Fair points, BUT, perhaps cheap, True 100% galvanic isolation may come up. Optical advances, new composite materials that shiled or conduct better for the cases, and any host of wild and unlikely but still possible things.
MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.
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Yes all of those things are part of the USB/Ethernet input board. This requires absolutely no alterations to the 4 components I listed.
As discussed earlier in this thread. The standard method of coming up with MSRP for an audio product sold through a dealer network is BOM x 5-6. Those 4 main components are where the bulk of the BOM goes. Probably around 70%.
So why have everyone buy those components over and over if it's unnecessary? It hurts dealers too when they paid for inventory and have to dump it for deep discounts if it's not sold at the time the new models roll out. It's a lose lose for everyone, besides manufacturers of course.
But with awareness in the audiophile community, manufacturers who don't build this way will be the ones who are hurt, rather than the dealers and consumers.
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I know that you can. That was the point. Guess that one flew over the radar
Hard to tell if your supporting the idea or not. As it would be extremely rare around here if your were.
Modularity almost always increases the interconnection path. You have to down to the connector through the main board and up the other. The longer length allows more opportunity for noise pick up, increases radiation, etc. Now a DAC like MSB is meticulously designed to avoid such things as far as possible. I suspect the same team though could do better if they were told to not make it modular.
BTW when I bought my Mark Levins No36S years and years ago, its manual raved about upgradability. Yet the device was never upgraded and can't go above 96 Khz sampling.
Upgradability is fine if you can anticipate all the functionality you think you are going to need in the future. Such crystal balls are rarely that clear.
For a DAC, I personally see no value or reason to have them be upgradable. If you are buying a $50K or more DAC, you can porbably turn that in to your dealer and upgrade for another. It is not like money would be that much of an issue to such a person.
Upgradability is fine if you can anticipate all the functionality you think you are going to need in the future. Such crystal balls are rarely that clear.
For a DAC, I personally see no value or reason to have them be upgradable. If you are buying a $50K or more DAC, you can porbably turn that in to your dealer and upgrade for another. It is not like money would be that much of an issue to such a person.
I do agree with you Amir although I think that Lampizator is the only company that bucks this trend as the upgrades are very affordable.
I am dumb and stupid about Lampizator Bill because I have not looked at it . I think if someone asked me to design a new DAC, saying it must be modular is a handcuff put on me. It is not helpful to me or every DAC designer would opt to go there.
. I think if someone asked me to design a new DAC, saying it must be modular is a handcuff put on me. It is not helpful to me or every DAC designer would opt to go there.
With proper engineering and layout, the consequence is so minimal that it becomes a non issue. Let's have a look at the Resonessence Mirus for example. It was designed by one of the most anal measurement guys in the industry. And it shows when you look at the specs, not just subjective tests.
The only thing on seperate boards is the DAC chips and analog output stage. The connections to these boards are very low resistance, and they verified this with the best AP measurement gear in existence.
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I think we have reached the point of knowledge where designs can finally be built modular without fear of not being able to withstand a 10 year life cycle.
I am dumb and stupid about Lampizator Bill because I have not looked at it
There's a lot more to consider when going down this path. Manufacturers love rolling out fresh new products because after all the reviews have been done, the interest dies off and sales decrease. So they roll out something fresh, and they can create all the hype again. I think this can still be accomplished with solid upgrades. And also build real value into the brand.
They buck the trend out of necessity. Because half of what they build comes pre-built by 3rd parties. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't have parts to build their product.
Why can't be dealt with buying one thing and keeping it? That is what I have done. I now spend my money on music. That's their game. This is mine
.That is why I am in favor of not having this obligation. I don't want to spend engineering, design and testing resources on something other than making a DAC produce excellent sound.
Those connectors by the way can also age, loosen, build corrosion, etc. Yes, there are good connectors out there but if we are to accept that any interconnect has a sound, and this and that type of conductive material is important, how does one deal with the way those connectors act and work in this regard?
Now, the one thing that I like as a consumer in modularity is repair. It is nice to be able to remove boards to work on them, see if they are causing a short, etc. So it is not without benefit but from "getting the best sound" it is a barrier. One that can be climbed over as you say but why insist on having such barriers as criteria for purchase if sound quality is king?
Why can't be dealt with buying one thing and keeping it? That is what I have done. I now spend my money on music. That's their game. This is mine
Yes that's one solution, but it's just reality that many audiophiles always want the latest and greatest technology. Besides, it there any drawback to having solid resale value for a period of 10 years? Even if you don't want to sell or upgrade.
Well the reason for this is to offer the consumer a product with lasting value.
The connectors are gold plated beryllium copper. they will never corrode. They are held together with standoffs and nut's, they will never loosen. Connections are connections, whether they are solder connections, or via connectors. Many DAC's have extra connections than this for multiple 3rd party chips such as Xmos for USB, rather than rolling their own code and incorporating it all inside the main FPGA Like resonessence has done. This has a greater effect on sound than the high quality connections to the DAC boards would have. It's the sum of all the engineering that makes the end product.
I just firmly believe any DAC can but built to be competitive, or exceed the sound of non-modular DAC's in the sound department, with the benefit modularity brings. The Mirus is a great example. I haven't heard a better sounding $5000 commercial DAC yet. This is why they are so hard to find on the used market. Owners simply don't want to sell.
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I noticed your 10/10 specimen offered for 40% below MSRP has not sold yet on audiogon.... Seems like at least 40% of that lasting value did not really last that long
I noticed your 10/10 specimen offered for 40% below MSRP has not sold yet on audiogon.... Seems like at least 40% of that lasting value did not really last that long
So if it doesn't sell after 1 day on Audiogon, does that mean it will never sell? I do agree the brand isn't as well known as many. Their marketing strategy is quite weak.
No sir. My point is that if everyone does modular then everyone does the same DAC within a small delta.
I think your highlights are the upgrading and servicing of the unit. Easy to replace modular parts and like with your Mirus, easy to update to latest and greatest chip.
But because a few parts can be upgraded easily doesn't mean that it is implemented well in business or that everyone should do it and most importantly doesn't mean that it is the best for sound quality. I never got that part with all of your supporting facts.
This is the part that is very important. You let me disagree with you and not insist that your way is still better. Heard all your points and still disagree and it is ok
The point is when you build a DAC out of several 3rd party pre assembled products, you don't have the option to build them on a single cleanly laid out board anyways. This is not saying it a bad way to do things, it's just saying some manufacturers completely build everything from scratch from raw components. So they have the luxury to make the decision to build modular, or all on 1 board.
