Measurements and the Correlation of What We Hear

Guys, please don't get personal or I start using the delete button on posts :). It is the weekend. Let's keep the discussion fun like buying Steve's amps. :D

I'm all for that. I hope Steve has packed his preamp to ship off to me. I'm getting ready to head to Fed Ex to get my C2a shipped off to Steve.
 
How old were those caps and resistors? It's possible, not a certainty by any means, but completely possible that you could have made the same sonic difference with proper spec caps and resistors right off the shelf.



What you can take from that is that, by your estimation, at this point in time, it is your perception that it yields some of the best sound you've ever heard. What you can't take from that is that it yields some of the quietest, most distortion free, most dynamic, accurate (flat FR for the next pedant that comes along), channel-separated, transient responsed (please forgive the English that's taking a butchering here...), etc, etc, sound you've ever heard. For that, you're going to need measurements. But if you just love the way it sounds and couldn't care less how it measures, I completely respect that. Enjoy.

Tim

Hi Tim,

The unit had been totally rebuilt in 1990 and then tested and checked out by Dave Dintenfass in Seattle 2 years ago. The majority of techs will not perform this work that I had done,but that's another issue.

My system is very unique and I have always had what I consider good sound over the last 30 years. All I can add is that, what the purpose of my voicing was to achieve a very natural and articulate sound with great clarity along with a dynamic range that took full advantage of the headroom that the Ampex provides. Happily my selection of caps and resistors yield the desired result. Where the 350 lacked was at both frequency extremes. The highs were good but cutoff to some degree and the low base lacked "slam and detail",the kind of detail one would expect for todays high end.

Maybe I listen different, but the thing that most impresses me is if a piece of equipment can reproduce space and time correctly and that is what for me puts me in the in the recording. The Aura created is so elusive and when that is captured I know that I am experiencing some thing special. This aura requires extreme clarity and with that clarity seems to bring a long all the rest of the markers,dynamics,frequency response,imaging,micro detail,ect,ect

I can't explain the why,but after really putting effort in my system and learning from my experiments on lowering all types of distortion and noise, it is gratifying to hear this level of reproduction.
 
I'm all for that. I hope Steve has packed his preamp to ship off to me. I'm getting ready to head to Fed Ex to get my C2a shipped off to Steve.

No hope, Mep. Did not you read Amir post?
(...) It is the weekend. Let's keep the discussion fun like buying Steve's amps. :D
Surely he already bought it for the price of a C2a, while we are having fun ... :rolleyes:
 
Hi Tim,

The unit had been totally rebuilt in 1990 and then tested and checked out by Dave Dintenfass in Seattle 2 years ago. The majority of techs will not perform this work that I had done,but that's another issue.

My system is very unique and I have always had what I consider good sound over the last 30 years. All I can add is that, what the purpose of my voicing was to achieve a very natural and articulate sound with great clarity along with a dynamic range that took full advantage of the headroom that the Ampex provides. Happily my selection of caps and resistors yield the desired result. Where the 350 lacked was at both frequency extremes. The highs were good but cutoff to some degree and the low base lacked "slam and detail",the kind of detail one would expect for todays high end.

Maybe I listen different, but the thing that most impresses me is if a piece of equipment can reproduce space and time correctly and that is what for me puts me in the in the recording. The Aura created is so elusive and when that is captured I know that I am experiencing some thing special. This aura requires extreme clarity and with that clarity seems to bring a long all the rest of the markers,dynamics,frequency response,imaging,micro detail,ect,ect

I can't explain the why,but after really putting effort in my system and learning from my experiments on lowering all types of distortion and noise, it is gratifying to hear this level of reproduction.

Do I understand that these are vintage recording preamps, Roger? The pres from your tape recorder. Some of that stuff was excellent, if a bit noisy. I'll bet it sounds great.

Tim
 
They do sound great-I own a pair of them. Their noise floor is suprisingly low and when the music starts on a great tape, you hear nothing but glorious music.
 
Not surprising. Tube gear invariably has a higher SNR than good SS gear, but it's usually not enough to matter much in practice. I realize I mentioned a measurement there, hope that's ok ;)

Tim
 
Not surprising. Tube gear invariably has a higher SNR than good SS gear, but it's usually not enough to matter much in practice. I realize I mentioned a measurement there, hope that's ok ;)

Tim

Tim,

Mark pretty much nails it,and yes it is ok to mention SNR. This is kinda OT,but I would be interested if Mark at some time after his KBL arrives and uses the 350's with the KBL's monitor switch and compares the sound between the two.

back on topic,I really do understand where your grounded. I wish I had a HP distortion analyzer,scope,and signal gen(I do have that) and could use them proficiently. I just don't know if that would point me directly to the "perfect" path or solution. I have had the pleasure of knowing and dealing with several designers and viewing what their methodologies produced gave me some insight,but then again there is always the X factor and that's the unknown. One thing that one needs in this business is plenty of long hours. As I have learned when you love something,time flies.
 
back on topic,I really do understand where your grounded. I wish I had a HP distortion analyzer,scope,and signal gen(I do have that) and could use them proficiently. I just don't know if that would point me directly to the "perfect" path or solution.

The path is much more complex than reading measurements, for sure. If we had very thorough measurements of all the equipment we might be interested in, that would be lovely, but it still would not be the path. The path begins, for me anyway, with a belief in the ethos and methods of the builder. If I understand his goals, and they are consistent with mine; if I understand his methods and they are consistent with good implementation, then the gate to the path is open. An awful lot of that I've gotten from places like WB, from reading the impressions of users and the words of designers and builders. That gives me a much narrower gate to walk through. The path is more reading, exploration - of subjective impressions and yes, measurement. And of course it ends with listening. Right now I'm good, and that's a great place for me to be because I'm starting up another band, probably my last, my bucket list band, and I really don't have time to obsess over hifi. I need to obsess over arrangements and such. I put together a rig that would be an audiophile's nightmare the other day. It certainly would be a nightmare of noise for me if it were meant to be hifi, but of course it is not. It consists of a Line6 Pod - a tube guitar amplifier modeler - a little line mixer and an iPod all velcroed to a piece of plywood. The SNR is not good. but I can plug an electric guitar into one end, an iPod or my Mac/DAC into the other, headphones in the middle and play along with anything I can get into the system while monitoring with speakers or cans.

Noisy as it is, for me, it's audio heaven.

Tim
 
Steve-I shipped off my C2a to you for our trade. Here is the tracking number:Y2ASPECSBTRTNLAMM
 
Steve-I shipped off my C2a to you for our trade. Here is the tracking number:Y2ASPECSBTRTNLAMM

Steve sent the preamp here, Mark. After I've measured it for you to make sure it's ok for your ears, I'll forward it to you, :)

Tim
 
I ordered the 4 shelves needed for Steve's preamp and still you guys beat me to it. I hate you all! ;) ;) ;)
 
Jack, that tropical heat just has you moving too slowly, bro. Or are you still in the states?

Tim
 
I'm back home Tim but I got a lot of Tropical heat when I was there. I'm also quite a few shades darker. Just when I thought I'd maxed out my pigmentation! There's something about Hawaiian sun. SPF 200. Now that's a measurement that would have had me at Long's Drug in a jiffy! Hahahahaha.

I'll be back in the states next month. A few days in San Francisco then off to get some desert sun in Las Vegas. My IEMs are getting a lot of playing time!
 
Yeah. Major bummer Steve. I'll be with my other brother, the one not particularly interested in audio so RMAF was out. Jim and I have our CES passes already so there is a glimmer of hope for January.
 
Yeah. Major bummer Steve. I'll be with my other brother, the one not particularly interested in audio so RMAF was out. Jim and I have our CES passes already so there is a glimmer of hope for January.

far too much vacation time Jack :)

I'll be at CES. Staying at the Vdara
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu