MSB Premier or Lampi Pacific

Mike Lavigne

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btw; regarding that Richter/Listz vinyl. great recording i agree. but......

i own an early pressing and the Speaker's Corner re-issue. the re-issue is relatively very slightly muddy and the bass a bit bloated in direct comparison. the Speaker's Corner might be a touch quieter as far as noise, but less hall and the precision of the playing is just not quite there. the original is just more direct and energetic. maybe the original might be a touch hotter and in your face if your vinyl tends to go there. the 35mm recordings can be like that. it seems perfect on my CS Port/Etsuro Gold.

there are a number of cheap originals?/early pressings to choose from here;

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/4841406?ev=rb

fantastic, magical performance and excellent recording i agree. this was the A team recording the A team. essential.
 
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CKKeung

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I would say : mandatory!
 

bonzo75

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If this is the richter Liszt Philips, I have the 2nd pressing, I think.
 

bonzo75

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I read that the original RCA 35mm for Philips has two "Philips" logos at top on front cover. There is a sealed claimed "original" Philips at Discogs with one logo on top front cover. I'm confused now. Calling the General....

You have to look at the disc not the cover alone
 
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bonzo75

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Thanks Kedar. Hard to do when they are sealed. I've bought too many LPs claiming to be NM only to find they are noisy. If I can find a sealed copy at a reasonable price, I have started to buy those. We all know it can be challenging.

Sealed originals? :eek:
 

bonzo75

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You should look for hifi stereo written on a maroon label but that is expensive
 

marty

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Mike and CK,
No doubt that we are aligned on many if not most things yet there will always be room for friendly differing points of view. I think its important to recognize that some of the subtlety of these perspectives can be traced to the appreciation that the merits of any one component is always done in a setting of a system where the sounds one hears is always in the setting of the whole which include many elements in the reproduction chain. Many roads lead to Rome. Some are paved with tubes, others are paved with semiconductors, and some have both. All of them can potentially get you there. Happy listening to all.

Some year Mike, when we are allowed to travel again(!), I'll look forward to visiting the barn again so I can better appreciate the solid argument you have made in favor of the MSB.

As far as the Richter, I regret I wasn't smart enough to pick up the original when it was available and thus only have the Speaker's Corner version. I do think however, that part of its allure is that it was recorded on 35mm tape. The rest of its allure is all about Richter which is independent of the pressing. He was a towering giant of a pianist who displayed both demonic intensity (such as with Liszt here) or ravishing delicacy such as when playing Debussy. As Artur Rubenstein said "he sings with the piano". My favorite quote from an ordinary listener who said "Richter's playing seems to plug directly into the limbic system and you may find yourself experiencing his own reaction to beauty sadness, and pain". Indeed.
 

marty

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Sealed originals? :eek:

The problem, as any record collector knows, is that any LP can be re-sealed with a sealing machine. This was so common in LA during the late 70's that I finally gave up returning warped LPs, only to find that the so-called new ones were in many case just re-sealed LPs. (I think I returned one Linda Ronstadt album 6 times until the store owner told me not to come back.) Almost every record store in LA that sold any volume had a re-seal machine in their back room. Warpage is far less of a problem now and of course, there aren't many local high volume new LP stores anymore, but there are plenty of sealing machines around that I'm sure get a lot of use. Sometimes it's comforting to see a $3.99 price sticker on an older sealed LP, but it's not really a guarantee that it hasn't been re-sealed.
 
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kswanson27

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The problem, as any record collector knows, is that any LP can be re-sealed with a sealing machine. This was so common in LA during the late 70's that I finally gave up returning warped LPs, only to find that the so-called new ones were in many case just re-sealed LPs. (I think I returned one Linda Ronstadt album 6 times until the store owner told me not to come back.) Almost every record store in LA that sold any volume had a re-seal machine in their back room. Warpage is far less of a problem now and of course, there aren't many local high volume new LP stores anymore, but there are plenty of sealing machines around that I'm sure get a lot of use. Sometimes it's comforting to see a $3.99 price sticker on an older sealed LP, but it's not really a guarantee that it hasn't been re-sealed.
Apologies if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I like this music and am a Richter fan. There appear to be a few CDs available. Can anyone recommend the best one? Thanks.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apologies if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I like this music and am a Richter fan. There appear to be a few CDs available. Can anyone recommend the best one? Thanks.

it's a thread about dacs, and we are derailed talking about vinyl pressings. it's very on topic to send it back to digital. you are simply getting us back on.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?master_id=249612&ev=mb&format=CD

the cover is different from the Philips Lp. not heard this CD but it's also likely on Qobuz or Tidal, not looked yet.
 

PeterA

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it's a thread about dacs, and we are derailed talking about vinyl pressings. it's very on topic to send it back to digital. you are simply getting us back on.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?master_id=249612&ev=mb&format=CD

the cover is different from the Philips Lp. not heard this CD but it's also likely on Qobuz or Tidal, not looked yet.

Thanks Mike. I just wanted a couple of great LPs of piano music with which to become familiar, so that when I ever go back to hearing piano on one of my friend's DACs, I will know to listen for the particular attribute that you and Marty used to help you select your respective digital choices. I appreciate the references, both vinyl and digital that Marty provided and I really look forward to hearing the Richter. Back to digital it is.
 

astrotoy

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Marty thanks for your piano post. I have two or three different early pressings of the Richter Liszt. I believe this is the sequence of issue. The Richter was recorded by the Mercury team (Cozart, Fine, Eberenz, Piros), and first issued by Mercury under the Philips label in the US (after Phillips had reached an agreement with Mercury which eventually led to Philips buying Mercury). So the first issues have the RFR hand written in the dead wax, similar to the Mercury records of that time. Philips also pressing the records, so those have the typical printed numbers of Philips from that era. It was the first PHS 9 series record issued, PHS900-000. It was recorded on 35mm film, like the Mercury issues of that time. According to Discogs the earliest Philips releases were done in 1961, the year of the recording, and the Mercury US pressings were first released in 1962. I'm not sure that is correct, but I don't have better information than that.

This was Richter's first recording in the west and it is a sensational performance. His countryman Emil Gilels was recorded in the west earlier, and when he was (justly) praised for his pianism, he said "Wait until you hear Richter." My first vinyl exposure to Richter was his amazing mono live performance of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, recorded in Bulgaria, with a pretty noisy, coughing audience. It is absolutely magical. On Columbia ML5600 (I have it memorized after almost 60 years). The Liszt recording has 95 different releases according to Discogs.

So the best pressing is supposedly the first Mercury pressing which has the RFR in the deadwax. During that era the vinyl quality was variable, so the pressings can be noisy. However, the bass and high end extension of the Mercury pressings were (almost) always better than the Philips pressings which tracked more easily because they rolled off the bass and treble.

Larry
 

marty

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Apologies if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I like this music and am a Richter fan. There appear to be a few CDs available. Can anyone recommend the best one? Thanks.

"Best" is not easy to define here as Richter had probably the largest performance repertoire of any pianist who ever lived. There were two impressive collections released in 2015. The first was a 51 CD monster set by Decca (recordings from Decca, Philips, and DGG) , the other was a paltry 18 CD set (RCA and Columbia) which contained the legendary Carnegie Hall performances from 1960. Unfortunately, many early recordings are not what would be considered great quality and many are in mono. If it were me, I wouldn't buy anything since the better use of your time would be to explore streaming as your source for listening.
 

Mike Lavigne

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"Best" is not easy to define here as Richter had probably the largest performance repertoire of any pianist who ever lived. There were two impressive collections released in 2015. The first was a 51 CD monster set by Decca (recordings from Decca, Philips, and DGG) , the other was a paltry 18 CD set (RCA and Columbia) which contained the legendary Carnegie Hall performances from 1960. Unfortunately, many early recordings are not what would be considered great quality and many are in mono. If it were me, I wouldn't buy anything since the better use of your time would be to explore streaming as your source for listening.

i looked yesterday on streaming (Tidal and Quboz) and just a quick look at Richter and Listz brought up 20+ albums.

and that is just Listz.
 

GSOphile

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Apologies if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I like this music and am a Richter fan. There appear to be a few CDs available. Can anyone recommend the best one? Thanks.
I'm looking also. Two that I find interesting are Philips 446 200-2 with Liszt's Piano Sonata, 1995 remaster; and Philips Classics 464 710-2 with Beethoven Piano Sonatas 10,19 &20, 2001 24-bit remaster. Both of these have extensive reviews on Amazon, several of which go into considerable detail on SQ.
 

Mike Lavigne

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this is the 16/44 album on Quboz or Tidal......the Listz 1st is an astonishing transfer. i was pretty blown away. it shows the 16/44 file is from a 96/24 transfer. i did check HD Tracks for the file but came up empty. but this one is superb as a streaming 16/44 to my ears.

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