MSB Select II arrival
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Well, I heard the Select with mono bases last weekend and can totally understand what you're hearing Mike. Just so much drive, but without taking away any of the flow and liquidity. Truly an amazing piece.
My one question is that you seem to have pretty "tweaked out" system - I can only think that at this high level, if you took the tweaks out and re-inserted one by one that you might find that less is more in line with your philosophy.
My one question is that you seem to have pretty "tweaked out" system - I can only think that at this high level, if you took the tweaks out and re-inserted one by one that you might find that less is more in line with your philosophy.
Rather than the Stromtank you might consider an industrial/medical battery based regenerator. You can get 20Amps of very clean power that's completely decoupled from the incoming line. I put a massive balanced transformer downstream of that which then feeds my gear.
Thanks for the report - I will download the Book 2. It will be a nice change from my usual Claudio Arrau version on Philips. Time for a younger pianist, Arrau recorded it in his late 70's. Do we also get the 2xdsd when we buy the 4xdsd version?
BTW, just noticed this recording was carried using the Pyramix / Horus system - the same system used in the Savall recording that changed my perspectives on digital!
Marc, my comments
were not a blanket statement, or 'call'....... they were only related to textural detail. and on the best digital that is what I'm hearing.
your avoidance or personal dismissal of the best sounding digital is your choice, which i respect. but like food, until you taste you don't know what you are missing.
and I'm investigating what the format can do, not limiting myself to music from particular time periods. there are lots of great performances and recordings from obscure artists. if i don't find the best possible recordings, what value are my conclusions? i don't limit myself to those, but some are useful to most tell me differences. and my work to optimize things helps all recordings. a rising tide raises all ships.
you go your way, i go mine. personally; i want it all.
Sure Mike, no criticism intended.
I've been at a handful of audiophile pressing/direct to disc demos, and find I struggle w the material played.
I believe it's a major reason why many have avoided moving to 15ips tape as well, other than cost, we're not all enamoured w audiophile label Native Hi Rez catalog.
But each to their own, if you MUST have it all, then you MUST...LOL
I've been at a handful of audiophile pressing/direct to disc demos, and find I struggle w the material played.
I believe it's a major reason why many have avoided moving to 15ips tape as well, other than cost, we're not all enamoured w audiophile label Native Hi Rez catalog.
But each to their own, if you MUST have it all, then you MUST...LOL
Earl,
i think it's fair to say at this point the Select II with Mono powerbases is now solid steps closer to my vinyl than I've ever heard from digital before. but it's still early for any clear implications of that. and......maybe my vinyl can be improved too.
that's the way this works, nothing is static.
Alex and Bruce,
I'm quite happy with the power grid performance from my Equi=tech 10WQ balanced isolation transformer and the Furutech NCF outlets and power cord plugs. and in the short term i don't anticipate any investigation of alternatives such as the Stromtank. but at some future point i'll likely try it, or maybe someone will bring one over to try.
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based on the Acoustic Sounds website, each resolution level is purchased separately. i do own both and the regular dsd level too, as the producer is a good friend.
the 2xdsd is very good.
Marc, i apologize if i came across as harsh or offended, i did not take your comments as criticism.
Dear Mr. Lavigne,
I have from time to time follow this thread and saw repeated questions asking whether your digital fronts now equal vinyl. Suppose it is equal to vinyl, could an equal-to-vinyl digital possibly has different flavors like for example when we change cartridges. Or do they all sound alike in an equal-to-vinyl way.
Thank you for keep posting your path on digital. With all resource and efforts you put in, I hope your digital sounds even better than your vinyl.
Kind regards,
Tang
I have from time to time follow this thread and saw repeated questions asking whether your digital fronts now equal vinyl. Suppose it is equal to vinyl, could an equal-to-vinyl digital possibly has different flavors like for example when we change cartridges. Or do they all sound alike in an equal-to-vinyl way.
Thank you for keep posting your path on digital. With all resource and efforts you put in, I hope your digital sounds even better than your vinyl.
Kind regards,
Tang
Hi Mike, sure.
Just healthy give and take.
We both run balanced power, we're guaranteed to stay nicely balanced twds each other.
Look, my reticence to audiophile label Hi Rez notwithstanding, it's great to hear that you're getting, if not a matching of digital and analog, then somewhat of a grand convergence.
As I alluded to in a previous post, at a level not QUITE as stellar as yours, I'm getting something of the same phenomenon.
Never in a million years would I ever have believed I would have said my digital does SO many things as well as analog.
But it's taken massive attention to detail re room acoustics, dedicated lines, upgraded balanced power, and critically the combination of Stacore isolation and Sablon Reserva Elite power cords.
These last two changes are just liberating the midband texture in my digital that I only really hear from analog.
My tt is due for reinstall soon, and I'm considering a very interesting direct drive example, because I think I'm going to be compelled to up the ante in analog front end to gain pre eminence.
I have to, our friendly leader Ron Resnick won't stand for me declaring digital on top for long LOL.
Hi Ron
Just healthy give and take.
We both run balanced power, we're guaranteed to stay nicely balanced twds each other.
Look, my reticence to audiophile label Hi Rez notwithstanding, it's great to hear that you're getting, if not a matching of digital and analog, then somewhat of a grand convergence.
As I alluded to in a previous post, at a level not QUITE as stellar as yours, I'm getting something of the same phenomenon.
Never in a million years would I ever have believed I would have said my digital does SO many things as well as analog.
But it's taken massive attention to detail re room acoustics, dedicated lines, upgraded balanced power, and critically the combination of Stacore isolation and Sablon Reserva Elite power cords.
These last two changes are just liberating the midband texture in my digital that I only really hear from analog.
My tt is due for reinstall soon, and I'm considering a very interesting direct drive example, because I think I'm going to be compelled to up the ante in analog front end to gain pre eminence.
I have to, our friendly leader Ron Resnick won't stand for me declaring digital on top for long LOL.
Hi Ron
I think the concept of convergence is an interesting one. As each medium improves, and is referenced toward a common goal - the sound of the real thing, it only makes sense that they would sound more similar than different. I have heard a similar convergence with the best SS and tube electronics, for instance. And now, dynamic/cone speakers are advancing in terms of transparency and speed that some think they are beginning to sound like panels. It is a great time to be interested in audio.
Dear Mr. Tango,
first let me say that we are/I am not at the point of equating digital, any digital, to top level vinyl. I know you used the term 'suppose', but we are not all careful readers here.
but as far as 'flavors' of specifically digital that we in theory view as on the same level as vinyl, I cannot see how they might all sound the same. yet; I would agree that the differences likely would not be as great as the variable between different versions of top level vinyl, based on my experiences comparing various digital products, compared to all the vinyl playback gear I've owned. that is no proof, but just my sense about that question.
OTOH based on the level of effort it seems to have taken to get to the level of the Select II with mono powerbases, it's possible that the digital that does end up equaling vinyl might all sound essentially the same (there might not be more than one.....or two).
my goal has never been for my digital to surpass vinyl or anything like that, it's been to find maximum enjoyment and musical truth from my digital music files. maybe because of my long term support of vinyl and tape, and using it as my reference, it is assumed that was my goal. it's logical that others might be curious how close it comes, and that's no problem. I enjoy the discussion.
I do appreciate being able to switch back and forth based on the music from digital to vinyl to tape and not be (even a little bit) bummed it's only on digital. that.....opens up the whole world of music to me....and enriches my listening sessions.
and I will be watching for more feedback on your acquisition of the EMT 927; congrats on that!
best regards,
Mike
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I've been playing around with the Select II over the last week or so, trying to find the upper limits of what it can do.
a week ago I tried my short 1.25m 'zeel' BNC interconnect substituting for the 'uber' expensive Tara Labs GME w/HFX rca's......between the Select II and the dart pre. i'm using rca->BNC adapters on the ends to work with the RCA outputs on the Select II. and.....I liked it a little bit better, and that's eliminating the grounding advantage of the $31k list price Tara, and dealing with a less than optimized 75 ohm output of the RCA outputs. just that little bit more 'there' and immediate.
then I made the big jump, removing the dart pre and going direct from the Select II to the dart monos with the 8m Evolution Acoustics 'zeel' BNC's (with adapters). i liked this a lot......and listened this way for a week. went back and forth once. the 'direct' was a bit more open and spacious, with the dart pre in there was a bit more meat and tighter soundstage. half way through i realized i had forgot to move the Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable from the dart pre to the Select II when i went direct. this added quite a bit of dimensionality and coherence to the music when i used it on the Select II going direct.
i was on the fence on this move, so yesterday i asked my local friend jazdoc to come over and lend his ears to the question. his take was similar to mine, but his feeling was that the dart pre added something more essential than what it gave up when removed. his sonic compass and mine are not the same, so i was not surprised with his perspective. he felt that the additional high frequency energy (my term is more open) of going direct would get old after awhile.
then he had a suggestion which turned out to be the right answer. use the dart pre, but leave the Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable on the Select II instead of switching it to the dart pre. this took things to another level altogether. more dimensional, coherent, and greater ease. quite a profound step forward.
thank you jazdoc, you are my hero. i'm loving this step forward.
so today i knew what i had to do.......and called Miguel Alverez of Tripoint in South Florida (his mind was focused on Irma headed his way) and was lucky that he happened to have a 1 meter Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable he could send me. it will be here tomorrow afternoon. both the dart pre and the Select II will be able to use the Thor SE MR level cable.
best wishes to Miguel and all those in Florida in the path of Irma.
next; i need to report back to MSB that we need to modify an RCA output module with the 50 ohm BNC's so i get 100% of the benefit of that approach......to fully synergize with the dart pre.
i will report what i hear with the new cable. but things are really sounding amazing.
a week ago I tried my short 1.25m 'zeel' BNC interconnect substituting for the 'uber' expensive Tara Labs GME w/HFX rca's......between the Select II and the dart pre. i'm using rca->BNC adapters on the ends to work with the RCA outputs on the Select II. and.....I liked it a little bit better, and that's eliminating the grounding advantage of the $31k list price Tara, and dealing with a less than optimized 75 ohm output of the RCA outputs. just that little bit more 'there' and immediate.
then I made the big jump, removing the dart pre and going direct from the Select II to the dart monos with the 8m Evolution Acoustics 'zeel' BNC's (with adapters). i liked this a lot......and listened this way for a week. went back and forth once. the 'direct' was a bit more open and spacious, with the dart pre in there was a bit more meat and tighter soundstage. half way through i realized i had forgot to move the Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable from the dart pre to the Select II when i went direct. this added quite a bit of dimensionality and coherence to the music when i used it on the Select II going direct.
i was on the fence on this move, so yesterday i asked my local friend jazdoc to come over and lend his ears to the question. his take was similar to mine, but his feeling was that the dart pre added something more essential than what it gave up when removed. his sonic compass and mine are not the same, so i was not surprised with his perspective. he felt that the additional high frequency energy (my term is more open) of going direct would get old after awhile.
then he had a suggestion which turned out to be the right answer. use the dart pre, but leave the Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable on the Select II instead of switching it to the dart pre. this took things to another level altogether. more dimensional, coherent, and greater ease. quite a profound step forward.
thank you jazdoc, you are my hero. i'm loving this step forward.
so today i knew what i had to do.......and called Miguel Alverez of Tripoint in South Florida (his mind was focused on Irma headed his way) and was lucky that he happened to have a 1 meter Thor SE Master Reference Grounding cable he could send me. it will be here tomorrow afternoon. both the dart pre and the Select II will be able to use the Thor SE MR level cable.
best wishes to Miguel and all those in Florida in the path of Irma.
next; i need to report back to MSB that we need to modify an RCA output module with the 50 ohm BNC's so i get 100% of the benefit of that approach......to fully synergize with the dart pre.
i will report what i hear with the new cable. but things are really sounding amazing.
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1 + 1 Tripoint Thor se = sonically more than 2 Tripoint Thor se' s. Somehow these Thor se cables enhance eachothers performance. You will be in for a real audio treat once your second Tripoint Thor se cable has settled. Enjoy (and keep us posted).
Talked yesterday to Miguel about Irma: there is still hope that it will not hit Florida with full force.
Talked yesterday to Miguel about Irma: there is still hope that it will not hit Florida with full force.
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thanks Rudolf, you would know about this for sure. makes sense there would be additive synergy to the individual performance of the cables.
i know you have a 'bunch' of those Thor SE's.
Mike, you are too kind.
I hadn't heard the big digital rig since the arrival of the 2nd power supply. This is simply the best digital I've ever heard. Some of the well recorded digital i.e. Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests", where every bit as good as excellent analog. It appears that the gap between the best analog and best digital has closed substantially in the past couple of years and in the best systems, you are only constrained by the the software quality. Can't wait to hear the 2nd grounding cable in the system!
PS - Thank you for the wonderful hospitality.
Hello Mike,
Maybe when I mentioned to you a while ago to try connecting Tripoint to your Select II, you thought that I meant to connect it to your pre. I tried for fun connecting Tripoint to both JmF transport and the Acqua dac, the improvement in sound were probably the same as what you experienced but different in magnitude because my digitals are just kindergarten level. I also did try switching the Power cord that came with JMF (JMF top pc) to my Siltech Tripple Crown. The improvement was even bigger than using Tripoint. There was another Thai guy tried putting just one Tripple Crown to one of his DCS four stack, the result was also an OOH AHH kind of happy reaction.
Kind regards,
Tang
hello Tang,
you were correct. I've had the Tripoint Troy Signature connected all along to the Select II and my SGM server with the standard Tripoint grounding cables, but had not tried the Thor there before. somehow, the Thor on the source had more significance. (garbage in, garbage out). and, of course, now I have the second power supply which might magnify the differences (it does make everything better, so that makes sense).
Miguel had always said preamps were most significant for the Thor. but mine is battery powered so maybe that's important.
i'm all OOH AHH 'over the moon' right now about this sound just putting the Thor SE Master Ref grounding on the Select II. not messed with different power cords or such things but feel pretty good about my whole power grid. not sure I want to wade into the 'ultra-uber' power cord thing.
Steve will now understandably coming running in about Masterbuilt.i'll just have to be satisfied with another Thor SE Master Ref on the dart pre for now. i'm still in $$$ recovery mode from my Select II and 2nd power supply investment.
best regards,
Mike
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Your beautiful Clark Kent barn
surrounded by mountain very likely need no uber power cord. I really envy people who has clean public power. Thanks again for doing expensive works and share your experiences in uber digital. Its been educational and fun watching your progress.
Kind regards,
Tang
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