Music Appreciation USA vs. Europe
- Thread starter LenWhite
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Well having a nationalistic approach for countries is a good thing i think , including for music , how would one get otherwise musical diversity??( or any diversity really)
I want to add that the federal european state is not supported by all europeans(incl me ) and is in fact killing democracy , so in that aspect i prefer the anglo american way although its not perfect as well .
In my opinion the EU is no more than the 3 third german powergrab in a century
I want to add that the federal european state is not supported by all europeans(incl me ) and is in fact killing democracy , so in that aspect i prefer the anglo american way although its not perfect as well .
In my opinion the EU is no more than the 3 third german powergrab in a century
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I'm not saying one should abandon his own culture or his own nation only that knowing about others is better than not knowing.
I was merely commenting on alans post , jack and yes i also love travelling to diverse countries with diverse cultures
Having lived in both Europe and North America I can say that Europeans in general have a greater appreciation of and for the arts. Maybe its because they have a closer connection to history as there are reminders everywhere you go, such as buildings, monuments, museums, etc.
The US culture is just different. People don't sit back and relax anymore. Everyone is multi-tasking and constantly on the run. It starts at a young age, as kids get shuttled from one activity to another...
What is really interesting about this piece is that it comes from a TAS author. And it was just recently that TAS's Valin tried so hard to change the meaning of this hobby from sitting back, relaxing, and finding a state of psychological bliss of listening to music to one of listening to every last detail of what's on the record by recommending brands that excel at presenting those fetishistic details as "BEST".
Cesear- 'globalization' and the smart phone, etc. has driven even the Europeans to work harder, faster and without respite. It's unfortunate in some respects for all of us.
Whart,
I have no doubt you are right, in a relative sense. It’s been a almost 20 eyars since I worked in Europe, but I have very fond memories of going to lunch on Friday with our team, having a few pints, and a few more, and some more, and then leaving that pub for another around 5 or 6, and staying out late into the night…
But in the macro sense, Europe is in deep, deep doo-doo, IMHO. Yes, Europeans are very educated and cultured. And they have smaller living quarters which result in different leisure activities, such as families listening to music together on their high end systems. But they have very serious economic problems that can severely curb their high audio pleasures: aging population, low birthrates, and extremely generous welfare benefits (mainly pensions, early retirement, etc.). People are living longer, but retiring younger. The government and unions are larger and more powerful, and their members are voters, there is less flexibility in labor markets. Regulations are highly invasive. Marginal tax rates higher. And there is also the Euro problem. … All of this results in slower economic growth.
Why is it important for our hobby? Let’s face it. No one needs a high end system. Many like high end systems. Many LUST after high end systems, because of the experience they provide. But a cheap set of headphones sold on a plane by the flight attendants (before ipad/ iphone revolution) just a few years can get us off on the music. Without a faster growing economy and resulting higher wages, fewer Europeans will be able to partake in this expensive hobby.
So yes, Europeans may now enjoy the hobby in more numbers than Americans, but their future is bleaker. I’m much more bullish on Asia and US than on Europe. Stepping back, puts the famous quote “Nero fiddled while Rome burned” in a new perspective.
(Google “Why do Americans Work so Much More than Europeans”, a paper by an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis for some specifics, if you are an economics junky)
Hi caesar!
I always enjoy reading your threadstarts and posts, but I can't agree with you when you say Europe's future is bleaker than that of the U.S. To be brutally honest, I find that the divide between rich (have) and poor (have not) is growing at an alarming rate in the U.S., and there is nothing to stop it. "Business" runs government in the U.S. and the only concern they have is profit. Do you really think they care about the average citizen and their welfare? There are major problems in Europe to be sure, but many of them are concentrated in a few countries only....not the entire continent.
US has the same problems as Europe, but they are much, much milder. Economically speaking, US is in much better shape. Yes, "no one" may care about the average citizen, and yes, "there is a gap between rich and poor". That's just life. But these are minor factors when in come to what makes economies grow. The main factors that determine economic growth are as follows, and US has a huge advantage over europe in these: taxes are lower, population is pretty much at replacement rate, unions are less pernicious, retirement age is higher, welfare benefits are more tame, US has a more entrepreneurial culture that drives innovation and new business formation, etc. These are indisputable economic facts, and I spent many years studying them. You can dive into the academic paper I mentioned above, if you are interested in more details.
But we can agree to disagree...
I think I'll leave it that. Differences are good, especially if we try to learn from them. There is no perfect example to quote as that would mean a utopian world.....unattainable.
Neither will social issues....
You are right, of course. These timeless philosophical issues have been documented and studied since the philosophy renaissance of the ancient Greece. But in hte last 2,500 we have scientifically and objectively learned what makes economies grow. And it's a real shame that so few people in today's society understand economics.
Who cares this thread is like who builds the best cars. Music, it doesn't mater if its economic, social, history driven, the appreciation for the arts. You can be rich or poor and still appreciate music while living in a freaking palace or in some cardboard box on the street in LA or in some little town in Europe.
I find it interesting that you don't say "We have learned how to maximise prosperity" or "We have learned to ensure economic stability". Or even "We have learned how to maximise happiness". You adopt the economist's mantra that economics is all about growth, whereas I think most people in the street would naively go for something like my three alternatives. The problem is, that the system as it is cannot function without growth. Growth is not a nice-to-have; it is essential, not for maximising happiness or prosperity, merely to stave off collapse. An assumption of perpetual growth is baked into the system from top to bottom and if, for any reason, that growth stops, the system collapses.
There's a great deal of hype surrounding shale oil and all that, but the oil price remains high even in a recession; just this on its own may be enough to curb growth so much that the system can no longer function. And there could be other factors in play that have upset the system: the rise of globalisation, suddenly a billion new entrants into the capitalist markets in China without a corresponding increase in availability of resources, people spending a lot of their time in the cyber world instead of real life, ever-increasing automation and the possibility that people already have enough 'stuff' and can't be persuaded to buy any more, lack of confidence in the future as the illusion of endless prosperity has been shattered. Not to mention the obvious factors of unprecedented public and private debt, markets flooded with QE money and so on. Does anyone really understand economics sufficiently to make a worthwhile prediction about US vs. European prosperity? To me, it just doesn't look for any of us! Even if governments could engineer a few more years of prosperity and growth (like they did circa 2000), it wouldn't feel permanent; more like a last roll of the dice before an even bigger catastrophe.
Whilst there's a lot of truth in your economic points, you omitted some vital aspects because you're blind to them. This sentence demonstrates probably the most important of those aspects - complacency. The average American is way more delusioinal about the prospects of their once great nation than the rank and file European. In Europe the bulk of the problems have arisen from the adoption of the single currency which is an experiment just over a decade old. USA's problems run much deeper as they've been extant longer, even though its true to say (as you've pointed out) that USA has had great 'vibrancy' in terms of the business climate.
Simple answer: happiness cannot buy you money.
On a serious note, I think more people are aware that the daily grind, even if it brings financial success, provides no assurance of happiness or fulfillment. And while the current generation of college grads is struggling to find jobs in a tough economic climate, maybe they will have a little more perspective about what's important in life. I think Caesar's earlier point about European culture being a little less frenetic and money-driven than the States is valid, although that's not necessarily true in places like London.
I agree with you. In the US, anyone can walk into a public library, get on the library computer with a cheap,plastic, borrowed set of headphones get access to a seemingly unlimited library of music. But the high end audio hobby is different. It's a different experience. Let me reiterate what I said above:
"Why is it important for our hobby? Let’s face it. No one needs a high end system. Many like high end systems. Many LUST after high end systems, because of the experience they provide. But a cheap set of headphones sold on a plane by the flight attendants (before ipad/ iphone revolution) just a few years can get us off on the music. Without a faster growing economy and resulting higher wages, fewer Europeans will be able to partake in this expensive hobby."
To make music sound more real takes engineering skills, room acoustics knowledge, and investment. Those aren't cheap. People will always enjoy music. But without growth, people will not have the income growth to partake in the hobby.
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