Natural Sound

[bonzo75]

I don't think you can use Munich to make any compelling argument for horns. First, it is a EU trade show. Most homes in the EU counties have smaller spaces for the majority of folks who want to set up music reproduction systems. Horns are attractive to those buyers which speaks to the commercial success of horns in the EU that we do see here in the States. What is clear to anyone attending Munich is that a huge swath of the market that show caters to are distributors, dealers and retail customers in Asia including Japan, which also have smaller homes where horns may be a fine choice for room and budget. Second, have you heard the horns at Munich? Very few of them sounded anything remotely near "very good" and most were in shambles. It was quite clear that the worst sounding displays at Munich were extremely unimpressive high priced horn systems. In fact, aside from the Cessaro and Lorenzo exhibits, most deserved more ridicule than praise.

It's certainly your preogative to prefer horns. But you shouldn't cite Munich as an example to support your choice. After living in "horn world" for 3 days, I certainly came away less impressed than I would have hoped. I'll bet you would have as well.

Lots of inconsistencies there Marty. Horns are better in big spaces, I already said most of the horns at Munich don’t sound good, and I cited Munich only as a direct reply to a question “what % of rooms at a show are horns”. I seldom audition horns or any components at shows nor recommend anyone to, apart from WE

 

[wil]

A key for me was recognizing what I wanted and gaining sufficient exposure to realise its possibility. I was part of the way there once I knew Lamm which I had throughout my Wilson days. Exposure to horns took longer. Some of that was a result of being a reviewer as the first two publications I wrote for assigned what I was to write about. (Now I choose, thank you Positive Feedback.) I was exposed to a regular stream of different gear but it was gear chosen for the American audiophile market, which today is still not a robust horn market though that is changing somewhat. Six years ago I started this thread and ended up with a vintage solution thanks to David.

As much as being exposed to equipment possibilities it was the realisation and commitment to use live acoustic music as my reference. Before that it was the organic orange which eventually I grew out of. A sort of coming back to my roots -- not disimilar to what you write about Bill.

Can you elaborate on the distinction between the live acoustic music reference and the Organic Orange?

 

[PeterA]

I didn’t mean to imply they sounded similar. Mine admittedly is not in the same league as Peter’s or Tim’s, and they sound different from each other, however there is a family resemblance.

Mark, all that matters is that you like your system. I think the video sounds great. It’s a well thought out system, carefully assembled. It’s the final result at the listening seat that matters. And your opinion is the most important. Thank you for sharing it with the rest of us.

 

[tima]

My point has been that engineering should honor the subjective experience and rules of human hearing rather than trying to look good on paper.

+1

 

[morricab]

When the horns blow for armageddon yes, but not before !

Repent non-horn/SET sinner…the end is neigh!

 

[AudioHR]

A key is to know what you want. Then it is more of a recognition than an epiphany.
It is a journey for many audiophiles.

I agree it is a journey! Perhaps we know what we want or at least think we do, but as we build our system with that goal in mind we likely explore many different paths. Along the way we experience new knowledge, equipment & music and become better listeners, sometimes that goal is changed.

I for one am enjoying my journey! Do I really have any idea of what's best or how to get there? Well I do have a general plan and I know what I like but what's best is obviously open to debate. So actually the idea of something being the best isn't that important to me. The conversation about what's best is important though because that gives us insight into what we might like to explore next on our individual journeys!

 

[hopkins]

That is why I think everyone should try their hand at on location recording since they will know how the recording is supposed to sound.

A live event is a fleeting moment. What our brain stores as memories of a live event may not be sufficient to evaluate a system's performance.

If you have a good microphone, and a good pair of headphones, record your system, then compare that recording through headphones to the original. Then listen to your system again to check how different it sounds to your recording or the original on headphones, and so on. Be prepared to weep!

Or you can just listen to your system and ask yourself if you enjoy it.

 

[Al M.]

Repent non-horn/SET sinner…the end is neigh!

I know, you said that as just a joke, but you guys actually are so serious about it . You just keep on preaching, and we black sheep just keep on not converting (shrug).

 

[hopkins]

A live event is a fleeting moment. What our brain stores as memories of a live event may not be sufficient to evaluate a system's performance.

If you have a good microphone, and a good pair of headphones, record your system, then compare that recording through headphones to the original. Then listen to your system again to check how different it sounds to your recording or the original on headphones, and so on. Be prepared to weep!

Or you can just listen to your system and ask yourself if you enjoy it.

I'll add that tonal balance is probably the hardest thing to remember correctly, unless you have perfect pitch, which statistically very few of us are blessed with.

 

[AudioHR]

A live event is a fleeting moment. What our brain stores as memories of a live event may not be sufficient to evaluate a system's performance.

If you have a good microphone, and a good pair of headphones, record your system, then compare that recording through headphones to the original. Then listen to your system again to check how different it sounds to your recording or the original on headphones, and so on. Be prepared to weep!

Or you can just listen to your system and ask yourself if you enjoy it.

Are you really listening to your system or are you listening to the effects of the room on the sound your system is producing?

All of these IPhone recording on the WBF probably tell you more about someone's room than the actual speakers and components. IMHO.

Personally I have never cared for headphones but I get your point.

 

[tima]

Is that so both roaring thunder can sound powerful, distant, or immediate while a bubbling brook can sound calm, delicate, and nuanced?

What an entre to Beethoven's 6th Symphony, "The Pastorale". I can't resist - it's one of my very favorites. Here is true program music, illustrative music. B wrote a title at the beginning of each movement.

Mvmnt 1: Awakening of cheerful feelings on arrival in the countryside
Mvmnt 2: Scene by the brook
Mvmnt 3: Merry gathering of country folk
Mvmnt 4: Thuder, storm
Mvmnt 5: Shepherd's song. Cheerful and thankful feelings after the storm

Beethoven writes: "One leaves it to the listeners to discover the situations."

The 2nd's 'Scene by the brook' and the 4th's 'Thunder, Storm' are the most memetic of the piece.

You can hear the murmur of the brook in the repeated triplets of strings. Trills and melodic figures in higher registers speak of birds flying across the scene. B even names the birds -- solo flute is the nightengale, the oboe is the quail, and two clarinets play the cuckoo.

The storm that chases the merry gatherers to shelter develops realistically. Tremolo from lower register strings sound distant thunder. The music builds as the storm comes closer, you can almost feel the rain drops pelting you. A timpani roll and raspy trombones signal the thunder and heavy rain which passes. Sunshine breaks out and the peaceful pastoral feeling is restored.

Böhm on DG is excellent. DG 2530 142

My fav is Cluytens. HMV ASD 433

 

[tima]

A live event is a fleeting moment. What our brain stores as memories of a live event may not be sufficient to evaluate a system's performance.

You can always go more than once.

 

[morricab]

I know, you said that as just a joke, but you guys actually are so serious about it . You just keep on preaching, and we black sheep just keep on not converting (shrug).

You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make him drink...

 

[pjwd]

You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make him drink...

You know if the horse is thirsty and the water is not rubbish they always drink

 

[PeterA]

I know, you said that as just a joke, but you guys actually are so serious about it . You just keep on preaching, and we black sheep just keep on not converting (shrug).

Atlas shrugged too. It didn’t change a thing.

 

[hopkins]

You can always go more than once.

Have you heard Ella Fitzgerald live?

 

[morricab]

Have you heard Ella Fitzgerald live?

Why does it have to be a specific person or group?

 

[morricab]

You know if the horse is thirsty and the water is not rubbish they always drink

Your implication is false sir…just plain false.

 

[Al M.]

Your implication is false sir…just plain false.

Boy, you're so serious.

 

[Al M.]

Atlas shrugged too. It didn’t change a thing.

About what?