Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[ddk]

There’s no way vintage speakers are as good as modern speakers.technology in speakers has come a long way,but everyone to there own.

Again, I wont disagree if your vintage experience is what you listed and not because of any breakthrough technology but due to the shortcomings of those speakers. Many of us don't even consider them vintage.

david

 

[bonzo75]

The assessment of vintage vs modern will greatly depend on what the listener is looking for and what their priorities are

Not really, it will first come down to if the listeners have any exposure to vintage. Everyone has exposure to modern, because it is with the times. You walk into a shop, a show, you will see modern. That is where the profits are and the distribution channel is.

Most people today will have to try really hard to get exposure to good vintage. Unless you are one of the survivors from that era where they were with the times.

What totally surprises me is that someone listens to an old component and makes a general assumption on a vintage signature. If all those here without exposure to vintage (or exposure to a one off vintage component) are to be believed, vintage is forgiving, rolled off, with lesser extension.

 

[Al M.]

Not really, it will first come down to if the listeners have any exposure to vintage. Everyone has exposure to modern, because it is with the times. You walk into a shop, a show, you will see modern. That is where the profits are and the distribution channel is.

Most people today will have to try really hard to get exposure to good vintage. Unless you are one of the survivors from that era where they were with the times.

What totally surprises me is that someone listens to an old component and makes a general assumption on a vintage signature. If all those here without exposure to vintage (or exposure to a one off vintage component) are to be believed, vintage is forgiving, rolled off, with lesser extension.

What you say doesn't take away what I say.

Obviously tastes differ greatly among people when it comes to various modern speakers, so there is no reason to assume that it will be any different when it comes to vintage vs modern.

 

[PeterA]

Not really, it will first come down to if the listeners have any exposure to vintage. Everyone has exposure to modern, because it is with the times. You walk into a shop, a show, you will see modern. That is where the profits are and the distribution channel is.

Most people today will have to try really hard to get exposure to good vintage. Unless you are one of the survivors from that era where they were with the times.

What totally surprises me is that someone listens to an old component and makes a general assumption on a vintage signature. If all those here without exposure to vintage (or exposure to a one off vintage component) are to be believed, vintage is forgiving, rolled off, with lesser extension.

I understand you Bonzo and agree. The majority of my friends who have heard my system - some audiophiles and others simply friends and musicians - think my new system with the vintage horns is much more realistic sounding then my old system with modern speakers. Some even used the term "natural" to describe it. However, two of my audiophile friends have been exposed to good vintage with my Vitavox speakers and Lamm and they do not seem to really like it. Al may be right: it comes down to preference. This is what microstrip says also: in the end, personal preference is what matters most. Hard to argue against preference.

 

[morricab]

I understand you Bonzo and agree. The majority of my friends who have heard my system, some audio files and others simply musicians and friends think my new system with the vintage horns is much better then my old system with modern speakers. Two of my audio file friends have been exposed to good vintage with my Vitavox and they seem to much prefer modern speakers. My conclusion is that Al has a point. It comes down to preference. This is what microstrip says also: it’s all about personal preference. Hard to argue against preference.

Sure someone can have a preference that deviates from what live, unamplified, music sounds like...lots of audiophiles out there that might not even realize this about themselves....

 

[bonzo75]

What you say doesn't take away what I say.

Obviously tastes differ greatly among people when it comes to various modern speakers, so there is no reason to assume that it will be any different when it comes to vintage vs modern.

Amazing you can comment on what you have not heard.

 

[bonzo75]

I understand you Bonzo and agree. The majority of my friends who have heard my system, some audio files and others simply musicians and friends think my new system with the vintage horns is much better then my old system with modern speakers. Two of my audio file friends have been exposed to good vintage with my Vitavox and they seem to much prefer modern speakers. My conclusion is that Al has a point. It comes down to preference. This is what microstrip says also: it’s all about personal preference. Hard to argue against preference.

Preferring modern to Vitavox has almost nothing to do with preferring modern to vintage. It is like saying if one does not like one of Magico, WIlson, Martin Logan, Rockport, etc, they don't like modern

 

[Al M.]

Sure someone can have a preference that deviates from what live, unamplified, music sounds like...lots of audiophiles out there that might not even realize this about themselves....

And it seems quite obvious that you take your perceptions as absolute and "objective", and do not tolerate any disagreement.

Yet as I argued, even the perception of what real, live and unamplified music sounds like is individual, and will be different for each person. Hey, some friends and I even have disagreed about the sound what we just heard when we sat next to each other at a live classical concert. Often we do agree, but even then we do not always seem to assign the same levels of significance to different aspects of the sound.

Moreover, the alignment of the experience of live, unamplified music with system preferences will depend on personal taste and listening priorities. It all goes through personal filtering.

You and Bonzo argue as if only everyone would hear what you both consider really good systems (preferably, it seems, SETs with horns), everyone would "see the light".

It doesn't work that way. It's still about individual perceptions, tastes and preferences.

 

[Al M.]

Also, based on the sound of the system videos that you both like to post, it sure as hell is about personal preference!

LOL

 

[bonzo75]

You and Bonzo argue as if only everyone would hear what you both consider really good systems (preferably, it seems, SETs with horns), everyone would "see the light".

From what I gleaned, after listening to Vitavox and Lamm, people thought they had done their due dligence on SETs horns.

Sorry, but I never said everyone would like any SETs horn system. I always say every horn is more different from each other than it is from a non horn speaker. So, you will have to listen to quite a few to make that statement. I like very few SETs horn systems, and there are many that I don't like. So, what you quoted above is completely incorrect, and I recommend inefficient speakers over many SET based systems, and I would prefer some SETs horns to those inefficient speakers

 

[bonzo75]

Also, based on the sound of the system videos that you both like to post, it sure as hell is about personal preference!

LOL

To a non audiophile, all of us are the same. Big speakers, turntable, cables.

The sad part is here for many seasoned audiophiles, SETs horn people are like a one samey blog. They have absolutely no way of discerning between different SETs and efficient speaker set ups, similar to how non audiophiles cannot discern between audio jargon. This is sad because after being for so many years in this hobby the lack of willingness to learn on this front from your group disappoints me

 

[Al M.]

From what I gleaned, after listening to Vitavox and Lamm, people thought they had done their due dligence on SETs horns.

Sorry, but I never said everyone would like any SETs horn system. I always say every horn is more different from each other than it is from a non horn speaker. So, you will have to listen to quite a few to make that statement. I like very few SETs horn systems, and there are many that I don't like. So, what you quoted above is completely incorrect, and I recommend inefficient speakers over many SET based systems, and I would prefer some SETs horns to those inefficient speakers

That was not my point.

 

[Al M.]

To a non audiophile, all of us are the same. Big speakers, turntable, cables.

The sad part is here for many seasoned audiophiles, SETs horn people are like a one samey blog. They have absolutely no way of discerning between different SETs and efficient speaker set ups, similar to how non audiophiles cannot discern between audio jargon. This is sad because after being for so many years in this hobby the lack of willingness to learn on this front from your group disappoints me

Unlike what you assume, I am curious about SET/horns.

But again, that has nothing to do with my point.

Obviously you can't see my point. Too bad, but I'm not surprised.

 

[Salectric]

Threads like these drive me crazy. Trying to lump all “vintage speakers” into a single class and contrasting them with “modern speakers” just doesn’t make sense. There is way too much variation in each group.

I suggest a better question is whether the “best vintage speakers” sound more like real music than the “best modern speakers.” For me the answer is YES.

There may be some general agreement about which modern speakers are among the “best” available today. But there isn’t that same understanding when it comes to the “best vintage speakers” because most audiophiles have never heard speakers from the 1930s and 40s. Anybody who has not heard a good Western Electric horn system from that era is not qualified to offer an opinion.

 

[PeterA]

From what I gleaned, after listening to Vitavox and Lamm, people thought they had done their due dligence on SETs horns.

Sorry, but I never said everyone would like any SETs horn system. I always say every horn is more different from each other than it is from a non horn speaker. So, you will have to listen to quite a few to make that statement. I like very few SETs horn systems, and there are many that I don't like. So, what you quoted above is completely incorrect, and I recommend inefficient speakers over many SET based systems, and I would prefer some SETs horns to those inefficient speakers

Bonzo, I think you are referring to me. I heard Vitavox, Bionors, JBL M9500 and Mitsubishi Dinatone, all with Lamm and vinyl in Utah. I admitted to you in a PM it was not a comprehensive and exhausting investigation. One does what he is able and interested in doing.

I heard enough over seven days to know what I wanted for my next system. It is really that simple. I did not do your level of SET/horn due diligence and I am fine with that. I commend and applaud you for your different approach.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, I think you are referring to me. I heard Vitavox, Bionors, JBL M9500 and Mitsubishi Dinatone, all with Lamm and vinyl in Utah. I admitted to you in a PM it was not a comprehensive and exhausting investigation. One does what he is able and interested in doing.

I heard enough over seven days to know what I wanted for my next system. It is really that simple. I did not do your level of SET/horn due diligence and I am fine with that. I commend and applaud you for your different approach.

Hi no not referring to you, but to those who heard your system and did not like it and therefore concluded SETS horns/vintage have a certain sound

 

[Al M.]

Hi no not referring to you, but to those who heard your system and did not like it and therefore concluded SETS horns/vintage have a certain sound

I have always thought of Peter's system as just one data point. I don't understand what led you to a different conclusion.

 

[bonzo75]

I have always thought of Peter's system as just one data point. I don't understand what led you to a different conclusion.

The statements you made above.

 

[Al M.]

The statements you made above.

As I said, you don't get my point. Too bad.

 

[jespera]

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Yesterday the wedding of my son was done beautuflly in front of 100 guests.

I dropped in some audio shops in Seoul, Korea today.


1. I listened to Magico A5 driven by Sim Audio integrated.

The owner of shop mentioned that Octave vacuum amp fitted with KT150 is the best to drive A5, but not ready for audition today.

Even driven by Sim Audio integrated, A5 sounds fast and clean

It is really good for the money.

I am not sure whether I have enough motivation to replace Lansche 4.1 by Magico A5.

But if I have fresh start with budget of 25K$ on speaker, A5 is hard to beat.


2. Then I dropped in the vintage audio shop where I auditioned full 3 way Western Electric system valued at 300k$ two years ago.

The one that I auditioned had been sold.

But I had listeded to JBL Hartzfield early version(three way) in excellent condition.

It really sounds warm an moving.

I got tempted to pull the trigger for JBL at 35k$.


Then I had listened to Altec A800 early version in pristine condition.

I got blown away by the sound driven by Altec 1520 T vacuum amplifier.

It sounds natural with effortless dynamics and good extensiion on both treble and bass.

It sounds excellent for both vocal and orchestral music.


I had bought Altec A7 speakers located in Vancouver, Canada two months ago at 1000 CDN(800 USD) for pair of speakers.

I expect to pick it up after being back to Washinton State next week.

But I am not sure whether Altec A7 will sound as good as Altec A800.


With Lansche 4.1 still working fine, I may not need to add Magico A5.

But I am tempted to add Altec A800 at reasonable price in addition to Altec A7.

Looks line youve landed in my idea of hifi heaven.

Whats the name of the shop?

Many of these beauties may benefit from new/carefully updated crossovers.

Jesper