My dedicated audio room build - QuadDiffusor's Big Dig

[Kingrex]

The bocchino can take a huge guage wire and is a much firmer connection for more rigid wire.
In my experiments they seemed to raise the sq quite a bit compared to other plugs on the same wire.. worth trialing

Yes its worth trying. But it's just a piece of Delrin or similar material machined large and heavy with prongs shoved in it. I remember OCD Mike showing similar plugs he was making by taking plates of solid silver, creating the prongs, then pouring an epoxy-ish resin around it. He said it was great.

What is the comment about huge gauge wire?????? In a personal conversation with Dan Dagostino, he told me, 10 AWG was much larger than necessary to power his largest amps. VAC told me their largest amps really only needed a 14 awg wire in 240 volt. Same for Boulder. The manufacturer are not on the oversized wire train. The idea you gain something going larger that 10 awg is speculation. it does not get better. It changes a little. But its not like going from 12 awg to 10 awg where you hear a jump in dynamics. And a stranded wire does not seem to voice as well as a solid. You have a lot of capacitive coupling noise and eddy current where all the bare copper strands are touching each other in the conductor.

If someone were to want to come directly out of a panel from the circuit breaker to a duplex or to a IEC, I would use either VH Audio Cryo 10 AWG Romex or Oyaide wire. Add to what I said above that you can bend the wire more readily to make a non stressed connection to the equipment you are plugging into.

 

[Cellcbern]

Yes its worth trying. But it's just a piece of Delrin or similar material machined large and heavy with prongs shoved in it. I remember OCD Mike showing similar plugs he was making by taking plates of solid silver, creating the prongs, then pouring an epoxy-ish resin around it. He said it was great.

What is the comment about huge gauge wire?????? In a personal conversation with Dan Dagostino, he told me, 10 AWG was much larger than necessary to power his largest amps. VAC told me their largest amps really only needed a 14 awg wire in 240 volt. Same for Boulder. The manufacturer are not on the oversized wire train. The idea you gain something going larger that 10 awg is speculation. it does not get better. It changes a little. But its not like going from 12 awg to 10 awg where you hear a jump in dynamics. And a stranded wire does not seem to voice as well as a solid. You have a lot of capacitive coupling noise and eddy current where all the bare copper strands are touching each other in the conductor.

If someone were to want to come directly out of a panel from the circuit breaker to a duplex or to a IEC, I would use either VH Audio Cryo 10 AWG Romex or Oyaide wire. Add to what I said above that you can bend the wire more readily to make a non stressed connection to the equipment you are plugging into.

Yet both JPS Labs and Audience, both top tier cable makers who presumably had a choice, picked stranded wire for their cable made specifically for in-wall dedicated lines. I wonder why? I used the JPS a decade ago when i had my dedicated line run and remain happy with it. I have heard both sound great in multiple systems. If I was doing it over today I would use the Audience Hidden Treasure.

FYI:

JPS Labs Power AC In-Wall Cable by Rick becker

JPS Labs Power AC In-Wall Cable - Enjoy the Music.com Review Magazine

www.enjoythemusic.com

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker of Enjoy the Music.com

www.enjoythemusic.com

FYI:

 

[Kingrex]

I looked at both. Talked to both years back about being a dealer. Decided Oyaide was better. But Oyaide is not legal.

 

[Cellcbern]

I looked at both. Talked to both years back about being a dealer. Decided Oyaide was better. But Oyaide is not legal.

Looked at? Did you listen to both and the Oyaide in order to determine that the Oyaide was better?

 

[pjwd]

Yes its worth trying. But it's just a piece of Delrin or similar material machined large and heavy with prongs shoved in it. I remember OCD Mike showing similar plugs he was making by taking plates of solid silver, creating the prongs, then pouring an epoxy-ish resin around it. He said it was great.

What is the comment about huge gauge wire?????? In a personal conversation with Dan Dagostino, he told me, 10 AWG was much larger than necessary to power his largest amps. VAC told me their largest amps really only needed a 14 awg wire in 240 volt. Same for Boulder. The manufacturer are not on the oversized wire train. The idea you gain something going larger that 10 awg is speculation. it does not get better. It changes a little. But its not like going from 12 awg to 10 awg where you hear a jump in dynamics. And a stranded wire does not seem to voice as well as a solid. You have a lot of capacitive coupling noise and eddy current where all the bare copper strands are touching each other in the conductor.

If someone were to want to come directly out of a panel from the circuit breaker to a duplex or to a IEC, I would use either VH Audio Cryo 10 AWG Romex or Oyaide wire. Add to what I said above that you can bend the wire more readily to make a non stressed connection to the equipment you are plugging into.

All I can say is I have done the tests of multiple fancy wires and plugs and reached my conclusions.... I only mentioned them because QD was looking at direct wiring to plug.

BTW all plugs are made with stuff with metal prongs shoved in them

 

[Kingrex]

All I can say is I have done the tests of multiple fancy wires and plugs and reached my conclusions.... I only mentioned them because QD was looking at direct wiring to plug.

BTW all plugs are made with stuff with metal prongs shoved in them

The metals, plating and case vary in quality and material. They very much impact what a power cable sounds like. If you want to say they are all basically the same, are you saying all power cables sound the same. I am of the belief a power cable is an assembly and not only the cable itself matters. The end pieces as well as the solder if used also matters.

 

[Kingrex]

Looked at? Did you listen to both and the Oyaide in order to determine that the Oyaide was better?

I have not listened to JPS Labs, but I have heard tinned stranded wire. I was told its tined for durability in damp environments. I am not looking for that. Maybe if you lived in a house on the ocean. I have listened to stranded, solid, Oyaide, Furutech cords, Mil spec silver coated stranded, Mil spec solid 16 spun with multiple strand to #13, tined copper cords, bare copper cords, MC cable, wire in steel, wire in PVC as well as gauges #12, #10, #8,

Solid always performs best. Fine strand cords like Furutech, Cullen, or SO are always worst. #8 is interesting as its pretty clean like solid. #8 is also very fast but a little hard. I would use it on Subwoofers only.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

The lattice of external scaffolding which had been shrouding the facade was removed, allowing my neighbor to take this photo. Coming along slowly, but surely! The basement audio room extends horizontally across the entire width of the property, below the car porch area where the three yellow-hatted workers are standing, and the swimming pool, which is being tiled and hence covered for protection from the rain. That faint grey line behind the porta-potty defines the start of my property boundary, outside of which is the public streetside drainage.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

And, this is another view from street level:

 

[mxk116]

And, this is another view from street level:
View attachment 148485

I wish you many happy years in your beautiful new home.

 

[pjwd]

The metals, plating and case vary in quality and material. They very much impact what a power cable sounds like. If you want to say they are all basically the same, are you saying all power cables sound the same. I am of the belief a power cable is an assembly and not only the cable itself matters. The end pieces as well as the solder if used also matters.

I agree and did not say otherwise

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Yes its worth trying. But it's just a piece of Delrin or similar material machined large and heavy with prongs shoved in it. I remember OCD Mike showing similar plugs he was making by taking plates of solid silver, creating the prongs, then pouring an epoxy-ish resin around it. He said it was great.

What is the comment about huge gauge wire?????? In a personal conversation with Dan Dagostino, he told me, 10 AWG was much larger than necessary to power his largest amps. VAC told me their largest amps really only needed a 14 awg wire in 240 volt. Same for Boulder. The manufacturer are not on the oversized wire train. The idea you gain something going larger that 10 awg is speculation. it does not get better. It changes a little. But its not like going from 12 awg to 10 awg where you hear a jump in dynamics. And a stranded wire does not seem to voice as well as a solid. You have a lot of capacitive coupling noise and eddy current where all the bare copper strands are touching each other in the conductor.

If someone were to want to come directly out of a panel from the circuit breaker to a duplex or to a IEC, I would use either VH Audio Cryo 10 AWG Romex or Oyaide wire. Add to what I said above that you can bend the wire more readily to make a non stressed connection to the equipment you are plugging into.

Kingrex,

Understand that you're a very strong advocate of solid-core in wall AC cabling. However, there are many variations of "multi-stranded" in wall AC cabling!

Have you personally auditioned 7AWG (6mm2) copper conductor in-wall AC cabling with the following characteristics?

1) multi-stranded, but with just seven (not hundreds of thin, multi-filament) strands of copper
2) cheap and thick PVC insulation replaced with clear, thin XLPE
3) Live and Neutral conductors twisted together at a high rotational rate, cancelling out induction and magnetic interactions, repelling EMI/RFI
4) no shielding, either braided or foil, which I believe is unnecessary given the tight twist of the Live and Neutral conductors
5) separate Ground cabling, low resistance and very thick 5AWG (16mm2), loosely twisted at a much lower frequency as the Live/Neutral pair
6) all Ground cabling being the same length, regardless of the AC duplex outlet's location relative to the dedicated sub-MCB
7) "Star" grounding of the Ground cables, back at the dedicated sub-MCB box
8) in wall AC cabling being "directly" wired to the component via a single female IEC termination, skipping multiple metal to metal interfaces

According to your experience, which of the features above might be the weakest link, and conversely, the strongest mitigants which cancels the negatives of 7-stranded 7AWG copper conductors for delivering AC power?

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Sharing a link to a downloadable PDF on the subject of AC cabling, grounding, etc.
Profound wisdom shared by the author, Bill Whitlock!

https://indianaaes.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

 

[Cellcbern]

I have not listened to JPS Labs, but I have heard tinned stranded wire. I was told its tined for durability in damp environments. I am not looking for that. Maybe if you lived in a house on the ocean. I have listened to stranded, solid, Oyaide, Furutech cords, Mil spec silver coated stranded, Mil spec solid 16 spun with multiple strand to #13, tined copper cords, bare copper cords, MC cable, wire in steel, wire in PVC as well as gauges #12, #10, #8,

Solid always performs best. Fine strand cords like Furutech, Cullen, or SO are always worst. #8 is interesting as its pretty clean like solid. #8 is also very fast but a little hard. I would use it on Subwoofers only.

1) I have never seen any reference to the JPS Labs being tinned, anywhere, and I would challenge you to produce one. 2) You cannot credibly make claims about where a cable ranks compared to others without having listened to it. 3) My own experience contradicts your assertions - I replaced a solid core copper dedicated line with the JPS Labs and realized a significant improvement in sound quality.

 

[Kingrex]

Kingrex,

Understand that you're a very strong advocate of solid-core in wall AC cabling. However, there are many variations of "multi-stranded" in wall AC cabling!

Have you personally auditioned 7AWG (6mm2) copper conductor in-wall AC cabling with the following characteristics?

1) multi-stranded, but with just seven (not hundreds of thin, multi-filament) strands of copper
2) cheap and thick PVC insulation replaced with clear, thin XLPE
3) Live and Neutral conductors twisted together at a high rotational rate, cancelling out induction and magnetic interactions, repelling EMI/RFI
4) no shielding, either braided or foil, which I believe is unnecessary given the tight twist of the Live and Neutral conductors
5) separate Ground cabling, low resistance and very thick 5AWG (16mm2), loosely twisted at a much lower frequency as the Live/Neutral pair
6) all Ground cabling being the same length, regardless of the AC duplex outlet's location relative to the dedicated sub-MCB
7) "Star" grounding of the Ground cables, back at the dedicated sub-MCB box
8) in wall AC cabling being "directly" wired to the component via a single female IEC termination, skipping multiple metal to metal interfaces

According to your experience, which of the features above might be the weakest link, and conversely, the strongest mitigants which cancels the negatives of 7-stranded 7AWG copper conductors for delivering AC power?

Low strand wire is much better than high strand. Cord with many fine strands was the worst. Even the Furutech was not good at all. The Furutech direct from the panel to a IEC to a Gryphon Diablo was broken compared to a AQ Hurricane plugged into a Hubbell duplex fed by my twisted solid #10.
The Low strand such as the 8 awg MTW (Better than THHN/THWN) I have tried was close to solid core copper.
If I were you, I would run what you have, how you intend to run it, and it will be excellent. But I do like options. Even when I spec an isolation transformer, I have the client run non filtered circuits to the amps and front end. Just in case. You never know. 10 AWG NM-B is $270 for a 250 foot role. An electrician usually asks 1 hour per run. I would put a couple runs at a minimum to a duplex in the wall. Even better, I would put a large loop that is not stapled up and down the wall to allow it to be pulled out of the wall and direct wired in the future. I would do that with your #7 also if your being inspected and need to get a cover and final inspection. Pull it down and out the wall when the job is done. Definitely direct wire it. I venture a guess you will find the #7 is fast and alive. The solid is a little more fleshed out and rounded. It will be a subtle difference.

Your house looks amazing. I love a modern style. I would build the same but I am working with an existing structure. Not sure what to call it on the outside. I bought the hardwoods Friday. $31,000 in Craft engineered flooring from Canada. Pre finished oak. I had to get it before the Tarif. The cabinets are most likely to be a very dark blue laminate. The tops a Stratus White/Marble ish surface. The entry a dark slate. I would love high ceilings again, but that can not be. A few big doors and a large deck covered with a 2 ply clear plexy with a white curtain that can be pulled to adjust sun intensity. My back your is about 3.5 acres of south facing open pasture with some fruit trees and soon to be wine, blueberry and hazelnut shrubs. And a small pond.

 

[Kingrex]

Sharing a link to a downloadable PDF on the subject of AC cabling, grounding, etc.
Profound wisdom shared by the author, Bill Whitlock!

https://indianaaes.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

I have this as a reference that I have used for many years. It shaped some of my wire running process. Bill did great work.

 

[Kingrex]

1) I have never seen any reference to the JPS Labs being tinned, anywhere, and I would challenge you to produce one. 2) You cannot credibly make claims about where a cable ranks compared to others without having listened to it. 3) My own experience contradicts your assertions - I replaced a solid core copper dedicated line with the JPS Labs and realized a significant improvement in sound quality.

Are you sure its not tinned? I had a conversation with the manufacturer or shall I say, the person who has the wire made for him and sells it. I remember him telling me its tinned to resist corrosion. I have heard people say tinned is such a bad conductor, that the tinning acts as an insulator and reduces the interactions of the individual strands. Maybe that plays to it.

Did you run a #10 solid along with the JPS and compare the two? That is the only way to know. If you removed a very inferior #14 solid, or even a #12 and replaced it with something else, you have not compared #10 solid. They both have to be there for a direct comparison. They both need to be broken in. 50 hours for the #10. And not old oxidized existing wire. I pulled old #10 from a job and tried it with my stereo. Total disaster. Wire has a useful life. Especially with highly sensitive amplifying equipment. Another reason to Caig Deoxit all terminations. FWIW, yesterday I was messing with a cord I had terminated with a cheap Home Depot end. It was feeding holiday lights. When I opened the end, I was shocked at how clean and fresh the stranded wires under the screw were. I had Deoxed it before installing the end. That was a cord that sat out in the rain all winter with LED running on it. The stuff works wonders. I also inspected my boat motor and wiring as Salmon season started a few days ago. boat is strictly salt water used. The wiring is pristine. All of it. From motor to terminal blocks to battery connections. Not a single bit of corrosion.

 

[Cellcbern]

Low strand wire is much better than high strand. Cord with many fine strands was the worst. Even the Furutech was not good at all. The Furutech direct from the panel to a IEC to a Gryphon Diablo was broken compared to a AQ Hurricane plugged into a Hubbell duplex fed by my twisted solid #10.
The Low strand such as the 8 awg MTW (Better than THHN/THWN) I have tried was close to solid core copper.
If I were you, I would run what you have, how you intend to run it, and it will be excellent. But I do like options. Even when I spec an isolation transformer, I have the client run non filtered circuits to the amps and front end. Just in case. You never know. 10 AWG NM-B is $270 for a 250 foot role. An electrician usually asks 1 hour per run. I would put a couple runs at a minimum to a duplex in the wall. Even better, I would put a large loop that is not stapled up and down the wall to allow it to be pulled out of the wall and direct wired in the future. I would do that with your #7 also if your being inspected and need to get a cover and final inspection. Pull it down and out the wall when the job is done. Definitely direct wire it. I venture a guess you will find the #7 is fast and alive. The solid is a little more fleshed out and rounded. It will be a subtle difference.

Your house looks amazing. I love a modern style. I would build the same but I am working with an existing structure. Not sure what to call it on the outside. I bought the hardwoods Friday. $31,000 in Craft engineered flooring from Canada. Pre finished oak. I had to get it before the Tarif. The cabinets are most likely to be a very dark blue laminate. The tops a Stratus White/Marble ish surface. The entry a dark slate. I would love high ceilings again, but that can not be. A few big doors and a large deck covered with a 2 ply clear plexy with a white curtain that can be pulled to adjust sun intensity. My back your is about 3.5 acres of south facing open pasture with some fruit trees and soon to be wine, blueberry and hazelnut shrubs. And a small pond.

Disagree. In my 50+ years as an audiophile I have heard both solid core and stranded cables that sounded very good and some that sounded not so good. A lot goes into a cable's design. I have not found conductor type (solid core vs stranded) to be a predictor of sound quality. If you look for example at the list of "world's best", price no object cables offered by Audio Exotics you will find some that are stranded and some that are solid core.

 

[Cellcbern]

Are you sure its not tinned? I had a conversation with the manufacturer or shall I say, the person who has the wire made for him and sells it. I remember him telling me its tinned to resist corrosion. I have heard people say tinned is such a bad conductor, that the tinning acts as an insulator and reduces the interactions of the individual strands. Maybe that plays to it.

Did you run a #10 solid along with the JPS and compare the two? That is the only way to know. If you removed a very inferior #14 solid, or even a #12 and replaced it with something else, you have not compared #10 solid. They both have to be there for a direct comparison. They both need to be broken in. 50 hours for the #10. And not old oxidized existing wire. I pulled old #10 from a job and tried it with my stereo. Total disaster. Wire has a useful life. Especially with highly sensitive amplifying equipment. Another reason to Caig Deoxit all terminations. FWIW, yesterday I was messing with a cord I had terminated with a cheap Home Depot end. It was feeding holiday lights. When I opened the end, I was shocked at how clean and fresh the stranded wires under the screw were. I had Deoxed it before installing the end. That was a cord that sat out in the rain all winter with LED running on it. The stuff works wonders. I also inspected my boat motor and wiring as Salmon season started a few days ago. boat is strictly salt water used. The wiring is pristine. All of it. From motor to terminal blocks to battery connections. Not a single bit of corrosion.

The specs say "....copper alloy conductors.....". JPS Labs is known for their proprietary (deposited/powdered) aluminum shield which may look similar to tin. Since other cable makers tout their tin plating (e.g., Duelund) for its sonic properties, and the tin plated copper Western Electric wire was legendary I'm not sure why JPS would want to hide that their wire was tinned.

As I posted, I replaced a 10awg solid core copper dedicated line with the JPS Labs wire and realized an audible improvement in sound quality.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Streetside AC power utility box

The local utility company's metered compartment, located just outside my house.