MSB Select II arrival

[microstrip]

thank you Tang. beautiful. lots of Tripoint reality there for sure. heading that way as I can rationalize doing so.

my next Tripoint step will be another box for the speaker area. could be the Empress, but I already have the Entreq working well with my bass amp chassis grounding and negative outputs of my mono blocks. I know the Empress would take that to a higher level. maybe for the chassis ground on the mono blocks.

The three Tripoint grounding points are electrically insulated from each other?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The three Tripoint grounding points are electrically insulated from each other?

in past discussions I've had with Miguel he told me that there is sufficient separation between the three posts on the Troy Sig that no short should occur if used as ground for negative speaker terminals. that said, he has built a two box design called 'Empress' just for grounding those negative speaker terminals (Tang has a set of those pictured above).

personally I would not risk using the Troy Sig for that duty. 'sufficient separation' falls short of absolute separation, and would not risk melt down with my spendy amps.

the Entreq Poseidon I have is 3 completely separated boxes electrically insulated from each other which is what I'm using for that function now. and I'm happy with what it's doing. which is why I would use another Tripoint box to ground the mono block chassis which I'm not currently doing.

 

[microstrip]

in past discussions I've had with Miguel he told me that there is sufficient separation between the three posts on the Troy Sig that no short should occur if used as ground for negative speaker terminals. that said, he has built a two box design called 'Empress' just for grounding those negative speaker terminals (Tang has a set of those pictured above).

personally I would not risk using the Troy Sig for that duty. 'sufficient separation' falls short of absolute separation, and would not risk melt down with my spendy amps.

the Entreq Poseidon I have is 3 completely separated boxes electrically insulated from each other which is what I'm using for that function now. and I'm happy with what it's doing. which is why I would use another Tripoint box to ground the mono block chassis which I'm not currently doing.

Sorry, what is meant by separation in this case? Insulation?

Don't you feel that mixing Entreq and Tripoint you can be missing a lot? It would seem much more logical (in this illogical hobby to pick the Empress!

 

[Tango]

my next Tripoint step will be another box for the speaker area. could be the Empress, but I already have the Entreq working well with my bass amp chassis grounding and negative outputs of my mono blocks. I know the Empress would take that to a higher level. maybe for the chassis ground on the mono blocks.

Sawasdee Mike,

I like Tripoint products. They work very well in my system. To be honest to you, the Empress which is the most expensive disappointed me in term of price/performance comparing to the Troy and Dalby ground wire (I dont have the Thor). A few guys raved so much about the Empress in AE forum, may be it is just not "destined" to work super well with my spearkers. Not that the Empress doesnt improve sound. It really does in the same way the Troy and the Thor do. If I disconnect the Empress from my speakers negative terminals, I will feel that the sound is a bit coarse right away. But it is so very expensive that I expect more from it. For the money, I say invest in the Troy and the Thor and hook them to all your fronts and amps. Grounding the amps in my case works even better than the Pre and Phono. My amps are SET and I had a special gorund post made for me. Too bad, Rudolph cannot ground his Kondo .

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sorry, what is meant by separation in this case? Insulation?

I would leave the definition of this technical term to others, like yourself, who have the understanding. the Entreq Poseidon is three separate electrically separated boxes in one chassis. I've been using this with my amps for 18 months now, so it seems to be separate in use. obviously the Tripoint Empress is 2 separate boxes, so it's separate.

Don't you feel that mixing Entreq and Tripoint you can be missing a lot? It would seem much more logical (in this illogical hobby to pick the Empress!

I don't exactly know the cost of the 2 box Empress, but I'm guessing it's likely 10x the cost of the Poseidon ($50k <-> $5k) plus the ground cables are similarly more costly.

not sure we can say whether it's better or worse to mix them. I've messed around to some degree adding and removing and so far the more boxes the better. Entreq is signal path grounding primarily and not connected to the power grid ground. Tripoint is chassis grounding and connected to the power grid ground. many hundreds of posts have been written about how these products compare......and compatibility.

since the entry cost is so much less with the Entreq one tends to go there first and then add the Tripoint when one can. so you end up with both.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, going for the very top Troy products is a serious financial outlay.
I'm very much on my own path to Nirvana/madness with my planned expenditure on passive isolation platforms under all my gear, at least 8 Stacores.
All I would say to you is don't shelve maxxing isolation under yr components (you have 3 Msb boxes now) to go uber grounding solely.
For the guy who can afford both...

 

[RogerD]

I don't have any experience with either Entreq or Troy,both should be compatible. I would let my ear be the judge. personally I would think since the Troy is connected back to ground it should be more efficient,but both brands should yield similar improvements. Larger cables will increase the efficiency of both types IMO.

 

[Tango]

Grounding the equipments anyway you can. Tripoint is one very effective way but so as the way RogerD, Mr. Karmeli, Airbearing manage his grounding. I wish I am capable of doing like them.

Your digital can sound much better with proper grounding and it might not be so expensive.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[KeithR]

See this WBF thread. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11905-Tripoint-troy-signature-grounding-device&p=329757&viewfull=1#post329757

Unfortunately it does not add anything, as no one know what is exactly the physics behind these devices - or the similar Entreq's btw.

Thanks - I've purposely avoided these threads. And won't be revisiting

Back to the amazing engineered, MSB Select II!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, going for the very top Troy products is a serious financial outlay.
I'm very much on my own path to Nirvana/madness with my planned expenditure on passive isolation platforms under all my gear, at least 8 Stacores.
All I would say to you is don't shelve maxxing isolation under yr components (you have 3 Msb boxes now) to go uber grounding solely.
For the guy who can afford both...

I have a similar investment in resonance treatment as I do grounding treatments. they do different but related things. they overlap benefits but each has it's own area of unique contribution.

ultimate mature system synergy needs both things dealt with.

 

[Tango]

Larger cables will increase the efficiency of both types IMO.

My grounding cable is almost as big as my wrist .

 

[microstrip]

(...) not sure we can say whether it's better or worse to mix them. I've messed around to some degree adding and removing and so far the more boxes the better. Entreq is signal path grounding primarily and not connected to the power grid ground. Tripoint is chassis grounding and connected to the power grid ground. many hundreds of posts have been written about how these products compare......and compatibility.

since the entry cost is so much less with the Entreq one tends to go there first and then add the Tripoint when one can. so you end up with both.

Thanks. But, once we look at the basics, we see completely different type of devices - Entreq's, Tripoint Troy, Tripoint Empress or even RogerD grounding techniques. Electrically there is nothing in common between them! In such case, once you mix them you risk loosing efficiency of use and enter a never ending process.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks. But, once we look at the basics, we see completely different type of devices - Entreq's, Tripoint Troy, Tripoint Empress or even RogerD grounding techniques. Electrically there is nothing in common between them! In such case, once you mix them you risk loosing efficiency of use and enter a never ending process.

I'm not burdened with the weight of knowledge. I can only listen. sometimes we have answers, but are not asking the right questions.

 

[spiritofmusic]

No argument from me there
Maybe one day I'll investigate Troy here
But w balanced power/dedicated lines/isolated feed from house/lack of local grid pollution/pre existing low mains impedance/Entreq benefits, it makes more sense for me to spend big for the time being on vibration management a la Stacore.
Once this is covered and if Troy demo pushes more buttons, I'll see.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sawasdee Mike,

I like Tripoint products. They work very well in my system. To be honest to you, the Empress which is the most expensive disappointed me in term of price/performance comparing to the Troy and Dalby ground wire (I dont have the Thor). A few guys raved so much about the Empress in AE forum, may be it is just not "destined" to work super well with my spearkers. Not that the Empress doesnt improve sound. It really does in the same way the Troy and the Thor do. If I disconnect the Empress from my speakers negative terminals, I will feel that the sound is a bit coarse right away. But it is so very expensive that I expect more from it. For the money, I say invest in the Troy and the Thor and hook them to all your fronts and amps. Grounding the amps in my case works even better than the Pre and Phono. My amps are SET and I had a special gorund post made for me. Too bad, Rudolph cannot ground his Kondo .

Kind regards,
Tang

thank you Tang, for the valuable feedback on the Empress.

I did speak to Herve Delatraz (Mr. darTZeel) about where and how to ground the chassis of my dart 458 (soon to be 468) mono's. so that is what I'm doing next. the question is whether it's Entreq or Tripoint doing it. comes down to $$$'s.

 

[RogerD]

Thanks. But, once we look at the basics, we see completely different type of devices - Entreq's, Tripoint Troy, Tripoint Empress or even RogerD grounding techniques. Electrically there is nothing in common between them! In such case, once you mix them you risk loosing efficiency of use and enter a never ending process.

Interesting assumption. Electrically they only effect the audio signal. One is a signal,the others are chassis and signal provided the internal ground scheme is done correctly,where the signal ground intersects the chassis. Can you have to much of this type of grounding? I suppose if as you suggest a loop is created. I prefer my method as I have yet to experience any SQ deterioration.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I did speak to Herve Delatraz (Mr. darTZeel) about where and how to ground the chassis of my dart 458 (soon to be 468) mono's. so that is what I'm doing next. the question is whether it's Entreq or Tripoint doing it. comes down to $$$'s.

Excuse my curiosity but did Herve have any opinion on the Entreq or the Tripoint? I have not found a single electronics manufacturer that agrees on connecting electrically floating wooden cased suspicious objects to the chassis of their amplifiers.

But I intent to try them soon, so I am really curious about them!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Excuse my curiositymbut did Herve have any opinion on the Entreq or the Tripoint? I have not found a single electronics manufacturer that agrees on connecting electrically floating wooden cased suspicious objects to the chassis of their amplifiers.

this has been a few months since I spoke to Herve' about this, so I want to be careful with my memory about not putting words in his mouth or speaking for him.

but Herve' is an out of box thinker as his products clearly show. he takes a road less traveled.....and is open minded and has his ego in check. as I recall he said something like 'Mike, I would not be surprised if you, in your particular system, found benefits in this way'. which is also what Kevin Malmgren (the Evolution Acoustics designer/builder/partner) said when I asked him how best to ground the plate amps in the bass towers of the MM7's. that worked out very well.

neither assumed it would be helpful, but neither tried to discourage me, both offered helpful advice, and were interested in what happened. I've known both these guys for a long time and maybe that is part of the picture and receptive attitude I got.

 

[Jazzhead]

I would leave the definition of this technical term to others, like yourself, who have the understanding. the Entreq Poseidon is three separate electrically separated boxes in one chassis. I've been using this with my amps for 18 months now, so it seems to be separate in use. obviously the Tripoint Empress is 2 separate boxes, so it's separate.



I don't exactly know the cost of the 2 box Empress, but I'm guessing it's likely 10x the cost of the Poseidon ($50k <-> $5k) plus the ground cables are similarly more costly.

not sure we can say whether it's better or worse to mix them. I've messed around to some degree adding and removing and so far the more boxes the better. Entreq is signal path grounding primarily and not connected to the power grid ground. Tripoint is chassis grounding and connected to the power grid ground. many hundreds of posts have been written about how these products compare......and compatibility.

since the entry cost is so much less with the Entreq one tends to go there first and then add the Tripoint when one can. so you end up with both.

I don't think we can classify either one as being chassis grounding or signal grounding . They can both be connected either to the chassis or to a signal related post . So to say the Tripoint is only chassis grounding and Entreq signal grounding , is not entirely correct. The larger Olympus does have a centre peg that connects to the power grid , with cable of choice . They do however have different energy release characteristics from a listening perspective . Back to the Select ....

 

[KeithR]

Excuse my curiosity but did Herve have any opinion on the Entreq or the Tripoint? I have not found a single electronics manufacturer that agrees on connecting electrically floating wooden cased suspicious objects to the chassis of their amplifiers.

But I intent to try them soon, so I am really curious about them!

Yeah, that was getting to my point. Hearing that $160k amps and $120k dacs require "grounding" boxes seems questionable knowing the build quality of the pieces well. And adding boxes and boxes of complication seems to go against the two manufacturers ideas to begin with, also.