hours) - so I will reserve final judgement until that point in time. Would I be surprised to see the S5's trump the Alexia's even after 1000 hours? Yes. I've heard fully broken in S5's many many times - they are outstanding, but I still much prefer the Alexia's (but wasn't sure until now).

But regardless, is it even fair to compare a $50,000 speaker to a $30,000 speaker? Probably not. But keep in mind, the same $50,000 speaker bettered a $70,000 speaker (D3) and a $120,000 speaker (Aida's) - in MY system.

I will say this, the Alexia's are VERY particular with proper setup. With the incredible adjustability of the Wilson midrange/tweeter height angle/depth comes a responsibility to properly set them up and dial them in. You can't just plop them down and start listening. You must start with finding and marking the ZON (Zone of Neutrality) in your room and what worked best in my room was to work within this ZON.

I'm also talking laser measurer required. A dealer who knows what they are doing and a customer who reads the Alexia manual, reads it again and then reads it again can accomplish great things. Proper attention to room treatments may, or more likely will be required. I am amazed at how many Wilson owners "just let the dealer do it." Your dealer is not you. He/she can get you close, but you are the final arbiter of setup and what sounds good to you. Read the manual! It's insanely good and informative.

Now, on the other hand, the S5's weren't as fussy for pin point laser accurate setup or treatments. They sounded good in a variety of positions sans treatments (close to the back wall, away from the back wall, etc.)

Lastly, I will admit, my opinion formed prior to owning both speakers was that the Alexia's would be more difficult to pair with amps, and the S5's would be easy. I actually found the opposite to be the case. No matter what I put on the Alexia's, they always sound great. The S5's seem to be a little more particular with amp choices.

Finally, I did not post this update to start mud slinging between the Wilson and Magico camps. Both are EXCELLENT speakers and I could live happily with either speaker with tweaks here and there and be over the moon with my choice. I can also completely understand why some folks marvel in the mechanics and engineering of the Magico speakers. We have Magico to thank for pushing the envelope of what speakers can reproduce. It is my opinion that Magico is the leader in speaker engineering design and advancement and pushing the market to build better. But in this case, in my system, to my ears, the Alexia's are the best speakers I've ever owned and I am delighted with this amazing product David, his son Daryl and the entire Wilson team have produced.
 
What a great comparison of the two. Very civilized and thought out. Congrats!
 
Great write up, Mike! Thanks for sharing.
 
Very nice post, Mike. Your comments go inline with the Martin Colloms reviews in HifiCritic in many aspects. But the more important lesson to learn should be that you can not have a system that simultaneously optimizes the performance of two speakers so different . MC said it in his blog - he had to to turn his system up-side-down to test in a fair way the S5.

I have no doubt that with a suitable system the engineering and mechanical marvel, could become musical and natural sounding. IMHO , probably not as much as the Alexia, as both manufacturers are experts and experienced in their areas and optimize the resources that can be available at the price of each of the speakers, and here the Alexia has an advantage.

A final note since your referred to the Aida's : just because a speaker betters another in a system and room does not make it a better speaker - the Alexia is playing fantastic in my room, but IMHO the Aida was a better overall speaker.
 
Mike--

Thank you for one of the all time great posts. Extremely well written. I really enjoyed reading about your journey.

Steve, can we make this a sticky!
 
As I am the friend PeterA mentioned, I'll try to answer...

1) First some background. I've done this multiple times. I do my research on speakers, listen to them at the dealer, try to extrapolate how they will work in my home, but ultimately I don't want to pay full retail for a pair of speakers only to find I've made a costly mistake. I also don't want to waste any dealer's time and effort. So when it gets to the point where I'm very serious, I discuss the price with the dealer and ask if I can pay a fee to audition their demos in my home. If it doesn't work out, we remain friends and I am happy to pay the fee to have avoided making a mistake (and at the same time not feel bad about the effort the dealer made).

I did this with Wilson Sashas, Rockports (forget the model but it competed with Sashas) and Wilson Alexias. I did not buy the Rockports but I did purchase of Sashas (ordered a new pair) as a result of the in-home demo. I also purchased a pair of Alexias based on the in-home audition but ended up buying the demo pair as it was the exact color I wanted and the dealer was amenable.

2) You assume that the next prospective buyer is purchasing the dealer's demo pair. This isn't normally the case - customers usually order a new pair. When the demo pair is eventually sold, it is usually sold at a discount because it is a used speaker and often moved around a lot within the store (obviously this would vary depending whether the dealer had a room dedicated to that speaker or not).

That process sounds ideal and is well worth the fee for demo. The issue I would run into is speaker size. Home Demoing an XLF, Arrakis or Q7 is pretty difficult to pull off due to their massive size, weight and time required for setup.
 
Mike, an excellent write up !
 
Very nice post, Mike. Your comments go inline with the Martin Colloms reviews in HifiCritic in many aspects. But the more important lesson to learn should be that you can not have a system that simultaneously optimizes the performance of two speakers so different . MC said it in his blog - he had to to turn his system up-side-down to test in a fair way the S5.

I have no doubt that with a suitable system the engineering and mechanical marvel, could become musical and natural sounding. IMHO , probably not as much as the Alexia, as both manufacturers are experts and experienced in their areas and optimize the resources that can be available at the price of each of the speakers, and here the Alexia has an advantage.

A final note since your referred to the Aida's : just because a speaker betters another in a system and room does not make it a better speaker - the Alexia is playing fantastic in my room, but IMHO the Aida was a better overall speaker.

Microstrip,
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Please say more.

Here we have a long thread with thousands of hits. And it contains some major fallacies. Reality is neither speaker is better than the other. People are just arguing about preferences. It may as well be called “Steak vs. Seafood”. Some guys prefer meat while others prefer fish. Furthermore, some audiophiles will like Alexias with low powered tube amps while others will prefer them with high powered SS amps, and everything in between. Personally, I will take $600 B&W speaker and run it with my VTL 750’s over any Magico Q series. Some one will take that Q series and run it with Spectral, and be blissful. Michael Fremer has always liked his Wilson with big SS amps, and that’s my preference also. I cannot imagine running inefficient Wilson models with low powered tubes, but others seem to be happy.

Despite the hype, I don’t believe either of these speakers is as transparent as their fans and friends in the media claim. They have their own strong characters, as does every single speaker on the market. I am not convinced that if you run the Wilson with Spectral or Chord, etc., you will get a Magico. And I am not convinced that if you run a Magico with a VAC or a Macintosh, you will get a Wilson. You will get something warmer, but ... (For those of you who believe Magico has ultimate transparency, listen to a Soundlab PX model with Atmasphere or CAT amps, and you will have a new definition of transparency! Sorry, but Jon Valin and Doug Fritz did not do their homework. They have been parroting what Alon Wolf told them at the factory, and the urban legend has been going around unchallenged.)

So please elaborate, as I am curious about what you are saying.
 
Microstrip,
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Please say more.

Here we have a long thread with thousands of hits. And it contains some major fallacies. Reality is neither speaker is better than the other. People are just arguing about preferences. It may as well be called “Steak vs. Seafood”. Some guys prefer meat while others prefer fish. Furthermore, some audiophiles will like Alexias with low powered tube amps while others will prefer them with high powered SS amps, and everything in between. Personally, I will take $600 B&W speaker and run it with my VTL 750’s over any Magico Q series. Some one will take that Q series and run it with Spectral, and be blissful. Michael Fremer has always liked his Wilson with big SS amps, and that’s my preference also. I cannot imagine running inefficient Wilson models with low powered tubes, but others seem to be happy.

Despite the hype, I don’t believe either of these speakers is as transparent as their fans and friends in the media claim. They have their own strong characters, as does every single speaker on the market. I am not convinced that if you run the Wilson with Spectral or Chord, etc., you will get a Magico. And I am not convinced that if you run a Magico with a VAC or a Macintosh, you will get a Wilson. You will get something warmer, but ... (For those of you who believe Magico has ultimate transparency, listen to a Soundlab PX model with Atmasphere or CAT amps, and you will have a new definition of transparency! Sorry, but Jon Valin and Doug Fritz did not do their homework. They have been parroting what Alon Wolf told them at the factory, and the urban legend has been going around unchallenged.)

So please elaborate, as I am curious about what you are saying.

Caesar,

Considering the part of your post I quoted in bold, I fear nothing I can add will please your curiosity. Can I ask what is your current system? May be I will be able to understand better your strong feelings about Magico Q series. BTW, I still own SoundLab PX's and had them for long with Atmasphere.
 
Caesar,

Considering the part of your post I quoted in bold, I fear nothing I can add will please your curiosity. Can I ask what is your current system? May be I will be able to understand better your strong feelings about Magico Q series. BTW, I still own SoundLab PX's and had them for long with Atmasphere.

Hi Microstrip,

I own several. One of the fallacies I find in this thread is that there is just "one" speaker that meets all needs, all recordings, music types, etc. I own the small B&W monitors I mentioned above. They sound killer with big tube amps! Over the holidays, some of my relatives were choking up listening to music our grandmother used to sing to us. I also own the Soundlab A1-PX, which excels with smaller scale music and vocals. I also own the MBL 101, which is a time machine for large scale classical, blues, and classic rock shows.

Maybe it's just me, but to me all of these designs sound very different and distinct based on the design philosophies, trade-offs, and compromises made by the respective engineers.
 
I'm with the nola baby grand . The alexia is just not enough air to the details. Its on the dark side of neutral.
Now maybe it's I'm used to infinitys .

Al
 
I'm with the nola baby grand . The alexia is just not enough air to the details. Its on the dark side of neutral.
Now maybe it's I'm used to infinitys .

Al

I'm with you on that one.

I also would encourage all Magico fans to hear it, just to experience. Now I know everyone is set in their views and tastes, but it's one thing to talk about about an inert cabinet, and another not to have a cabinet! (At least in the top part of the speaker.)

It may be a revelation!!!
 
Another great comp for these 2 speakers in the thread title is the Kef Blade. You will need to Sub-woof that baby. But the Kef is much more of a chameleon than either of the incumbents. Add something like Spectral or Chord to the Kef, and you have a speaker comparable to the Q5. Add something warmer, and you have a Wilson Max 4. Add a Macintosh or Electrocompaniet amp, and you have something like a Sonus Faber.

And at half the price! Now that's value.
 
Why not the V3 it has all the benefits of magico plus a softdome(although ringradiator ) like the alexia ,and keep the change , that's definitively a underrated design
Remember any manufacturer has to update/redesign his productline once in a while , not necessarily for the better every time imo.
It also looks better I am not such a fan of wide baffles as they have the tendency to become boxy sounding , for looks id say alexia.
Wilson stuff is very well executioned , although magico as well off course , instead magico wears its beauty on the inside especially the Q series

This review also pretty much clears up the difference between simpler fairly off the shelf looking units of the alexia mid/woofers (although with extra magnets added? for increased magnetic fields) compared to the more self engineerd magico ones , it seems the quality differences aren't that great for the listener .
After all magnet voicecoil membrane designs both operate with lightspeed essentially (electromagnetic force ) so the diffs cant be that great imo , as the basic driving force is still the same

Another conclusion papercomposite mids are among the most natural sounding in the bizz
 
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Labor costs may be similar between the two brands, but there is some discussion about parts costs being considerably different. Regardless, and this may be obvious to all, the best way to evaluate the differences between the S5 and the Sasha 2 is to hear them both in your system, if possible. That way you will know for sure which you prefer.
+1
 
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