Munich show 2023 Hifideluxe and MOC .

[Rexp]

On the other hand, with the right system (one that is to our liking) and room acoustics we can find pleasure in many recordings. Good recordings are a bonus.

I used to own an audio store in the 90's, we specialised in valve gear and high efficiency speakers that made poor digital recordings sound enjoyable. Unfortunately such systems didn't play good recordings to their full potential.

 

[hopkins]

I used to own an audio store in the 90's, we specialised in valve gear and high efficiency speakers that made poor digital recordings sound enjoyable. Unfortunately such systems didn't play good recordings to their full potential.

I'm sorry for your customers

But more seriously, I don't know what to make of this. At some point, generalizations stop being helpful and insightful?

Have you heard since systems with which you find most recordings satisfying ?

 

[caesar]

My final show preference...top 10 rooms:

1) Aries Cerat. Most realism in a system of still "fit in your home" size.
2) Acapella but you needed to sit in the first couple of rows...further back was far less appealing
3) Cessaro with Opus 1 + subwoofer: However, the big system was not very good...no idea what the issue is.
4) TotalDAC. Maybe some rooms sounded better in some ways but the sound was clean, fresh, well balanced and dynamic. Good value by show standards
5) WE room with Silbatone. Not quite as good as some past years and somewhat uneven but unrivaled dynamics and emotion
6) Sigma Acoustics with CanEver eletronics and a big TT. Really lovely and dynamic sound...best system with no horn driver of any kind
7) Grandinote. This was the best under 50K system at the show IMO. 98dB speakers with compression/horn tweeter and Magnetosoild amps
8) Living Voice. Very good sound but perhaps not great value for the speakers (52K). I think the system could have benefited from having more than 8 watts of 300B power on tap as you could hear the strain when it got loud.
9) Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.
10) Kawero! + Ypsilon. Most dynamic non-horn system. Last year had too much zing in the tweeter but this year it was yummy.

Honorable mention:

Von Schweikert/VAC. Very dynamic for a non-horn system and extremely resolving. However, was not very forgiving of lesser recordings
ESD Acoustics: Bombastic in the same way a Buggatti Veyron is for cars. Loved the ambition and scale but for anything other than big classical it sounded overblown.
Tidal: Didn't hear the Buggatti model but their other bigger model was quite warm and natural sounding even with SS amps
Voxativ: Often I don't like the highs of whizzer coned drivers but they had a new black coned driver that sounded very good with midbass coupler and dipole sub...
Fleetwood Sound: Lively and fun but a bit raw sounding at times
Diesis Audio: in a much bigger room this year and it didn't really work as well as the past few shows. Still lovely sound but lacked some impact this time
Soundspacesystems: Funky, high sensitivity speakers that were a lot of fun...but way overpriced IMO.
Odeon + New Audio Frontiers: Was great when they picked good music...which wasn't that often.
Jadis + Davis Acoustics. Prototype speaker was good fun and lively...Jadis has lovely voicing.
Thrax: Great sounding monitors and all 300B preamp/amp chain.
WLM: Small two-way speakers were a real surprise for reasonable money
Marco Serri design: Crazy stuff with an appealing an lively sound...perhaps not completely worked out designs but a lot of fun.


Almost but not quite:
Boenicke Audio: Had it's moments but overall seemed a bit uneven
Marten: All rooms. Speakers had strong bass in both rooms and overly soft upper ranges.
Wilson/Nagra: Had considerable strengths but just doesn't sound realistic
Wilson/VTL: same as above
WE with new (as of last year) speaker
Avantgarde.Duo GT..something about them with SS amps just leaves me cold.
hORNs: Didn't really gel for me
Goebel + CH + WADAX/Kronos: With Kronos it would almost have made the honorable mention list but I think CH holds it back. With WADAX, no thanks. The whole system was significantly better last year with True Life Audio amplification, IMO
MBL: Always a "not quite" for me because of the metallic nature of the overall sound I always hear...strengths are clear but i guess not everyone hears the weaknesses.
Bayz: Could hear the "pipe" overlaying the sound...otherwise nice boxless sound.
Stenheim + Dartzeel... a bit "meh" but basically ok
Rockport + Absolare: not sure what the fuss is about...ok hifi sound.
Brodmann + Viola and crazy Zensati cables; Interesting and almost made honorable mention

Fails:
Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Wolf Von Langa + Air Tight: Very thin sounding
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding
Alsyvox + Pilium: (last year lacked dynamics with Jadis and this year lacked soul and coherence with Pilium). Liked their sound a lot in 2018 and 2019 but not since they came with the big speakers at the big show. This is perhaps not quite a fail but after great demos in the past the last two years have been a big letdown.


Lot's of other rooms that left no impression on me at all.

Just catching up on this show... and reading the thread backwards...Great summary! Thanks for sharing.

 

[caesar]

My understanding is that there were 9 wilson rooms! And they all sucked bad, despite the arrogant , "Snooty" Peter McGrath there, helping with setups. Anyone who still doesn't comprehend band wagon effects should have their head examined.

I wonder how many wilson rooms will be there next year. God help this hobby!

 

[Rexp]

I'm sorry for your customers

But more seriously, I don't know what to make of this. At some point, generalizations stop being helpful and insightful?

Have you heard since systems with which you find most recordings satisfying ?

I have yet to hear a digitally sourced system that I would find satisfying. However I haven't demoed anything recently and believe such a system may now exist. Having said that, given the poor state of digital recordings, I would not expect it to sound acceptable on most recordings.

 

[abeidrov]

My understanding is that there were 9 wilson rooms! And they all sucked bad, despite the arrogant , "Snooty" Peter McGrath there, helping with setups. Anyone who still doesn't comprehend band wagon effects should have their head examined.

I wonder how many wilson rooms will be there next year. God help this hobby!

This constant WA bashing is getting really old. It is almost bad manners to own and enjoy WA speakers here. Very sad

 

[Ron Resnick]

My understanding is that there were 9 wilson rooms! And they all sucked bad, despite the arrogant , "Snooty" Peter McGrath there, helping with setups. Anyone who still doesn't comprehend band wagon effects should have their head examined.

I wonder how many wilson rooms will be there next year. God help this hobby!

Your "understanding"? About nine (9) different rooms? But you don't actually know anything because you weren't there?

 

[morricab]

My understanding is that there were 9 wilson rooms! And they all sucked bad, despite the arrogant , "Snooty" Peter McGrath there, helping with setups. Anyone who still doesn't comprehend band wagon effects should have their head examined.

I wonder how many wilson rooms will be there next year. God help this hobby!

Wilson with Nagra and Wilson with VTL were both not bad.

 

[bonzo75]

. It is almost bad manners to own and enjoy WA speakers here. Very sad

I agree I feel sad for those who own WA speakers here

 

[abeidrov]

I agree I feel sad for those who own WA speakers here

At least we own some speakers…

 

[PeterA]

I agree I feel sad for those who own WA speakers here

I remember the bashing of my Magico speakers when I was writing about my old system. Your comments did not bother me.

 

[morricab]

I remember the bashing of my Magico speakers when I was writing about my old system. Your comments did not bother me.

Sure they did, you changed your speakers...

 

[bonzo75]

At least we own some speakers…

i would rather listen to vinyl rips through YouTube on my boombox than listen to a track through boom boom boxes costing so much and making noise not music

 

[abeidrov]

i would rather listen to vinyl rips through YouTube on my boombox than listen to a track through boom boom boxes costing so much

Are you sure you have a boombox or is it one-day-to-build?

 

[bonzo75]

Are you sure you have a boombox or is it one-day-to-build?

naim muso

 

[abeidrov]

naim muso

Kedar, that was a joke, you don’t have to answer Although a picture would be nice

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i ignore posts with 'Wilson' in them. it's like watching the news. i just don't do it.

owned them myself, moved on, but mostly these days generally don't care for the associated gear and set up at shows. yet Wilson's are a quality speaker, have greatly improved in the last 10 years, but we go too far here about them. i can easily enjoy listening to systems with Wilson speakers.....and could own them.

in some ways WA has asked for it by being the brick and mortar standard, but in other ways it's just too easy to dump on them. i suppose some need a whipping boy. sigh. can't we just give it a rest for a year or so?

 

[microstrip]

My understanding is that there were 9 wilson rooms! And they all sucked bad, despite the arrogant , "Snooty" Peter McGrath there, helping with setups. Anyone who still doesn't comprehend band wagon effects should have their head examined.

I wonder how many wilson rooms will be there next year. God help this hobby!

Peter McGrath is an extremely kind and friendly person. Since long I had the pleasure to assist to a few of his participations in demos and even had dinners sitting on his side with a small group of people. We had great moments, talking about culture, social life, travels, physics(!) and surely high-end stereo.

I feel sorry that an audio forum that wants to rank with the best in the internet allows gratuitous insult of individual people and hate speech in its activities. Probably one day I will read such posts, consider that I do not want to participate in a forum housing such disgusting behavior and follow the others who gave up or simply iddle in this forum for similar reasons.

Disclaimer - some nice people I consider good friends are involved professionally in high-end stereo.

 

[caesar]

Peter McGrath is an extremely kind and friendly person. Since long I had the pleasure to assist to a few of his participations in demos and even had dinners sitting on his side with a small group of people. We had great moments, talking about culture, social life, travels, physics(!) and surely high-end stereo.

I feel sorry that an audio forum that wants to rank with the best in the internet allows gratuitous insult of individual people and hate speech in its activities. Probably one day I will read such posts, consider that I do not want to participate in a forum housing such disgusting behavior and follow the others who gave up or simply iddle in this forum for similar reasons.

Disclaimer - some nice people I consider good friends are involved professionally in high-end stereo.

sonce you’re a fan of Wilson, I understand your reply. All of the Wilson reviewers in magazines love him also because he hands out his recordings to curry favor to those particular individuals . Recordings that no one else can have , other than his buddies.

but my experience with him is just the opposite

 

[caesar]

This constant WA bashing is getting really old. It is almost bad manners to own and enjoy WA speakers here. Very sad

Dear Sir,
Please don't mis-understand my post. I have no problem with Wilson Audio - great family, great company, and a very popular product. And it's silly to argue about taste - only idiots argue about personal taste.

But I am talking about industry structure. The Analytical Sound spent a decade telling us how Magico is the greatest speaker in the world, and Magico had like 2 rooms at the show I am aware of. And in the last decade, there have been a number of newer box speaker companies that have popped up: Steinheim, Gobel, and Borreson - just off the top of my head. No one has been able to differentiate them up to this point, unfortunately. How much of a chance do they have?

Regardless, I hope you enjoy Wilsons for many years. I hope you get a wilson wamm in every room of your house.