I'd suggest if Mike or anyone else want to post more on their MSB experiences they should open another thread. This thread has the title "MSB Select II arrival", and yes, the unit has arrived and a number of initial impressions have been posted, so the thread title has been fulfilled. This thread has now run its MSB course, as it were. No wonder, given so few have heard the MSB unit and as has been said, many can only admire from afar.
MSB Select II arrival
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
I'd suggest if Mike or anyone else want to post more on their MSB experiences they should open another thread. This thread has the title "MSB Select II arrival", and yes, the unit has arrived and a number of initial impressions have been posted, so the thread title has been fulfilled. This thread has now run its MSB course, as it were. No wonder, given so few have heard the MSB unit and as has been said, many can only admire from afar.
I am glad that this thread has spawned so much discussion of quality on digital in general, which has been very interesting. There is no need to label such discussion as 'distractions'.
I agree, Mike should now start a thread called MSB in house and playing. And, should he sell it, which is highly unlikely, he should start one called MSB Exit.
Al M.,
I completely disagree with such advice. This is Mike thread on the MSB Select II, and should go on reporting on his great DAC in his system. I (and I think many others) expect a lot more from this thread and that this "arrival" lasts for long.
IMHO we are the ones that should move our side debates to other threads.
my reaction was to your unnecessary comment....
....dismissing the thread topic and declaring open season on any damn direction for the thread. and yes, writing that was a shot you consciously took. I had no comment about thread direction until you made it an issue.
I/we have 2nd power supplies coming, and I have many more turns in the road ahead learning about the Select II.
if I were to post that comment on the Aries Cerat Kassandra II Ref DAC thread what might you say? it would not start with 'tryng to be respectful' i'll bet.
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I guess we need more folk to come in and do other comparisons. That will happen over time I would guess. But top respect to Mike for his detailed appraisals so far.
One of the issues with high end DACs, or any high end gear into these lofty (insane?) price brackets, is you tend to hear them at shows in various systems and none optimised rooms (often a compromise rental suite at a hotel), and with unfamiliar music. There are few dealers who carry the top contenders in-site. This means we are asking each other opinions, but we would ideally want to do those ourselves with our own ears.
The Lampizator and TotalDAC buying offer is a good idea IMO, where you 'buy' the DAC, and have some days to decide if you want to keep it. This gets around an awkward impasse with this niche hobby. Those two manufacturers sell direct, so others that don't do that have to rely on dealer demo's, or buyers who are prepared to buy cold. In this price range that is a rare thing. Also dealer demo's are difficult if they don't carry the DACs you want to compare to each other....
I was at Can-Jam in London, and although different gear is interesting as I got to hear the Stax 009s, LCD 4s and Focal Utopia within 5 minutes of each other and using my same cluster of tracks. It was brilliant, a really great way to 'hot' compare gear, and gave me the info I was after. Advice on forums is a nice part of that journey, but the cheque book time is a real life demo or try out for real IMO v other alternatives.
I have buddies who do the 'try and sell' route with used gear. That can go on for years in some cases. It is addictive for sure. I read posts where I became convinced I was missing something, or it is a must have add on box or different DAC. In many cases it may be a sideways step or a micro step up, but a step that costs thousands to get it. This can lead into IMO a feeling others have got there, and I have to get there as well. I can't enjoy music without it. Possibly, probably not, but I enjoy my system so much already.
It is fascinating all this, but I am not selling the Grandmas' house to get there. You get my drift. It is a hobby, not life support.
One of the issues with high end DACs, or any high end gear into these lofty (insane?) price brackets, is you tend to hear them at shows in various systems and none optimised rooms (often a compromise rental suite at a hotel), and with unfamiliar music. There are few dealers who carry the top contenders in-site. This means we are asking each other opinions, but we would ideally want to do those ourselves with our own ears.
The Lampizator and TotalDAC buying offer is a good idea IMO, where you 'buy' the DAC, and have some days to decide if you want to keep it. This gets around an awkward impasse with this niche hobby. Those two manufacturers sell direct, so others that don't do that have to rely on dealer demo's, or buyers who are prepared to buy cold. In this price range that is a rare thing. Also dealer demo's are difficult if they don't carry the DACs you want to compare to each other....
I was at Can-Jam in London, and although different gear is interesting as I got to hear the Stax 009s, LCD 4s and Focal Utopia within 5 minutes of each other and using my same cluster of tracks. It was brilliant, a really great way to 'hot' compare gear, and gave me the info I was after. Advice on forums is a nice part of that journey, but the cheque book time is a real life demo or try out for real IMO v other alternatives.
I have buddies who do the 'try and sell' route with used gear. That can go on for years in some cases. It is addictive for sure. I read posts where I became convinced I was missing something, or it is a must have add on box or different DAC. In many cases it may be a sideways step or a micro step up, but a step that costs thousands to get it. This can lead into IMO a feeling others have got there, and I have to get there as well. I can't enjoy music without it. Possibly, probably not, but I enjoy my system so much already.
It is fascinating all this, but I am not selling the Grandmas' house to get there. You get my drift. It is a hobby, not life support.
Micro, you know full well that this is not how the internet works.
There is a subforum here for system/equipment discussions that keeps the focus and avoids any side shows, the Member's Gallery. It is sacred ground, respected by all members. Everything else is fair game -- obviously.
***
If you include yourself in the "IMHO we are the ones", then please feel free to start other threads that focus on the current side debates and move them out of this thread.
How does the MSB Analog DAC compare to the Select? Do they allow you to non oversample the data stream? Both are strictly ladder converters correct?
Agreed microstrip.
Mine is already at home. Tonight it will be installed and I will report my findings after, now only with USB.
Next I will be interested in how Select owners will implement the Renderer, when it arrives.
I reported my findings about the Renderer, in the Diamond V directly connected to the PC, without router or switch.
I'm interested to learn how can we implement the new renderer witch is Roon ready and will enable different solutions.
Regards.
Mine is already at home. Tonight it will be installed and I will report my findings after, now only with USB.
Next I will be interested in how Select owners will implement the Renderer, when it arrives.
I reported my findings about the Renderer, in the Diamond V directly connected to the PC, without router or switch.
I'm interested to learn how can we implement the new renderer witch is Roon ready and will enable different solutions.
Regards.
Marty, prices are so different between the 2 that the question seems unfair. Better to compare the S2 to the Ref, for example.
I have never heard the Sel2, but ears I trust have wonderful feedback about it. I heard the Sel1 and was underwhelmed. I have been told by reliable people that the Two is waaay beyond the One in SQ. Different Dac really, even though much of the change is only software.
Sorry but no one OWNS a thread...to think so is just silly. Long threads nearly always meander on and off topic as people chime in about parts that interest them, which could be quite tangential to the OP. This is standard internet behavior. IMO, all threads are "open season"...if no one responds to the side topic posts they will die rather quickly and you can get back to navel gazing...
If there had been 900+ posts on the subject of the Kassandra DAC and you suggested to move on it wouldn't bother me in the least...by that time I would figure what needs to be said had already been said.
Great! Once you get the second power supply I look forward to hearing your revised impressions...changes = new observations.
We seem to be happy with thread going on the way it is going, you are the one wanting to change things ...
And yes, I would immediately move "distractions" to other threads if I felt the subjects I was addressing were jeopardizing or completely unrelated to Mike's thread.
+1. I will likely never own the Select. But reading the post, with all its meanderings has been informative and educational. Anytime I learn something, that's a good thing. My vote is to let the thread continue as is.
the issue is not the thread direction, ITS YOUR COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never criticized yours or anyone else's comments. only your statement about the thread direction. jeez guys, read what I wrote.
I have the Analog DAC and recently heard the Reference in my system, so I can give some sort of feedback albeit not to full Select 2 status. The biggest difference is in liquidity, decay, and overall relaxation (continuousness another way to say it). The Reference does this in spades unlike digital I have heard before. Ironically, the Reference also has a drive factor that is very addicting and overall weight in the bass is excellent. The Analog doesn't have the new "hybrid dacs" that its bigger brothers have, although yes, they are discrete ladder dacs. I do think the Analog dac has good tone and 3d portrayal of space which is a weakness of digital in my experience.
But its a clear step behind and not just on an incremental basis like much of digital. I have had several listening sessions since the demo to confirm this. Note, I do not have the upgraded Analog DAC power base.
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Well, you said, "IMHO we are the ones that should move our side debates to other threads". So you did seem to suggest there is a problem.
But if you think there isn't a problem after all, then I agree with you
Well, you said, "IMHO we are the ones that should move our side debates to other threads". So you did seem to suggest there is a problem.
But if you think there isn't a problem after all, then I agree with you
The statement bellow is was what I disagreed with. Happy to know it did not happen and there isn't a problem after all. I think forums enrich with long threads as long as they do not become circular.
IMHO two interesting lines in this thread would be the digital processing of the MSB Select II and its DAC chip. All I could find is that it uses eight hybrid DACs - a very ambiguous find, I must say.
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