Massif Audio Design racks incoming, and......

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, are those through bolts putting the shelves in tension between the legs? Is the tensioning designed to be adjustable for fine tuning? Or are they simply wood bolts going into the shelves to attach the post to the shelf? I assume the rack is assembled and shipped in flat packaging, or is it assembled at the factory and shipped in its final configuration? Do you know the total weight of one rack?

yes, heavy duty through bolts. not yet assembled or inspected it, and don't know about any torque settings. but i've got a torque wrench if i need it.

ships broken down.

the single rack without footers is 110 pounds. the doubles are over 200 pounds each plus footers.

 

[JEB42]

thank you Ron.

nope. never. my active Tana systems sitting on my concrete floor are the last word in amp stands.

You may be surprised that using the Massif under the Tana allows for further resolution. That's how we have used them with the Seismion's.

 

[JEB42]

when you have as much gear as i have it's daunting to consider (the $$$'s for) beautiful high end audio racks. for over a decade i've been very satisfied with my cost effective and solid performing Adona Zero GXT racks; i have 4 of them. and this past year i added a used Finite Element Pagoda rack for my Ampex MR-70 tape preamps.

i'm excited to say i've found a rack builder in Canada who has completed and should ship to me in about a week, a set of three racks for me to replace all my current racks. while not exactly cheap, it's not too crazy after i sell my still current model Adona Zero GXT racks. i'm getting one four shelf single (22" x 19") rack for my MR-70 tape pre's, and twin three shelf double (42" x 19") racks for the rest of my source gear. these racks are solid hardwood and absolutely beautiful. i think in my all-hardwood maple paneled listening room the look should be stunning.

the racks are from Massif Audio Design in Ontario, Canada. i'm also auditioning one of their record weights, this one is solid Lignum. i've been using it now for over a month and love it everywhere i try it. more on that later.

the solid hardwood shelves are about 1.75 inches thick maple, and the 3" thick legs are solid Bubinga. all clear stained. footers will be Nordost Sort Fut w/Sort locks. 3 sets of 4 of these gems (not cheap...ouch!!!). with the (1) high mass and (2) solid build, along with (3) the Nordost footer system, i expect my rack performance to improve, and the aesthetics to be much more enjoyable to live with.

so far i only have pictures of the single rack assembled.......i choose the clear maple stain to allow my gear which is mostly dark or black to stand out on the shelves. right now with my black granite shelving the gear blends in and you hardly see some of it.

View attachment 119438View attachment 119439View attachment 119440View attachment 119441

Love that combination!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Congrats Mike! Trevor makes excellent stands. He has made many of my shelves for my stands. His records weights are a thing of beauty & are awesome sounding!

thanks Gary.

reading that about your shelves being built by Massif, i recall admiring pictures of your home built racks, that makes sense. good move.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You may be surprised that using the Massif under the Tana allows for further resolution. That's how we have used them with the Seismion's.

the difference is that compared to the Seismion, the Tana systems 'add' a panzerholtz layer for higher frequency resonance attenuation. active has limited effectiveness at higher frequency attenuation.

but still you could be right, although unlikely for me to try that. but who knows?

 

[JEB42]

Mike, that’s a good looking rack. Congratulations. Do you expect to hear a difference between these and your old racks and if so how do you think the sound will change?

What will the Nordost footers bring to the package?

One factor is the ease of adjustment with the Nordost Sort Fut. They will yield a greater sense of ease with the music and more solidity to it. Better sense of space and depth. Shown here on a solid Bubinga rack.

 

[JEB42]

the difference is that compared to the Seismion, the Tana systems 'add' a panzerholtz layer for higher frequency resonance attenuation.

but still you could be right, although unlikely for me to try that. but who knows?

View attachment 119460

It's all one grand experiment!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

One factor is the ease of adjustment with the Nordost Sort Fut. They will yield a greater sense of ease with the music and more solidity to it. Better sense of space and depth. Shown here on a solid Bubinga rack.

thank you. nice to get valuable user feedback. that is my expectation too.

 

[tony22]

ultimately until i get them in room and the system set up and playing it's all speculation. i might need to 'tune' individual pieces of gear differently. that's what i do so i'm fine with that

As happens so often. I suspect you’ll have it all sorted beautifully once it’s in house. Good luck!

 

[T Boost]

Mike, are those through bolts putting the shelves in tension between the legs? Is the tensioning designed to be adjustable for fine tuning? Or are they simply wood bolts going into the shelves to attach the post to the shelf? I assume the rack is assembled and shipped in flat packaging, or is it assembled at the factory and shipped in its final configuration? Do you know the total weight of one rack?

Hi Peter, our racks can ship assembled or knocked down. Most customers opt for knocked down, as they aren’t difficult to assemble.
Each rack is custom sized to each customer’s requirements, so I can’t say the exact weight of a Massif rack. The rack Mike showed is about 110lbs. The hardware we use is simple black powder coated steel lag bolts with a very coarse thread. Excellent for extremely hard woods. I would say any tuning or the rack would be better served with the footers rather than over tightening or loosening the bolts that are essential to the racks design. Saying that, the hardware is in no way load bearing, ever. If you were to carefully remove each bolt, the rack would still stand. Take care.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter, our racks can ship assembled or knocked down. Most customers opt for knocked down, as they aren’t difficult to assemble.
Each rack is custom sized to each customer’s requirements, so I can’t say the exact weight of a Massif rack. The rack Mike showed is about 110lbs. The hardware we use is simple black powder coated steel lag bolts with a very coarse thread. Excellent for extremely hard woods. I would say any tuning or the rack would be better served with the footers rather than over tightening or loosening the bolts that are essential to the racks design. Saying that, the hardware is in no way load bearing, ever. If you were to carefully remove each bolt, the rack would still stand. Take care.

Thank you. I was curious if the bolt went all the way through the shelf so that it could be tightened effectively putting the shelf into compression changing the resonant frequency of the shelf. From your response I understand the largest coarse threaded bolts that go into the wood a certain amount as opposed to rods that go all the way through.

Racks are fascinating devices and there is such a variety of designs. They can be used as platforms for additional isolation like active or passive vibration control, or simply serve as a support. There can also be isolation inserted between the legs the shelves and all sorts of other alternatives.

Your racks look very well-made, rigid, and are quite attractive. It is interesting to me that the footers affect the shelf on which the component sits and can alter the sound through fine-tuning.

I look forward to reading Mike’s description of how the sound of his system changes with the switch to these lovely racks.

 

[bazelio]

Peter, you're not going to compress hard maple in any meaningful way with a couple through bolts anyhow.

T Boost, have you ever had requests to build shelves from a single slab rather than with edge joined boards?

 

[PeterA]

Peter, you're not going to compress hard maple in any meaningful way with a couple through bolts anyhow.

T Boost, have you ever had requests to build shelves from a single slab rather than with edge joined boards?

I suspect you are correct Bazelio. However, I am often surprised how tiny things affect sound. Those shelves are under pressure from the load of the gear. The top surface of the shelf is in compression and the bottom is in tention because it acts like a beam. Putting the whole shelf in more compression by tightening through rods may affect the resonant frequency along the top surface on which the components are sitting and the way vibrations are traveling up the legs and into the shelves.

My old Magico Q3 speakers had a very strong metal frame super structure and yet the tension rods clamping the front baffle to the rear baffle had to be set at a very precise torque. Changing that affected the sound. I was surprised.

The shelves in my rack are 46” wide 18” deep and 2” thick, true dimensions. They are single slabs. it was very hard to find the wood.

 

[T Boost]

Peter, you're not going to compress hard maple in any meaningful way with a couple through bolts anyhow.

T Boost, have you ever had requests to build shelves from a single slab rather than with edge joined boards?

Hi! I have. Aside from the added cost of finding slabs that size I would not want to do that. As an audio guy I’m not sure I would see any benefit to using a single slab but as a wood worker I would say no way. A large slab is very difficult to keep flat forever. Even if properly dried, you still don’t know. When I make a shelf it usually out of 3-4 pcs. Each piece’s grain gets alternated . Not length wise but one piece would be face up and the next face down. The theory is that each piece will dissuade the next from ever warping. Not my invention , but it’s been a pretty good method in all types of wood furniture construction.

Mandolorians would say : this is the way.

 

[PeterA]

Hi! I have. Aside from the added cost of finding slabs that size I would not want to do that. As an audio guy I’m not sure I would see any benefit to using a single slab but as a wood worker I would say no way. A large slab is very difficult to keep flat forever. Even if properly dried, you still don’t know. When I make a shelf it usually out of 3-4 pcs. Each piece’s grain gets alternated . Not length wise but one piece would be face up and the next face down. The theory is that each piece will dissuade the next from ever warping. Not my invention , but it’s been a pretty good method in all types of wood furniture construction.

Mandolorians would say : this is the way.

T, And those joints are usually stronger than the word itself. My rack’s top shelf is 3 inches thick and 48 x 20. It supports 900 pounds along its length without observable deflection. The furniture maker told me it could support about 1800 pounds. We could not find a slab that thick so it is made from three sections glued and joined together.

 

[T Boost]

T, And those joints are usually stronger than the word itself. My rack’s top shelf is 3 inches thick and 48 x 20. It supports 900 pounds along its length without observable deflection. The furniture maker told me it could support about 1800 pounds. We could not find a slab that thick so it is made from three sections glued and joined together.

You’re right that the glue joints are probably stronger than the wood itself. I’ve done that demonstration before. High end glue is necessary, of course. I haven’t tested 3” hardwood to that weight , but I’m certain it could hold 1800lbs. I built. 12’ snooker table once that has 3000lbs of slate on it, and it levelled up beautifully. Zero deflection.
hardwoods of the right cut truly are amazing things. I currently have 2 racks in the shop that are 3” rock maple on African Mpingo legs. You could park a Hummer on these.

 

[bazelio]

Good ole Titebond will do the trick and reverse grain orientation is tried and true. Good technique. I like the Festool mortise and floating tenon tool to further enhance the joint, but also to help with board alignment during the glue up. Kind of like biscuit joinery but with massive biscuits. I don't have a wide belt sander, so good alignment really saves a lot of work. I also agree on the likelihood of solid slab warpage over time. One thing I've found, though, is that both plywood shelves and butcher block shelves sound pretty bad. And the way I look at it is that laminated slabs start to approach what plywood is while the edge joined boards start to approach butcher block. I'd go with the edge joined approach and try to use no more than three boards to obtain the final shelf width. This creates a dimensionally stable platform and minimizes glue joint surface area (which I suspect is key to avoiding dead sounding shelves) vs the laminated plank construction. So, I like the Massif build.

Mike, when do these go in? I don't envy the work that will be involved in swapping racks but the end result ought to be quite satisfying.

PS Bubinga is one of my favorite woods. Gorgeous!

 

[mxk116]

One factor is the ease of adjustment with the Nordost Sort Fut. They will yield a greater sense of ease with the music and more solidity to it. Better sense of space and depth. Shown here on a solid Bubinga rack.View attachment 119461

Agree with JEB42 assessment of the Nordost SORT FUT system.

I use a Franc Audio Wood Block double wide rack for my source equipment. When first installed, I was disappointed with the result; the "life" was no longer in the music. The factory supplied feet were the main culprit. I had been using a Zoethecus rack that I had for many years but it was too small to accomodate all the source devices. I had the Nordost SORT footers on the Zoethecus and decided to try them on the new Franc Audio rack. In my room the Nordost SORT footers transformed the Franc Audio rack; the "life' returned to the music as well as a new quietude to the residual noise floor. The combination of the Nordost SORT FUT system with the Franc Audio rack has now exceeded my expectations. IMO the Nordost SORT footers are indispensable. Interested in how they perform in a system the caliber of Mike's.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Good ole Titebond will do the trick and reverse grain orientation is tried and true. Good technique. I like the Festool mortise and floating tenon tool to further enhance the joint, but also to help with board alignment during the glue up. Kind of like biscuit joinery but with massive biscuits. I don't have a wide belt sander, so good alignment really saves a lot of work. I also agree on the likelihood of solid slab warpage over time. One thing I've found, though, is that both plywood shelves and butcher block shelves sound pretty bad. And the way I look at it is that laminated slabs start to approach what plywood is while the edge joined boards start to approach butcher block. I'd go with the edge joined approach and try to use no more than three boards to obtain the final shelf width. This creates a dimensionally stable platform and minimizes glue joint surface area (which I suspect is key to avoiding dead sounding shelves) vs the laminated plank construction. So, I like the Massif build.

nice to get some positives. thanks.

Mike, when do these go in?

Trevor says maybe end of this week, but probably next week sometime. then a week to 10 days to my place. so maybe 2-3 weeks arrival.

I don't envy the work that will be involved in swapping racks but the end result ought to be quite satisfying.

nice being retired.....as i can be totally consumed without interruption. and i have some local friends who have offered to help. a complication is that Trevor is also providing a 8.5" x 48" x 1.5" matching solid maple shelf i will be installing on my wall behind the two double racks. currently i have a smaller one there. this larger/longer one will provide more organization to the myriad of supporting pieces to my gear rack. so once i remove my current racks, that will need to be installed. i had mounted the smaller one with all the other racks in place which was a royal pain. this time i can be more tidy with my install.....no game of 'extreme twister' with my 72 year old body.

the only thing that will be tricky is removing and installing the CS Port turntable. it's a beast, and i'll need to be very methodical about it. the Esoteric T1 comes apart in pieces, and i've moved the NVS multiple times by myself. the other 'beast' is the Tripoint Elite ground box. over 100 pounds and almost impossible to grip. i have a nice 500 lb wheeled lift that will make moving the Wadax chassis and Elite around a breeze. i've done that already myself.

can't wait to see it all in place.

PS Bubinga is one of my favorite woods. Gorgeous!

mine too.

 

[XV-1]

Hey Mike

What is your overall purpose of buying these racks?

Are they designed to isolate components better than HRS, Pagode, SRA etc?

Or

Are you getting well made platforms so you get matching looks and a consistent sound base. This will allow easy additions of footers, iso platforms etc depending on the front end component.

Cheers
Shane