MartinLogan Neolith May 2015 T.H.E. Show Report
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Just to be clear, it wasn't the video I disliked, it was the demo music.
Go ahead, flog me.
I'm not sure you've noticed Herlequin but STFU is pretty unacceptable, unwarranted and disrespectful. Your criticisms are skewed. And you are the one who has definitely ruined the course of the thread.
Try and be nice. It is only a hobby. There's plenty of scope for anyone to remark on Neoliths directly only most here have chosen not to on this particular thread.
I didn't post the video that started what you see as thread drift anyway. You did.
Try and be nice. It is only a hobby. There's plenty of scope for anyone to remark on Neoliths directly only most here have chosen not to on this particular thread.
I didn't post the video that started what you see as thread drift anyway. You did.
Harlequin, thank you for trying to keep the thread on track. I appreciate your effort but I am not at all troubled by a comparative discussion of two other planar speakers which compete directly with the Neolith. I think such comparable speakers are relevant to evaluating the Neolith.
I discussed them at length on the ML forum Ron on a number of threads.
Basically I really liked it at Munich. I, like you, would probably end up driving it with tubes, and not the Moon electronics that was used at the show. Or possibly a tube pre and alternative solid state power amps if I found them really power hungry in practise.
Very nice build quality. I also think they look fantastic in grey. Quite dynamic for an electrostat - much more so than the CLX. Much better off-axis that any Summit or below hybrid, probably due to the panel size? That's quite an important point I feel. The smaller hybrids have a very small sweet spot.
They are quite pricey though and some feel they cost way too much for what they are. That said, compared to what else was available at Munich 2014 I feel they held up well on price grounds, given the absurd prices charged elsewhere.
Basically I really liked it at Munich. I, like you, would probably end up driving it with tubes, and not the Moon electronics that was used at the show. Or possibly a tube pre and alternative solid state power amps if I found them really power hungry in practise.
Very nice build quality. I also think they look fantastic in grey. Quite dynamic for an electrostat - much more so than the CLX. Much better off-axis that any Summit or below hybrid, probably due to the panel size? That's quite an important point I feel. The smaller hybrids have a very small sweet spot.
They are quite pricey though and some feel they cost way too much for what they are. That said, compared to what else was available at Munich 2014 I feel they held up well on price grounds, given the absurd prices charged elsewhere.
Very interesting! If I buy them I would order them in the Meteor Grey. They are surprisingly dynamic. I am quite excited for more WBF members to hear them.
There are some slight negs, though, I think. Whist the bass integration is done well, the bass only emanates from the bottom third of the speaker. Consequently, I think you can detect a sort of "thinness" from the top section that Maggies, Analysis Audio and Apogees do not have. That is why I think 4 bass horns is a good idea with Trios.
It isn't that bad though and I lived with this ML aspect for years. Some don't appear to even notice it as I have had that aspect challenged from owner's before.
Also, low volume performance was never excellent with any ML, encouraging volume cranks as they seem to really flesh out at higher volumes. Not sure about Neolith as they were played loud at Munich. I suggest you investigate both these points in any more listening sessions, but suggest as you have been happy with Prodigy for so long they won't be priorities high up on your list.
Additionally, amp choice is going to be critical with speakers at this level of performance. Getting it right might be quite challenging. An owner on the ML forum has spent a lot of time and money doing so,
NOTHING is perfect. Everything has some sort of issue. They are a good blend of compromises.
It isn't that bad though and I lived with this ML aspect for years. Some don't appear to even notice it as I have had that aspect challenged from owner's before.
Also, low volume performance was never excellent with any ML, encouraging volume cranks as they seem to really flesh out at higher volumes. Not sure about Neolith as they were played loud at Munich. I suggest you investigate both these points in any more listening sessions, but suggest as you have been happy with Prodigy for so long they won't be priorities high up on your list.
Additionally, amp choice is going to be critical with speakers at this level of performance. Getting it right might be quite challenging. An owner on the ML forum has spent a lot of time and money doing so,
NOTHING is perfect. Everything has some sort of issue. They are a good blend of compromises.
Although not specifically to ML's I have been given several times by independent people the advice that I should listen to Constellation Audio amplifiers with electrostatics. Do you remember of anyone referring to them?
I heard these at RMAF. Here is my post which shows the electronics (EMM Labs), interconnects, etc. It was in a massive reception hall.
The most grand demo was in a huge hall, playing direct to digital qual recordings through four of these Martinlogan speakers:
This is a wide shot showing the full setup:
The system played loud, really loud despite the huge space it was in. But proof point that without good music to your liking, none of this matters, well, none of it mattered. I was bored and walked out. Hardly anyone was there listening when I arrived, nor when I left. I vote it the most wasted system at the show.
Originally Posted by amirm
The most grand demo was in a huge hall, playing direct to digital qual recordings through four of these Martinlogan speakers:
This is a wide shot showing the full setup:
The system played loud, really loud despite the huge space it was in. But proof point that without good music to your liking, none of this matters, well, none of it mattered. I was bored and walked out. Hardly anyone was there listening when I arrived, nor when I left. I vote it the most wasted system at the show.
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There is absolutely no question that the MUSIC MUST NOT BE CRAP/PSEUDO SOPHISTCATED RUBBISH.
The demo music MUST be music people actually listen to. I don't care how great it may be for imaging, frequency response or any other criteria people might use to evaluate equipment. If it isn't a genre that people want to hear, they won't stay in the room and they won't know what music they actually listen to will sound like on the system being displayed.
Go ahead, tie me up and spank me. I make no apology for this.
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I will say one thing: I am glad they did not tie me up in that room until I liked it.
Do you think my idea of converting the Neolith into a four tower system with a full-height woofer tower on the outside of each Neolith would ameliorate the sense that the bass emanates only from the bottom third (which, of course, it does) of the speaker? With the Seaton class D amp module system I could set the low pass to the subwoofer towers as high as 200 Hz. (But if information as high as 200 Hz is coming from the subwoofer towers I would be nervous about class D amplification. See David Karmeli XLF/Thor's Hammer posts.)
PS: You are correct. The panel/cone integration on the Prodigy has never bothered me. But I have always been conscious of a lack of "body" from the panel, and, especially, of a lack of oomph and cone excursion impact in the 200 Hz to 400 Hz range.
I agree the ribbon panels do not manifest that lack of "body" as much as the ESL does.
I have heard constellation sounding good on magicos (a speaker not ti my tastes). The thing is that Martin Logan owners, Neolith and CLX aside, are high vfm people, by nature, as the relatively lower cost goes a long way before other designs start sounding better. CLX and Neolith are the main expensive speakers in the Logan brand, and I know off only one Neolith owner so far. So an expensive amp like constellation won't be a choice for them. Most of the electronics on the Logan forum are much lower cost than this forum.
Certainly the case with CLX's, very pleasant at 'piano bar' listening levels, however, and as example, were the intrepid audiophile to push through the 40-55/105 attenuation barrier on an ARC pre ( levels oft heard under show conditions and at dealer demo's) into the 70's and low 80's then the CLX morphs into quite another transducer altogether, pulling off that trick of sounding Bigger rather than merely Louder, placing one within the soundstage as apposed to audibly 'observing' it.
The hybrid nature of the Neolith, may, not exactly mirror this phenomenon, however I suspect that it may well be the case.
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Check out http://www.ami-hifi.de/
I heard some and there are some pretty brief details of it here.
So yes it can be made to work well. And the Purist guys had obviously been thinking exactly the same thing.
It is risky, though, Ron. You won't know if you like it until it is done. It might be best to use an open baffle design as it will radiate in both directions, like a panel. The Purists were sealed enclosure drivers, I believe.
Nice little project though.
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