Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[bonzo75]

goebel, what comes after utra high end;
Hyper high end?
Extreme High End?

It is for those who think that with progressive increase in price you can have an orchestra and a lep zeppelin reunion in your room.

At ultra and hyper at best you will get Duran Duran.

Which is why, it is always good to know what these guys audition with.

 

[morricab]

I have not said anything against those as I haven't heard them with SETs outside of Munich. It might be they share same characteristics as vintage speakers, but there are a lot of horns for you to try to know the similarities. I think it is quite apparent from above discussions that when people differentiate modern speakers they are referring to the more commonly available ones, like Magico, Wilson, Raidho, Focal, etc...

There was the small Gobbel here in London with CH electronics that got replaced by the Stenheim Alumine 2 and latter is much better, and as you know Howie moved to AN-E with SETs from the Divins

With Engstrom amps they were quite good also with top Kronos TT. I think the Engstroms might be PP though and not SET.

 

[bonzo75]

With Engstrom amps they were quite good also with top Kronos TT. I think the Engstroms might be PP though and not SET.

Looking back at notes, there was Engstrom T100 in Munich with the Goebbel, 300b XLS with Kharma, and 300b integrated with Verity. The Verity sounded the most natural of the modern cones that year at Munich, their room with Zesto was also quite good.

 

[gian60]

I find vintage speaker very good for natural sound and very musical but lack dynamic, transparency and details.

I find top modern speaker very transparent, dynamic with many details but lack natural sound and are not very musical

For me will be a big problem if need to buy a new speaker, no one excite me

 

[hopkins]

I find vintage speaker very good for natural sound and very musical but lack dynamic, transparency and details.

I find top modern speaker very transparent, dynamic with many details but lack natural sound and are not very musical

For me will be a big problem if need to buy a new speaker, no one excite me

I agree with the conclusion, but based on my limited experience I would say that some vintage speakers offer more resolution than modern speakers and sound more dynamic (which is not the same as simply playing loud). Modern speakers have wider and flatter frequency response.

 

[MarcelNL]

I find vintage speaker very good for natural sound and very musical but lack dynamic, transparency and details.

I find top modern speaker very transparent, dynamic with many details but lack natural sound and are not very musical

For me will be a big problem if need to buy a new speaker, no one excite me

have a listen to the We 15a using the oldest 555 driver....dynamics, natural sound and musical booting a grand sound, the Klangfilm sound is more laid back and organic but has the same qualities presented differently...

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I find vintage speaker very good for natural sound and very musical but lack dynamic, transparency and details.

I find top modern speaker very transparent, dynamic with many details but lack natural sound and are not very musical

For me will be a big problem if need to buy a new speaker, no one excite me

you look the wrong places

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

have a listen to the We 15a using the oldest 555 driver....dynamics, natural sound and musical booting a grand sound, the Klangfilm sound is more laid back and organic but has the same qualities presented differently...

and double wood WE16 with 4x555 was fantastic

 

[MarcelNL]

and double wood WE16 with 4x555 was fantastic

point me to that set and I'll go listen, sounds like a great setup!

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

not sure he takes visitors.....
he´s 13audio

 

[MarcelNL]

not sure he takes visitors.....
he´s 13audio

is he Tim Gurney by any chance? In that case I likely have a ticket in ;-)

 

[MarcelNL]

my problem with such a system is that I need my neighbours to move out of their house to accomodate the horns ;-)

 

[PeterA]

I find vintage speaker very good for natural sound and very musical but lack dynamic, transparency and details.

I find top modern speaker very transparent, dynamic with many details but lack natural sound and are not very musical

For me will be a big problem if need to buy a new speaker, no one excite me

Gian, Perhaps your impressions were influenced by the rest of the gear in the system, and the set up and rooms. It may not be fair to generalize so broadly on vintage versus modern. The few stand out above all the rest in each broad category. I have heard four specific examples of vintage speakers that were incredibly dynamic, transparent, and resolving: Bionor, Vitavox, JBL, and Diatone. A lot depends on the amps, wires, and power.

The other factor, though not much discussed for obvious reasons, is that if you can find the right vintage speaker, it often costs a fraction of what a modern speaker costs. But prices are going up quickly just as used prices of modern flagships drop like rocks.

 

[Lagonda]

my problem with such a system is that I need my neighbours to move out of their house to accomodate the horns ;-)

Leif built a nice house for his wife and her flowers in the garden, he has the house to him self and his horns now !

 

[the sound of Tao]

Hello SOT

I don't know back in the late 50's and early 60's when stereo was being born "High Fidelity" was the name of the game. Basically Fidelity to the source and they had their own generation of "demo" records at the time. I don't think things have really changed all that much except maybe the program material chosen for the demo's.

When I go to a show I bring my own music. Demo music in most cases is not what I would normally listen to some of it contrived for a wow factor.

As far as modern speaker designed for a wow factor?? I hope not and would like to believe they stick to the original meaning of High Fidelity.

I want a neutral speaker not something "voiced" to what someone else thinks sounds best.

Rob

Rob more and more lately I’ve been thinking about where the concept of continuous improvement has taken us with audio design, well not just audio design but everything really… but when it comes to audio has it primarily been about increased bandwidth and better measurements and more impressive sonic experiences and even more obvious levels of excess… but has it always necessarily taken us to ultimately a better place and that’s not so obvious to me.

Also that early audio design was centred around recording and replaying essentially acoustic based music and that more and more since the 70’s music has become much more of a fascinating hybrid with acoustic and increasing use of electric/electronic/synthetic instruments and with much more emphasis on subsonic and infrasonic sounds… and maybe these demands for greater linear extremes have made it harder to make gear optimised around playing acoustic music… the conversation over the years has increased over using unamplified live music as a benchmark for the sound of our systems and perhaps part of that is also about a reaction in pulling back the balance to more human scales of music and even more regularly to more intimate scales of music.

Gear that is best at phenomenal synthetic music may also not always be equally good at rendering more intimate scales of more acoustic based music. Chasing bandwidth might bring its own challenges… certainly the audio gear measurements war brought with it plenty of casualties along the way. Maybe experiencing more synthetic sounds has changed our expectations about what sound should be sensationally.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

my goodwill account skyrocketed after she got her own orangerie in the garden

 

[MarcelNL]

Rob more and more lately I’ve been thinking about where the concept of continuous improvement has taken us with audio design, well not just audio design but everything really… but when it comes to audio has it primarily been about increased bandwidth and better measurements and more impressive sonic experiences and even more obvious levels of excess… but has it always necessarily taken us to ultimately a better place and that’s not so obvious to me.

Also that early audio design was centred around recording and replaying essentially acoustic based music and that more and more since the 70’s music has become much more of a fascinating hybrid with acoustic and increasing use of electric/electronic/synthetic instruments and with much more emphasis on subsonic and infrasonic sounds… and maybe these demands for greater linear extremes have made it harder to make gear optimised around playing acoustic music… the conversation over the years has increased over using unamplified live music as a benchmark for the sound of our systems and perhaps part of that is also about a reaction in pulling back the balance to more human scales of music and even more regularly to more intimate scales of music.

Gear that is best at phenomenal synthetic music may also not always be equally good at rendering more intimate scales of more acoustic based music. Chasing bandwidth might bring its own challenges… certainly the audio gear measurements war brought with it plenty of casualties along the way. Maybe experiencing more synthetic sounds has changed our expectations about what sound should be sensationally.

I'm listening to about as much electronic music as acoustic based music (classical ranging from chamber music to symphonic) and find that with a vintage based design combined with a few different (super) tweeters the whole breadth is covered.
What's important for electrnic is equally important for acoustic music IMHO, yet the snap of a tweeter vs the finest detail make a difference in presentation. When pushed I probably could live with the tweeter of choice for acoustic music.

 

[Lagonda]

my goodwill account skyrocketed after she got her own orangerie in the garden

Is your equipment room/control room really your old master bedroom ? How did you get away with that. You are a diy horn expert that has built his own phono and power tube amps and horns, but you could make some serious money if you made a instructional video on how to hypnotize your wife into agreeing to everything. She even compliments you on the sound of the system without asking how much the latest upgrades have cost !

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

yes we built a new one on gnd floor, and I suggested it and she surprisingly agreed...I almost fainted....

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

about 14sqm for hardware, LPs and tape