Most in US won't be able to escape 'fiscal cliff'

[es347]

Most of what you are suggesting here makes sense, and is clearly inspired by pragmatism (with the exception of (9) which is vintage social engineering). The reason you can strike almost every one off your list as "won't happen" boils down to the very two things that are preventing good governance. The first is "ideology" and the second is "special interest".

There's a third...3) reelection......term limits!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

There's a third...3) reelection......term limits!

Here's a fourth....more than a 2-party system.

 

[rockitman]

Funny! Capitalism is alive and well up here, we just manage it differently.

Manage it differently ? How so ?

 

[rockitman]

Good point - business should get out of the health care business. Never understood why conservatives continue to favor businesses providing health care coverage. A single payer system would be a much more efficient system

How many businesses suck at the government teat - farm subsidies, oil subisdies, defense contractors, consultants, lobbyists, law firms not counting the wide range of tax incentives for businessses.

The irony is too great.

How about Ross Perot. EDS made its fortune providing computer services to the government. Yet, he ranted against government spending.

Here's another one, John Ricketts (TD Ameritrade) , who funds right wing causes, is asking for hundreds of millions in govenmentsubsidies for a new stadium for the Chicago Cubs.

The term hypocrite comes to mind.

All good points. Regarding farming and food supply, I don't see any other way but to subsidize. Without them, no one could afford food if the farmer's footed the entire bill to produce crops/ livestock.

 

[edorr]

All good points. Regarding farming and food supply, I don't see any other way but to subsidize. Without them, no one could afford food if the farmer's footed the entire bill to produce crops/ livestock.

This is complete bogus at two levels. First, if the taxpayer currently funding the farming subsidies kept the money in their pocket and food prices went up, they could simply apply these funds towards paying more for food (or spend less on food and buy a new iPhone if they choose to do so).

More importantly, the reason farming is subsidized is simply because lots of US and European farming is not competitive on global markets. So US farmers would be driven out of business without subsidy (not to mention Europeans). Farming subsidies is just blatant protecitionism, at the cost of billions of exports opportunities to third world countries.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Manage it differently ? How so ?

By having regulations in place that work. For instance, take our Banking system. It's the envy of the world. The housing crisis that befell you would never have happened here, because the regulations are there to protect the consumer and not indiscriminately advance the cause of profiteering by big business.

 

[KBK]

By having regulations in place that work. For instance, take our Banking system. It's the envy of the world. The housing crisis that befell you would never have happened here, because the regulations are there to protect the consumer and not indiscriminately advance the cause of profiteering by big business.

I believe it was Mulroney (1984-93) who took us in Canada off of making our own currency..and turned us to borrowing it from others. Now there is a man who's name should be cursed by all Canadians.

This means that what has gone on in the USA is our future. before, All 'dollars' where created either by banks in the realm of borrowing, or by direct creation by the Canadian government. NOW, the Canadian government is like the USA, they can't ever get out of debt from big international banks, as they don't even print their own money. And each dollar they issue, Canada's government now OWES more than there is to pay it back.

This means eventual and perpetual servitude to big banks. The equation is simple.

That every country that ever produced it's own currency, outside of big banks, has survived and done financially very well.

Every country that has not made it's own currency and issued it, has been under the thumb of some poorly or well hidden cartel.

Some like to make it appear more complex than that above, but in reality, it is not.

The axis of evil, as advertized in the popular media in the western world, are all the remaining few countries that have their own currency and issues their own currency.

Everyone else is financially tied to the banking cartels, regarding currency issuance,and subsequent, debt and control of finances and financial flows.

There is no fiscal cliff but that which controlled and scripted government offices wish to convey.

If the USA where to go back to issuing their own currency, all fiscal cliffs would go away in about 3 months and the USA would be in better shape than it has been in at least 75 years. It is well speculated that Kennedy died for this very reason of trying to remove the Fed and their associated systems. It is also in the evidential trail that all the pieces to do exactly that where in place, when he died. He had created them, and they where ready to go on line and live, just before he was assassinated.

(FYI, for those who don't know, the Fed is a private bank that has never been audited and profits from every US dollar issued. Which means the USA is in locked into perpetual debt to a banking cartel.)

A perpetual debt that can end today, as the 99 year lease of US dollar issue in the 'federal reserve act' just ended. It was created, snuck by the public's notice.... in the middle of the night, at 11:45pm, December 24th, Christmas eve, in congress, in the year 1913.

The US should have ended the fed monopoly at this ending of the lease period, I think the world has bled enough for this cartel of control freaks.

Note that the vast number of people, are not aware with the follow up of Iceland's situation. The media simply won't report it. the media will report the horror, but they won't report the positive result when the also unreported actions where initiated and followed through on.

Iceland tore down their banks and put the people involved in jail. They did it quickly, and decisively.

And their financial bounceback is extreme and potent. And it is in solid favor to the country of Iceland and it's people.... and in extreme detriment to controlling financial corporations. They cut the parasite out, and ended their pain in a matter of months.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Great post KBK!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I believe it was Mulroney (1984-93) who took us in Canada off of making our own currency..and turned us to borrowing it from others. Now there is a man who's name should be cursed by all Canadians.

This means that what has gone on in the USA is our future. before, All 'dollars' where created either by banks in the realm of borrowing, or by direct creation by the Canadian government. NOW, the Canadian government is like the USA, they can't ever get out of debt from big international banks, as they don't even print their own money. And each dollar they issue, Canada's government now OWES more than there is to pay it back.

This means eventual and perpetual servitude to big banks. The equation is simple.

That every country that ever produced it's own currency, outside of big banks, has survived and done financially very well.

Every country that has not made it's own currency and issued it, has been under the thumb of some poorly or well hidden cartel.

Some like to make it appear more complex than that above, but in reality, it is not.

The axis of evil, as advertized in the popular media in the western world, are all the remaining few countries that have their own currency and issues their own currency.

Everyone else is financially tied to the banking cartels, regarding currency issuance,and subsequent, debt and control of finances and financial flows.

There is no fiscal cliff but that which controlled and scripted government offices wish to convey.

If the USA where to go back to issuing their own currency, all fiscal cliffs would go away in about 3 months and the USA would be in better shape than it has been in at least 75 years. It is well speculated that Kennedy died for this very reason of trying to remove the Fed and their associated systems. It is also in the evidential trail that all the pieces to do exactly that where in place, when he died. He had created them, and they where ready to go on line and live, just before he was assassinated.

(FYI, for those who don't know, the Fed is a private bank that has never been audited and profits from every US dollar issued. Which means the USA is in locked into perpetual debt to a banking cartel.)

A perpetual debt that can end today, as the 99 year lease of US dollar issue in the 'federal reserve act' just ended. It was created, snuck by the public's notice.... in the middle of the night, at 11:45pm, December 24th, Christmas eve, in congress, in the year 1913.

The US should have ended the fed monopoly at this ending of the lease period, I think the world has bled enough for this cartel of control freaks.

Note that the vast number of people, are not aware with the follow up of Iceland's situation. The media simply won't report it. the media will report the horror, but they won't report the positive result when the also unreported actions where initiated and followed through on.

Iceland tore down their banks and put the people involved in jail. They did it quickly, and decisively.

And their financial bounceback is extreme and potent. And it is in solid favor to the country of Iceland and it's people.... and in extreme detriment to controlling financial corporations. They cut the parasite out, and ended their pain in a matter of months.

I will gladly take a back seat and bow out of the conversation, as in all honesty I don't understand most of what you said. I'll leave the conversation now to the experts here.....

 

[es347]

Yessir nothing like guys who willingly spend $20K on a preamplifier waxing eloquent on how to fix a failed economy

 

[NorthStar]

Yessir nothing like guys who willingly spend $20K on a preamplifier waxing eloquent on how to fix a failed economy

---- And what is the point here exactly? ...The fact that one has a $2,000 preamp, another a $20,000 preamp, and/or one who has a $200,000 preamp.

I thought we were all equal regardless of our financial status. ...That everyone is entitled to express their opinion.

* A society is comprised of all social and economic classes; that's part of our government, our institutions, and a system of liberties and equalities are essential to a balanced freedom and peace; everywhere in the world. ...The respect of all humanity (all people), health for everyone, and respect of our planet by providing the necessary resources free of polluting and corruption and destruction.

The gap between the poor and the rich is just that, a gap; and in under no circumstances should be the basis of inequality between real human values from one class to another.

_________________

* $9 billions are going to Sandy's sinister people for rebuilding, and in January 15 they'll vote for the remaining balance, $51 billions. Some of these people are poor, without insurances, and others are rich, with insurances. ...But they are all equal in their tragedy's sharing. And no one should be left behind, just like in time of war.

 

[Bill Hart]

Yessir nothing like guys who willingly spend $20K on a preamplifier waxing eloquent on how to fix a failed economy

Funny.

 

[Bill Hart]

I believe it was Mulroney (1984-93) who took us in Canada off of making our own currency..and turned us to borrowing it from others. Now there is a man who's name should be cursed by all Canadians.

This means that what has gone on in the USA is our future. before, All 'dollars' where created either by banks in the realm of borrowing, or by direct creation by the Canadian government. NOW, the Canadian government is like the USA, they can't ever get out of debt from big international banks, as they don't even print their own money. And each dollar they issue, Canada's government now OWES more than there is to pay it back.

This means eventual and perpetual servitude to big banks. The equation is simple.

That every country that ever produced it's own currency, outside of big banks, has survived and done financially very well.

Every country that has not made it's own currency and issued it, has been under the thumb of some poorly or well hidden cartel.

Some like to make it appear more complex than that above, but in reality, it is not.

The axis of evil, as advertized in the popular media in the western world, are all the remaining few countries that have their own currency and issues their own currency.

Everyone else is financially tied to the banking cartels, regarding currency issuance,and subsequent, debt and control of finances and financial flows.

There is no fiscal cliff but that which controlled and scripted government offices wish to convey.

If the USA where to go back to issuing their own currency, all fiscal cliffs would go away in about 3 months and the USA would be in better shape than it has been in at least 75 years. It is well speculated that Kennedy died for this very reason of trying to remove the Fed and their associated systems. It is also in the evidential trail that all the pieces to do exactly that where in place, when he died. He had created them, and they where ready to go on line and live, just before he was assassinated.

(FYI, for those who don't know, the Fed is a private bank that has never been audited and profits from every US dollar issued. Which means the USA is in locked into perpetual debt to a banking cartel.)

A perpetual debt that can end today, as the 99 year lease of US dollar issue in the 'federal reserve act' just ended. It was created, snuck by the public's notice.... in the middle of the night, at 11:45pm, December 24th, Christmas eve, in congress, in the year 1913.

The US should have ended the fed monopoly at this ending of the lease period, I think the world has bled enough for this cartel of control freaks.

Note that the vast number of people, are not aware with the follow up of Iceland's situation. The media simply won't report it. the media will report the horror, but they won't report the positive result when the also unreported actions where initiated and followed through on.

Iceland tore down their banks and put the people involved in jail. They did it quickly, and decisively.

And their financial bounceback is extreme and potent. And it is in solid favor to the country of Iceland and it's people.... and in extreme detriment to controlling financial corporations. They cut the parasite out, and ended their pain in a matter of months.

I'm a little lost here myself. And I'm not being coy or provocative when I ask: Doesn't the US already issue its own currency? And that's part of the problem, in that the government can essentially print money? If we were tied to a different currency, we'd be in even bigger trouble. Or, if other countries decided not to use the US dollar as a measure of exchange, since our currency is devalued? I'm no expert on banking or international finance, nor am i trying to fence with you, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Hart

 

[es347]

---- And what is the point here exactly? ...The fact that one has a $2,000 preamp, another a $20,000 preamp, and/or one who has a $200,000 preamp.

I thought we were all equal regardless of our financial status. ...That everyone is entitled to express their opinion.

* A society is comprised of all social and economic classes; that's part of our government, our institutions, and a system of liberties and equalities are essential to a balanced freedom and peace; everywhere in the world. ...The respect of all humanity (all people), health for everyone, and respect of our planet by providing the necessary resources free of polluting and corruption and destruction.

The gap between the poor and the rich is just that, a gap; and in under no circumstances should be the basis of inequality between real human values from one class to another.

_________________

* $9 billions are going to Sandy's sinister people for rebuilding, and in January 15 they'll vote for the remaining balance, $51 billions. Some of these people are poor, without insurances, and others are rich, with insurances. ...But they are all equal in their tragedy's sharing. And no one should be left behind, just like in time of war.

Oh please now...geez

 

[NorthStar]

-- Ok, my wrong, I interpreted the content of your post for some' else. ..Or did I?

 

[A.wayne]

I'm a little lost here myself. And I'm not being coy or provocative when I ask: Doesn't the US already issue its own currency? And that's part of the problem, in that the government can essentially print money? If we were tied to a different currency, we'd be in even bigger trouble. Or, if other countries decided not to use the US dollar as a measure of exchange, since our currency is devalued? I'm no expert on banking or international finance, nor am i trying to fence with you, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Hart

The Federal dollar is backed by black gold, because oil continues to be priced in dollars there will always be a demand and the very reason why it has not collapse as yet and why current regime( as past) continues their attack on any despot opposed to this .....

Now name the countries with an independent banking system , i will give you a hint , one was iraq, the others have fallen in the last 24 months, the last hold out is Iran, all the others were taken down by "rebels" with american accents ....

Regards,

 

[Bill Hart]

The Federal dollar is backed by black gold, because oil continues to be priced in dollars there will always be a demand and the very reason why it has not collapse as yet and why current regime( as past) continues their attack on any despot opposed to this .....

Now name the countries with an independent banking system , i will give you a hint , one was iraq, the others have fallen in the last 24 months, the last hold out is Iran, all the others were taken down by "rebels" with american accents ....

Regards,

A.W. I understand that the dollar is an 'index' currency (not using it as a term of art, just as shorthand) . It was this statement of KBK's that I didn't understand: "If the USA where (sic) to go back to issuing their own currency, all fiscal cliffs would go away in about 3 months and the USA would be in better shape than it has been in at least 75 years...".
The implication was that the US was not issuing its own currency. Can you help?

 

[A.wayne]

Yes ,

The Corporation of the united states borrows money at interest from the privately held federal reserve bank, by doing so its citizens will always be in debt and under their control.

Currency is issued by the federal reserve bank at their discretion and under their control , so technically speaking he is correct ...

 

[Bill Hart]

Yes ,

The Corporation of the united states borrows money at interest from the privately held federal reserve bank, by doing so its citizens will always be in debt and under their control.

Currency is issued by the federal reserve bank at their discretion and under their control , so technically speaking he is correct ...

Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[edorr]

Yes ,

The Corporation of the united states borrows money at interest from the privately held federal reserve bank, by doing so its citizens will always be in debt and under their control.

Currency is issued by the federal reserve bank at their discretion and under their control , so technically speaking he is correct ...

Complete bogus. The Federal reserve system is a unique hybrid private / public construct, under congressional oversight, and with presidential appointments in key roles including the board of governers. All profits made by Federal reserve system accrue to the United States Treasury. Currency under the Federal reserve system is also created by the United States Department of the Treasury. If you are interested read up here. The US Treasury borrows from whoever is buying US debt, and like all other borrowers pays (very low) market rate interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System